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Indians living in US - misunderstood ? or misrepresented ?

vi kam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 117
This post here in this thread, got me to start a new one here
Let me start off by saying that i am an indian and am living in the US now.
Having said that, i visited India twice after coming to US, and found a "gap" developing between indians living in US and indians living in India. My intention here is to get both the points of view and try to discuss them. Hopefully at the end of this we will all be better off with an understanding of the other point of view.
With that said, I would urge everybody to share their ideas, whether they are from India or not, But if you have questions / issues like "castism in india" or "H1-B visa" or "Religious intolerence" etc, please take them to another thread, the intention of opening this thread is already declared. Lets deal with things one by one, and please keep this discussion "gentle-manly"
lets start.
This is a reply to Dilip and an invitation to him to start the discussion. Also dilip, please dont think that i am trying to attack you or any thing like that. I just want to understand your point of view.
The problem is when an INDIAN goes to western countries they change their thinking. Nothing wrong in it but they think they are always right.
The reason is :
The stay in the most powerful country and feel superior. That does mean that you have to bash citizens of poor countries. They are also human beings.

Why do you think they are superior ? Did you have any experiences like that, if so then it could have been that person who had superiority feeling , I dont know how can you generalize this.
Whenever they land IN india they start blasting people here forgetting that they had once stayed here. I would appreciate if they can do something.

What exactly do you mean here, and what are you expecting them to do ? Better still why do you expect them to do something or anything
Indians in US treat us like dirt but a white American treats us with respect. Thats a big difference. This is my opinion and my experience.

I dont know where you got this idea, can i ask you to share your experience, How many indians treated you like dirt ?

By Amitabh
" true that there is a certain degree of self-interest in their views but that is true even for Indians living in India. "
Dilip's reply
It is not certain degree.. i would say complete degree ..
It may because you are insecure, you think in that way.


Why do you think Amit is insucure, AFAIK he was just pointing out his view, how did you construe it to be his insecurity ?
[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: vi kam ]
[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: vi kam ]

Rome did not create a great empire by having meetings -- They did it by killing all those who opposed them
D Kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 10, 2003
Posts: 93
I want to answer your question right now, but have to catch a bus at 8:30PM IST.
I am going to my villege and will be back next week.
Till then, good bye.
vi kam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 117
Sure.. Have a good time. Although i doubt you can chug beer there.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
I havenot seen this in any of my frineds who came back to India even after 3-4 years ...
Might Dilip had some bad exp.
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
The problem is when an INDIAN goes to western countries they change their thinking.

Any person that moves a long way off and sees a different way to do things and goes home now knows there is a better way. Said person hopes to change the homeland to the better way.
Nothing wrong in it but they think they are always right.

People in this business are stubborn, that's what makes them succeed.
Rufus BugleWeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2002
Posts: 1551
Oh yeah! you need an award ...
Kevin Arnold
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Joined: Apr 30, 2003
Posts: 30
We notice that some (like Sriraj) are ready to disown their country of origin at the drop of a hat
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Kevin Arnold:
We notice that some (like Sriraj) are ready to disown their country of origin at the drop of a hat

You mis-interpreted him.
Sara Jahan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 20, 2003
Posts: 120
Originally posted by Kevin Arnold:
We notice that some (like Sriraj) are ready to disown their country of origin at the drop of a hat

Really! But his posts seem to give an abosolutely opposite impression.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
what is wrong! money is every thing. even laoo love money and fodder.

Originally posted by Kevin Arnold:
We notice that some (like Sriraj) are ready to disown their country of origin at the drop of a hat
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Kevin Arnold:
We notice that some (like Sriraj) are ready to disown their country of origin at the drop of a hat

Because he maybe has some more experience in the world than some of you that sometimes gives him a different perspective on issues? Because he is not blatantly anti-US? :roll: In any case that doesn't seem like a particularly fair statement, although I see it quickly gained support.
vi kam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 117
I would urge everybody to share their ideas, whether they are from India or not, But if you have questions / issues like "castism in india" or "H1-B visa" or "Religious intolerence" etc, please take them to another thread, the intention of opening this thread is already declared.

"Sriraj bashing" is included in the list of take them elsewhere list.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

Tell me honestly, if I complain, will it be removed? Do you think no one complained before?
My question is "did you complain" ??
How could you be so sure that someone has complained abt it already ??
I need the work to be done.
In my prev company, my project Manager was buliding his new house and he did not give a single penny for eletric connection.
No, he did not use any jack.
Throwing the garbage in the streat is for money???
Who throws it ??
How would you have taggled the dust problem?
I know Govt does not have money to provide concreate footpath. So I have to live with it till Govt has money to put concreate footpath. Which is long way to go.
It is easy to ask what you did to change the socity.
I dont talk about to change society.
I talk about myself, yourself, at individual level. If I have some problem then I will try to solve it. I wont assume that someone has already done it or wont give a try at all because I have thought that it is the way things are done here.
Even if people complain, 99% cases the proper authority don't take any action.
I will simply say its assumption.
Who do you think put electric lines when they are broken because of storm/rain.
Are you saying it is ok to ask bribe???
No, I am saying that its not his fault who is asking. Its the fault of the person who is giving. One can have any excuse for giving bribe. But the thing is one is also as much guility as much the person who is taking.
Take my words. Once try to say NO.
[Its my tried and tested.
If you are right no one can do anything.]
When I say its all about money, I mean you cant compare any rich country with poor[economically] country.
Comparision is done at the equal level.
OR what abt this .. let us compare India to Somaliya :confuse:
Economy of India is growing and I can only cross my fingers.
AW When did you start drinking Bislery Water?
No I also drink it.. [even I drink only packaged drinking water]
Point is but ther are people who dont drink it and drink the water which for you might be dirty. But people drink.
And I dont mind drinking that water also.
Actually I do drink that water when I go home/village.
And the problem lies here ...
I need the work to be done.
Everyone has its own excuse.
Do you think no one complained before?
We want someone else to do things for us.
OK, now let us have a laugh on us.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
My question is "did you complain" ??

I did complain to the people living there. I asked them how the hell do you live with this much dust in it. What do you expect? A guy from 10,000s of miles away should come there to make a simple complain to the authority? If some one say "Hey why are you eating sh*t when there are some fruits available?" and if you say "hey I know I am eating s**t. Why do you care?" well, yes I don't care.

How could you be so sure that someone has complained abt it already ??

So, you are saying no one would have complained it already? So, people are ready live in a filth? Buddy, you are saidly mistaken. There are some people already saw "the light" living in India.

In my prev company, my project Manager was buliding his new house and he did not give a single penny for eletric connection.
No, he did not use any jack.

How lucky he is. I am not that lucky. I went to a VO office for 2 times(2 continues days) and I didn't give any bribe. Every time I was asked to come tomorrow. Then when I talked to the clerk over there, he said the officer is expecting money. What do you want me to do? Yes, I could have refused in face and waiting for months to get the work to be done. I am the loser. Not him.

Throwing the garbage in the street is for money???
Who throws it ??

A foreigner purposely came to India to throw garbage.. :roll:

I know Govt does not have money to provide concreate footpath. So I have to live with it till Govt has money to put concreate footpath. Which is long way to go.

I am not talking about concrete steps or concrete road. I am talking about the tar road covered by the sand which should be removed time to time. That is not being done and now the half of the tar road is covered with sand.


I dont talk about to change society.
I talk about myself, yourself, at individual level.

I didn't throw garbage in the street. I didn't clean my shirt and pant packets and throw the unwanted papers in the street. I didn't piss and spit on the street.
Let me tell you what I couldn't do. I couldn't clean the street. I couldn't stop giving bribe. I couldn't slap the person who was pissing on the street.

If I have some problem then I will try to solve it. I wont assume that someone has already done it or wont give a try at all because I have thought that it is the way things are done here.

If I have some problem which I CAN SOLVE, I would have done it without complaining about it. So, is it wrong to expect a government and government servants to behave as they should be? Do I have have to go and clean the filth the others created?


Are you saying it is ok to ask bribe???
No, I am saying that its not his fault who is asking. Its the fault of the person who is giving. One can have any excuse for giving bribe. But the thing is one is also as much guility as much the person who is taking.

It is a typical chicken and egg question. Do you think I am REALLY HAPPY to give away my money just like that? Yea.. I am really happy and willing to give bribe money and I am giving an excuse to support it.


Take my words. Once try to say NO.
[Its my tried and tested.
If you are right no one can do anything.

LOL. I asked for realistic approach, not an ideal approach. Yes, I tried it and failed in big time (most cases). Did you successed in all the time without any failure? What do you do if you fail?

When I say its all about money, I mean you cant compare any rich country with poor[economically] country.

If you want to improve, you should compare you with better person. Not worse or worst. If you do compare it with worse, you would never improve.

Comparision is done at the equal level.

Like I said, If I want to improve, I would compare myself with better person and gauge where I stand and how to improve.

Economy of India is growing and I can only cross my fingers.

I do cross my fingers and I do proud of the current state of the Indian economy. But, If you talk to any economist, it could grow much faster than the current 5-6% if we do some change that includes the infrastructure and pollution and basic needs to people.

AW When did you start drinking Bislery Water?
No I also drink it.. [even I drink only packaged drinking water]
Point is but ther are people who dont drink it and drink the water which for you might be dirty. But people drink.
And I dont mind drinking that water also.
Actually I do drink that water when I go home/village.

It is a medical reason. Not because everything is bad in India. Acutally I drink filtered or boiled or Bislery Water when I go to India. Yes I was drinking water without doing all those things when I was in India before. So, why do I do it now? It is because of my health reason (and most NRIs do the same). So, what is wrong with NRIs health? Water quality in India is not up to the mark of water quality in the developed nations (Don't deny that just for the sack of discussion. Still people living in Chennai go for Bislery water for day to day use instead of corporation water. Water was coming brown when I was in India last Jan). When you are in India, your body develops resistance to the bacteria in that water. If you are not in India, that resistance level come down or it will not be there at all. So, what do you suggest to NRIs? I have heard the following typical stupid statement. "Didn't he drink the same water for 25 years. Now he is showing of his money". Do you want me to take a risk of getting sick and laying in bed for 10 days out of my 30 days vacation? (Talk to any Indian living in US or Eroupe).
The point it, I don't complain to people about water (But I did ask why the water coming brown. The given explaination was scary). Remember, it is the second biggest city in TamilNadu.

And the problem lies here ...
I need the work to be done.
Everyone has its own excuse.
Do you think no one complained before?
We want someone else to do things for us.

Again, is it wrong to expect the PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE to make a complain about it? Is it wrong to ask why there are so much dust in there?
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Even I drink mineral water (Aqua fina or kinely) Bislery has been banned.

Did you ever ask why you have to drink mineral water?

If you cant change something please do not use it.
Let me repharse the sentance.
"If you can't change something, please don't complain about it". That is what you guys are trying to convey.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

I have heard that people in US do not drink water they only drink beer and coke. My friend who stayed in US told this to me.
"If you can't change something, please don't complain about it".
This is for you not for me.
Originally posted by <Sankar Subbiah>:

Let me repharse the sentance.
"If you can't change something, please don't complain about it". That is what you guys are trying to convey.



Groovy
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Shankar
I dont care what you drink water or beer.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Banglore is improving as far as garbage collection is concerned. Remember when you stayed here you were one of those guys dumping garbage on road.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
I have heard that people in US do not drink water they only drink beer and coke. My friend who stayed in US told this to me.

I will ignore this stupid statement

"If you can't change something, please don't complain about it".
This is for you not for me.

It is directed to people who complain that includes me and lots of NRI and Resident Indians.
Yes it is not for you. Because you are ready to live in it without complaining about it. You are ready to pay money to get pure water instead of asking why you are getting a dirty water in the first place and why do you have to pay tax for that.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Banglore is improving as far as garbage collection is concerned. Remember when you stayed here you were one of those guys dumping garbage on road.

Yes I was. Now I know that it is wrong and stopped doing it and trying to convey that message to my fellow country men who are doing it without realizing their mistake.
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Dont forget You are taxed more in US than in India.
[edited to remove personal attack --JM] I dont have to tell that any more.
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

It is directed to people who complain that includes me and lots of NRI and Resident Indians.
Yes it is not for you. Because you are ready to live in it without complaining about it. You are ready to pay money to get pure water instead of asking why you are getting a dirty water in the first place and why do you have to pay tax for that.

[ July 18, 2003: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Even the moderators are not fair any more.
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by <Pradeep>:
Dont forget You are taxed more in US than in India.

How much more? And why not try it in India? In India, everyone pay tax directly or indirectly. Did anyone care to ask where the money goes and why you are not getting something which you suppose to?
Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944

Because he is not blatantly anti-US?

Not everyone is balatantly anti-US. Some of us are covertly anti-US
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Heck! I havn't even heard of the US. Am I a bigger sinner than the US hater?
Nirvan Sagar
Greenhorn

Joined: May 01, 2003
Posts: 26
Originally posted by vi kam:
This post here
This is a reply to Dilip and an invitation to him to start the discussion. Also dilip, please dont think that i am trying to attack you or any thing like that. I just want to understand your point of view.
[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: vi kam ]
[ July 17, 2003: Message edited by: vi kam ]

If this post is about understanding his point of view then why question him . It is pretty obvious about his line of thought from his posts and thats just it.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by <Sankar Subbiah>:

A guy from 10,000s of miles away should come there to make a simple complain to the authority?

Then a guy who has come from 10,000s of miles should not worry about guys who are living here.
f some one say "Hey why are you eating sh*t when there are some fruits available?"
good point: WHEN some fruits are available...
I am not talking about concrete steps or concrete road. I am talking about the tar road covered by the sand which should be removed time to time. That is not being done and now the half of the tar road is covered with sand.

From where this sand comes ?
At least in my case it comes from footpath which is not made of concrete.

It is a typical chicken and egg question. Do you think I am REALLY HAPPY to give away my money just like that? Yea.. I am really happy and willing to give bribe money and I am giving an excuse to support it.

Its simple fact, not a chicken-egg situation.
You are happy for giving away your money because you would be getting something else you wont give.
As I said everyone has excuses for giving bribes and they have their own excuses for taking it.
Did you successed in all the time without any failure? What do you do if you fail?

Great .. I have not failed.
simple example ... once I have to catch train and as reached station late I entered in train without ticket. When TTE came to check ticket, I asked him to make ticket with penality. He asked me some amount which too less than the actual penality and fare.
It was tempting... believe me it took me some moment and lot of courage to say NO. I paid more than what was he asking as bribe.
If you want to improve, you should compare you with better person.
Ah.. fequency mis-match...
I dont believe in comparisons.
I dont like comparing myself to anyone.
The same thing I apply on countries also.
Like individual man , all countries also have some unique traits, quality, background etc.
"If you can't change something, please don't complain about it".
I will say you are right.
I cant worry about hungry children of some country if I cant do anything.
Again, is it wrong to expect the PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE to make a complain about it? Is it wrong to ask why there are so much dust in there?

If you are coming for 30 days from 10,000s of miles and do not want to DO anything and only complain to the people not to the right authority.
I will say, it is wrong to complain.
Complain to the right authority if you cant change.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by <Sankar Subbiah>:

It is because of my health reason (and most NRIs do the same).

I, myself drinking packed water from last 3yrs. I go once/twice in a year to home.
I drink packed water here for the same reason you stated.
But when I am in home town I dont drink packed water.
In other thread, I read, a child came to India with mindset that if he drinks Indian milk, he would die.
Its all in the mind.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

I get it now.. If I can not change something, I shouldn't complain even if the other screw something which is rightfully belong to me also. If I question or complain, I will be told "shut the f**k off". I get it now.
So, whenever you see someone pissing, spitting on the street and throwing garbage, well, you can not change it, so you will take it in a good spirit and ignore it. Right?
I assume you would say the same thing to the "The week" article guy who is complaining about the bad drivers. Why don't you send your protest letter to that guy? :roll: Or is it reserved only for the Non-Resident Indians only (remember they are still "INDIANS" )?
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
You are happy for giving away your money because you would be getting something else you wont give

LOL. man, I think you have a crystal ball. How come you know something which I couldn't feel? Since you are saying, yea.. may be.. I might have been feeling happy when I gave away the money to that moran who took advantage of my situation and asked money which he suppose to do without asking money. I thought I was having "mad/angry" feeling at that time. Now I am clear.
And the TTR situation you told, yes I would have done the same thing If I encounter one. Because both option would solve my problem right away. It is easy to say you shouldn't have given the money at any situation. But until you encounter such a situtation, you wouldn't feel the pain. I wish you would never encounter it in your lifetime.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:


I, myself drinking packed water from last 3yrs. I go once/twice in a year to home.
I drink packed water here for the same reason you stated.
But when I am in home town I dont drink packed water.
In other thread, I read, a child came to India with mindset that if he drinks Indian milk, he would die.
Its all in the mind.

So, you are drinking packed water just because you have some mind set? what is that, may I ask? I am sorry, I am not getting what you are trying to point here..
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
So, you are drinking packed water just because you have some mind set?

Because we dont get clean drinking water.
I am not getting what you are trying to point here..
I am saying if you think that you will get sick after drinking the same water which another person can drink then you will sure get sick and other person wont get sick.
AW leave this apart...
LOL. man, I think you ..
When I said happy, it was not in litral sense.
if the other screw something which is rightfully belong to me also
who is stoping you form complaining .. when you want to change then only you will complain. right??
If dont want to change you wont complaint.
well, you can not change it, so you will take it in a good spirit and ignore it.
Have you ever said a person to not to spit. ??
I have said.
guy who is complaining about the bad drivers
He is complaining to change it. He wrote article to change..
If I can not change something, I shouldn't complain
I would like to re-phrase it.
If one wants to change something, then he should complain and complain to right authority.
AW good night..
vi kam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 117
I am going to my villege and will be back next week

You back yet Dude
Frank Silbermann
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Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1387
I remember reading of a Greek immigrant fifty years ago. Not a day went by that he didn't feel like a stranger in this country, a Greek among Americans. Finally, after ten years, he made enough money to retire in Greece. Once he got there, unfortunately, he discovered that he felt like a stranger -- an American among Greeks.
I know something of that dilemma; I suppose the only way to feel truly at home is among small groups of people with a similar background of experiences.
Of course, for those who stay in America, there children will likely feel very American. The challenge will be to permit them to learn from what it good about Americans, while keeping them from our foolish habits. (Unfortunately, it's the foolish behavior that is most fun, at least at first.)
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
I have heard that people in US do not drink water they only drink beer and coke. My friend who stayed in US told this to me.
They were wrong. The number one drink in the US is soda, followed by coffee, tap water, milk, bottled water.


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Anonymous
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Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by vi kam:

You back yet Dude

NOT YET..

I AM STUCK IN MY VILLEAGE.. WILL BE BACK AFTER 2-3 WEEKS
INTERNET IS VERY SLOW HERE AND COSTLY
 
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subject: Indians living in US - misunderstood ? or misrepresented ?