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its TP again ...

R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Again TP prompted me to start this thread.
As per my knowledge [which everyone knows is very little and still I am in the process of acquiring more and more ..] Thanksgiving is not religious festival.
While writing this post I read 5-6 links [Even one was .horrifying]about history of Thanksgiving Day but none claimed it to be religious or had any link with Bible.
Even it is called Harvet festival at some places.
And Harvest festivals are celebrated all over world in some or other way.
Now its open for all to discuss the History of Thanksgiving Day


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
sunitha reghu
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Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Is onam a religious festival? Yes...?
Same logic applies for Thanksgiving also. Got it? If not shut down your pc and sleep.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Thanksgiving is not a harvest festival. The Pilgrims were members of a religious group that was despised in England and they fled to the colonies to escape relgious persecution. Although times were tought they survived and declared a religious holiday for the purpose of thanking God for their new home. The first official Thanksgiving holiday in the New World did not include Native Americans. The purpose of Thanksgiving is to give thanks (hence the name) to God for all the good things that we have. Although many think of it as a civil holiday for the purpose of eating a lot and watching football, one could argue that for many Christmas is simply a day to give presents.


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Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
..for many Christmas is simply a day to give presents.

What do you mean!? Now are you telling me that there's something more to it than just presents?
Well IMHO, Onam is a harvest festival, and later it might have acquired the religious reason behind it. On ancient days, inhabitants of Kerala region might have started celebrating those days when sun comes out at the end of months of monsoon (read wet, cold and hungry) and then when they could harvest their crops first time in that year, when they have load of surplus fool, they would naturally celebrate it! And the story of jealous Gods sending their most kind and generous local ruler underground (no, not that underground that we hear about these days) and him coming back to visit them during the harvest season, might have come to existence later, spreading from one small village to another over a number of decades.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
...and then when they could harvest their crops first time in that year, when they have load of surplus fool, they would naturally celebrate it!
You celebrate your surplus fool? We generally make him a manager!
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
What a great typo.
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Sigh. When re-asking a question in a new thread, is it necessary to completely disregard previous answers? Reposting my original answer:
How is Thanksgiving day a religous holiday?
It's not exclusively religious, but it's certainly got a hefty religious component to it. The very term "thanksgiving" is understood by most people in the US to mean giving thanks to God. This is fairly clear in various proclamations:
1676 Thanksgiving Proclamation
George Washington's 1789 Thanksgiving Proclamation
Abraham Lincoln's 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation
I couldn't find a good link for what exactly was said at the very first thnksgiving; quite possibly no one was taking detailed notes at the time. But they were Pilgrims, fer goshsakes - I think we can assume the mentioned God prominently while talking about what they were giving thanks for.
Of course plenty of other cultures have had harvest celebrations. Typically these would involve some degree of thanks or praying to one or more god(s) seen as important by the society in question - but also a certain amount of of generic "it's Miller time" celebration, having a big party to celebrate a good harvest. (Assuming of course that the harvest was good.)
Sure, many of the overt religious overtones of Thanksgiving are downplayed nowadays in schools and the like. But if the religious origins of the holiday aren't reasonably obvious to anyone schooled in the US, then I may have to reconsider my stance on separation of church & state somewhat. Promoting that level of ignorance in our schools isn't going to benefit anyone.


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Jim Yingst
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
[TP]: Thanksgiving is not a harvest festival.
Oh, sure it's a harvest festival; but it's not interchangeable with other harvest festivals. Harvest festival is a fairly generic term for holidays and festivals worldwide which are associated with celebrating the harvest in some way, usually thanking the culture's patron deity(-ies) for it. Thanksgiving certainly fits the bill.
Now in the US, there are plenty of other harvest festivals which are local community gatherings. These are generally less religious, more like big parties, compared to Thanksgiving. So when someone says "harvest festival" in the US, they probably are thinking of one of those, and Thanksgiving is something different. But in the larger worldwide sense of the term, Thanksgiving is one of many types of harvest festivals.
I've been referring specifically to the US notion of Thanksgiving. I know there's also a Thanksgiving in Canada, different date usually, but I'm not sure just how closely linked it is with the US version, so I'm just glossing over it here. If there are other countries with something they call thanksgiving, I can't say much aboutthem either. But if someone n the US says "Thanksgiving" they mean the US thanksgiving; that's what Tom and I and others have been talking about.
[RKS]: Who thinks its religious, for them let it be religious.
That's actually a fair description of how it's actually practiced in the US today. Many overt or specific references to religion are now avoided in the media, in order to avoid offending people. Which is also why it's hard to find good web sites that explictly say that Thanksgiving is about thanking God. (They certainly exist, but it may take a while to find them.) But there's no question that historically, the holiday was primarily religious in nature, (Christian, specifically) and it still is for most people who celebrate it.
[ October 16, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by sunitha raghu:
Is onam a religious festival? Yes...?

You need rest daaa .. or one meeting with me... I will soon meet you
[ October 16, 2003: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
You celebrate your surplus fool? We generally make him a manager!


Oh, cum ohn! Jast a tybo! You know what I meen!!
Paul Stevens
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Joined: May 17, 2001
Posts: 2823
It was still funny. And cum on isn't what you meant either. I will leave that one alone.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
And cum on isn't what you meant either. I will leave that one alone.

That WAS intentional! Who wouldn't know that??!!
 
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