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divorce / quit

Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
I would like to know what makes a guy or gal to divorce his/her wife/husband or quit his/her girl friend/boy friend ??
Escp.,under what situation, common scenarios, discussions,..
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

Just what I'd like to know.
Escp. :roll:
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:
...

I went to Kaveri fishing camp after your suggestion...
Do you also need break
Andres Gonzalez
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 1561
infidelity...


I'm not going to be a Rock Star. I'm going to be a LEGEND! --Freddie Mercury
Angela Poynton
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:
I would like to know what makes a guy or gal to divorce his/her wife/husband or quit his/her girl friend/boy friend ??
Escp.,under what situation, common scenarios, discussions,..

There are so many potential answers to this it could become the largest ever thread on Javaranch.
However to put it simply I think an answer that rounds up all other answers is
"Many events and occurences may happen, but the decision tends to be made because it becomes clear that staying with that person would not make you or them happy"


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Angela Poynton:
"Many events and occurences may happen, but the decision tends to be made because it becomes clear that staying with that person would not make you or them happy"

How can same person with whom life seemed to be beautiful suddenly becomes unbearable ??
In case of arrange marriage I can think of it as they never meet each other before marriage but in case of love marriage sometimes it goes above my head
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

I went to Kaveri fishing camp after your suggestion...
Do you also need break

Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:

How can same person with whom life seemed to be beautiful suddenly becomes unbearable ??
In case of arrange marriage I can think of it as they never meet each other before marriage but in case of love marriage sometimes it goes above my head

That exactly what I want to know !..
I have seen people who had good relationship for 2+ or even 10 years then quit their relationship suddenly and says "that guy/gal is a mad or crook or ^&%%#". I agree with Angela but it would be helpful if we would itemize such events or occurrences so that we can be aware of it and avoid it in future. Because its hurts both of the partners eventhough they were able to find new partners in due course. In many cultures I can't able to understand how could a person can sleep(have sex) with more one gal/guy in his/her life. Is life is all about sex?
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Balaji Lognathan:
That exactly what I want to know !....In many cultures I can't able to understand how could a person can sleep(have sex) with more one gal/guy in his/her life. Is life is all about sex?

You need break Guru ..
or read "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus".
No I have not read it, neither I want to.
I am happy martian
Damien Howard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 456
The problem is that love is not scientific, it is an emotion, and a difficult one to understand at that.
I think that if two people are truely in love they will stay together. But many people who think they are in love learn later on that they are not. Some would say they once were, but fell out of love, in my opinion these people were never in love they just felt they were for one reason or another.
I can't prove all this, but I have a friend who is American of Pakistani descent who was "introduced" to his cousin in Pakistan. After a couple years of internet chatting they married. He says he loves her. I don't agree. He can not know her that well from internet chats. I believe he has fooled himself in thinking he does, because it is his culture to marry his cousin and his mother wanted it as such. They will stay together out of social custom not love. Those without this social custom, just divorce when they realize they are not in love as evidenced by the climbing divorce rate. (more than 50% last I heard).
This is a little off topic, but I believe marriage is a crock. It is nothing but a state sponsored piece of paper and it doesn't even bind since the state recognizes divorce as well. Two people can be more in love and treat each other better who are not married than a couple who is married. The paper means nothing. If my woman wants that paper, so be it I'll give it to her, but does it really change anything?
From what I have heard this is one reason for the high divorce rate. People think after marriage that everything will be all rosy, but they discover the only difference before and after marriage is a piece of paper. That and the spouse now owns 50% of what you have.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
The paper means nothing.

Actually it represents a commitment. But I believe you are referring to marriage under law. Religious marriage isn't technically the same as legal marriage, although those getting married in a religious ceremony in most cases get recognized under law as well.
Damien Howard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 456
Religious marriage isn't technically the same as legal marriage

Religous marriage is even more meaninghless as it provides nothing. At least legal marriages provide some legal benefits in case of divorce.
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

Some marriages are born to fail, some marriages are made to fail, and some marriages have failure thrust upon them.


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Bhau Mhatre
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
Originally posted by Damien Howard:

Religous marriage is even more meaninghless as it provides nothing.

Well, .........
(Multiple concepts intermixed and knocked down all in one swing. Don't know where to start from. Or even if I should)


-Mumbai cha Bhau
stara szkapa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 321
Originally posted by Damien Howard:

Religous marriage is even more meaninghless as it provides nothing

For the bride the most important is the ceremony. Whatever happens afterwards is not significant. Legal marrige provides nothing.
Maulin Vasavada
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 04, 2001
Posts: 1871
hi Ravish

in case of love marriage sometimes it goes above my head

here v r assuming 'love' to be 'eternal' and thats why v wonder y shd it fail?
lot of the feelings r contextual and dependent upon expecations and needs (mental+physical). thats the reason- relations for long ends up breaking w/o aparent reason to anybody else.
as soon as v stop expecting 'love' to b eternal and 'true' v might be able to convience ourselves about breakup. i don mean to mean those feelings r not true and its just needs, so plz save me from the holy war of those definitions.
regards
maulin
Damien Howard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 456
For the bride the most important is the ceremony. Whatever happens afterwards is not significant. Legal marrige provides nothing.

SS: In US it is the legal context that matters because if things don't work out it is the legal context that allows the woman to get 50% of everything you own and 100% of your manhood.
The religous context holds no weight here. Even if you have the religous ceremonies, in the eyes of the state you are still nothing until you get the paper signed.
stara szkapa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 27, 2003
Posts: 321
You are absolutely correct. I�m just trying to think like a woman.
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
DH: ...I believe marriage is a crock. It is nothing but a state sponsored piece of paper and it doesn't even bind since the state recognizes divorce as well. Two people can be more in love and treat each other better who are not married than a couple who is married. The paper means nothing. If my woman wants that paper, so be it I'll give it to her, but does it really change anything?
From what I have heard this is one reason for the high divorce rate. People think after marriage that everything will be all rosy, but they discover the only difference before and after marriage is a piece of paper. That and the spouse now owns 50% of what you have.

Hmmm, Sounds like a single guy... IMO, there is a HUGE difference between being married and even living with the woman you are engaged to marry. I obviously became much more serious after I got engaged and moved in with my woman but I could really feel a difference after being married. (And I was totally legit before and after getting engaged.) I went around telling my buddies that I was very serious and nothing would change, but something did. Maybe there are different degrees of reality - it took me by surprise. I think the same goes when, let's say, a grandparent dies, who was quite sick. Although we knew it was coming soon, we just couldn't get sad until it REALLY happened.
As for LOVE, well... everyone is a licensed expert. :roll: Think of this: guys who beat their wives will say they 'loved' them. Parents who abuse their children say they 'love' them. Stalkers say they 'love' their prey. Women in abusive relationships say they 'love' their men. Children who are abused sometimes say they 'love' their parents. Some men who get totally cheated and emotionally abused will say they 'love' their women. Some folks who do nothing but complain say they 'love' their mates. And of course, last but not least, very healthy people use the word love to describe their relationships. I read one time where a wise Eastern Sage said: Love is when you do not see your loved one as "culturally different" any more...
-----
IMO, there are healthier forms are love that are respectful, honorable, non-toxic, and enable both parties to mutually benefit and grow. Good love doesn't hurt a person, and it certainly never destroys. As good as it may be it is not easy to have a good loving relationship as it requires a lot of work and maintainance. Marriages that are filled with this kind of love would probably have a ~better~ chance of success, although because we throw imperfect humans into the mix, there's never a guarantee on anything.

ME and some marriages have failure thrust upon them.
I know. Apparently marriages in which a child dies have a 70% chance of failing. (Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh oohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! - there's nothing like starting off on the right foot. ) We got married in Sept, my wife got preggers two weeks after the wedding. I lost my job, she lost her job, she went in hospital three different times, then delivered early, fainted & chipped her front teeth, got blood clots in both legs and then our baby died. Now we are privleged members of that category and... we have a real little angel. Now that the smoke has cleared we do laugh about our first year b/c what else is there to do??? It's laughable, so you have to... In some ways I'm glad I found out about the 70% percent stuff because I believe it made us adamant about not becoming a sad statistic. I must admit though I was pretty damn scared back in April. It's a grim statistic.
Man, come to think of it, I am going to be so fu**ing happy when I get to our first anniversary!! Maybe we should do another honeymoon and pretend it never happened. Year-2 has got to get better than this!!
originally posted back in July by Map when she was dissin' one of my stories about my wife:
If I can discuss my boyfriend/husband/partner/whatever with other women and laugh, this means I feel closer to them than to him, and this means there is no love. Probably Ok for transitory relationship, otherwise...

Naaaaaa, Naaaaaaaaaaaa [...otherwise I'm in that 30% grouping WHOOOO-HOOOOOOOO!! ]
---------
I'll say this: these are some things that can help a marriage: good, healthy family ties, good solid friends, family role models, shared values, family & peer pressure, a stiff upper lip, a shared Sense of humor, (it can really take some edge off the turmoil), a deep caring respect for one another, an understanding that we are different beings, various ways to blow off steam, lots of luck, and a serious committment to nurture and nourish the relationship.
Damien, I can't speak for everyone, but I did find the 'piece of paper' to be very important. For me it made it legit. That is why so many cultures have rituals, isn't it? If you make it valuable, it may turn out to be valuable...
MD was valuable too during those dark days!!
Sometimes, I guess you use whatever you can get your hands on.


"No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does."
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
In all societies marriage has originally been about the transfer of property and creating a unit of mutual support etc. Marriage for purely romantic reasons is fairly new historically.
Since western society puts an emphasis on personal feelings and freedom of choice, and nowadays a family is not necessary to support oneself (decent wages, service based industry, state help etc), romance has become the defining factor in marriage (with class, race etc playing its part too). The focus on partnerships has shifted from stability/support for its own sake towards happiness.
If you become unhappy within a relationship you can breakup more easily, whereas in the past people would have had to accept their situation. There are more choices, although relative independence of the partners, the desire to maintain a lifestyle and having children will affect how you use those choices.
Personally I used to think marraige was just crock too, but now I think that I would like to marry at some point. Its still an important symbol of committment I think. I've been in love lots of times but the trick is finding someone you love AND can live with. These are not the same thing IMO, not even close. In that respect I've only ever met one person I've ever actually wanted to marry in all my 30 long years (no hope now for an old bastard like me, I'm on the heap .)
Damien Howard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 456
Wow, John. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I hope things are better for you in your 2nd year of marriage.
John Dunn
slicker
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2003
Posts: 1108
Wow, John. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. I hope things are better for you in your 2nd year of marriage. Thank you - they will be.
Believe it or not, we were blessed in many ways. My wife could have died or had a stroke from those two blood clots, she almost had a hysterectomy during surgery, the baby could have been a still birth, or we could have taken care of a sick child for years. So fu** it We got to meet our daughter and sometimes you just gotta take whatever you get.
The wife's smiling now, I'm smiling and maybe tomorrow we'll know if we are starting round two - (if my boys are good swimmers, that is.) I'm not suppose to tell, but damned if I can keep that kind of secret for 10 WEEKS!!! I'll definitely be telling a couple of my best good-time buddies, (with a nod and a wink). They helped me big-time, so they deserve it.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Religious marriage isn't technically the same as legal marriage,.

Very true.
Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Marriage for purely romantic reasons is fairly new historically.

I beg to differ. You can find 100s of stories(Mythological/old* litreature) were reason for marriage is love[purely romantic].
*old = more than 2000 yrs old.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
It is nothing but a state sponsored piece of paper ..

Hi Damien
What about marriages where there is no proof of marriage ??
No paper, nothing can prove that you are married except you and your wife [or include some close relatives also] says that they are married.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Maulin Vasavada:

here v r assuming 'love' to be 'eternal' and thats why v wonder y shd it fail?
lot of the feelings r contextual and dependent upon expecations and needs (mental+physical). thats the reason- relations for long ends up breaking w/o aparent reason to anybody else.

When I said love-marriage, my point was that both individuals know each other before marriage and decided to stay together. In love marriage, marriage is not forced on you, you decided to get marry, marry to your choice.
And then suddenly after 5 yrs , you find that, hell its not the one I was looking for ... or the same person who was full filing your needs[mental + physical] suddenly you find that no, s/he is not able to full fill my needs.
Then what about those N yrs.. were they illusions or what ??
as soon as v stop expecting 'love' to b eternal and 'true'
Love or anything in this world are for some reason. It depends now on you how much you believe in your reason. Let the reason be lust or staying together or mental peace or property .
Maulin Vasavada
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 04, 2001
Posts: 1871
hi Ravish
the yrs spent together after deciding about marriage r not illusions i think but still "something" happens i guess which makes things change. that 'something' i have no idea nor i can think as i'm still single n free of any relations leading towards choosing a life partner... but i've seen such examples where things stopped working after considerable long time
regards
maulin
Richard Hawkes
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 1340
Originally posted by Ravish Kumar:
I beg to differ. You can find 100s of stories(Mythological/old* litreature) were reason for marriage is love[purely romantic].
They're stories though, an ideal-type or something to aspire to. I think the reality was different. Of course you might fall in love with someone you have to marry but there were many more important reasons for marriage in the past. Love wasn't the main reason.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
I think the reality was different...
..but there were many more important reasons for marriage in the past.

Can you shed some light on this, reasons for marriage in past and now there ??
I can tell you about India[in past and now also], marriages[upto 90%,now this trend is declining] depends on from horoscope to caste/familyName/Gotra/Guna to family reputation/history AND arranged by parents.
As per my little knowledge, in west both partner decides to marry, there is no force from family to marry.
Damien Howard
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 01, 2003
Posts: 456
Hi Ravish,
Without this prrof of marriage, are you really married or are you just living together telling everyone you are married? I can do that now with my gf if I wanted, but in reality we wouldn't be married would we?
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4347
    
    2

there is something in the US called common law marriage. i think it is if you have lived together a certain length of time. i dont know much about it. not sure how it is different from just living together.


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R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Damien Howard:
Hi Ravish,
Without this prrof of marriage, are you really married or are you just living together telling everyone you are married? I can do that now with my gf if I wanted, but in reality we wouldn't be married would we?

In Hindus there is no proof of marriage[at least on paper]. After marriage ceremony you are married and marriage ceremony does not involve use of any kind of paper.
are you really married
Yes, you are really married and you can get divorce also. Court wont ask you to first proof your marriage[not sure, wedding photographs are suppose to be proof in Court].
are you just living together
If you are living together then [98%] you are married. No one will ask you to prove it.
[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Ravish Kumar ]
Carlisia Campos
sanitation engineer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 22, 2001
Posts: 135
I would like to know what makes a guy or gal to divorce his/her wife/husband or quit his/her girl friend/boy friend ??

You partner becomes a Republican.
[ August 14, 2003: Message edited by: Carlisia Campos ]

Carlisia Campos<br />--------------------------------<br />i blog here: carlisia.com
Randall Twede
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2000
Posts: 4347
    
    2

ravish,

If you are living together then [98%] you are married. No one will ask you to prove it.

as an american man never married i still kind of like the sound of that. except for tax situation..then maybe that would be a terrible thing. like because one has good income other gets denied finacial aid to go to college or whatever
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: divorce / quit