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Do you use an IDE?

Chris Stewart
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 14, 2002
Posts: 184
If so, say which language and which IDE. I'm starting to feel like I should stop using JBuilder for Java. I feel like I'd learn more about the language and individual packages if I used UltraEdit and the cmd line compiler.
Java = JBuilder 6 Enterprise
.NET = VS.NET Professional
HTML/XHTML/CSS = UltraEdit
Michael Morris
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2002
Posts: 3451
I'm starting to feel like I should stop using JBuilder for Java. I feel like I'd learn more about the language and individual packages if I used UltraEdit and the cmd line compiler.
I would agree with that but many wouldn't. Of course I'm an old fart that started out using punch cards and moved up to vi on dumb terminals, so using the cmd line comes natuarlly for me. I use TextPad which has shortcuts to compile and execute Java apps. It also has syntax highlighting which can be customized to suit. I really do think you will learn more if you abandon the IDE for a while and later you can go back to using one if you wish.


Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction. - Ernst F. Schumacher
John Lee
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2001
Posts: 2545
i think it depends. yes, you will know better about the language w/o ide, but, some company use ide, so to apply for the positions there, you have to know the ide.
i am using editplus now, it is not a ide, just a tool convenient for ftp between computers. i guess nobody will have concern about forgetting ftp command.
Chris Stewart
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 14, 2002
Posts: 184
At the Java jobs I've had, I always used JBuilder. I know it quite well. I'm in college still and we're getting heavy into Swing. I feel like I might learn more if I try and use UltraEdit instead of JBuilder. With UltraEdit, I get text highlighting. I'll just have to use the cmd line for compiling and the online api for method calls.
Philip Shanks
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2002
Posts: 189
Sometimes I use the NetBeans IDE, sometimes I use jEdit, and sometimes I use a Win32 port of vi
Medium scale Java projects:
I use NetBeans when I have to manage more than just *.java files. Web applications typically have multiple Java packages, third party jars, properties files, perhaps a tld or two and the mandatory deployment descriptors.
I think the key benefit of a good IDE is Integration. File templates, code completion and keyword highlighting are nice conveniences (and are also found in most text editors), but integration with Ant, Tomcat, CVS and other third party modules provides the actual productivity gains. NetBeans has pretty good project management capability, and I like the HTTP monitor and database explorer too.
I just taught myself to write ant scripts in the last couple of days, using the integrated ant tool. I like being able to build my project, generate javadocs, package a war file and deploy to a test server with a simple right-click and select.
Checking Java and Perl code snippets and writing small projects:
Sometimes firing up NetBeans is just too much for those simpler jobs. I use jEdit for these, and I still get some convenient compiler integration and formating via the many steroidBeans that are available
I use the OpenPerl IDE for writing my Perl scripts. I get code highlighting and debugger integration with that. (It's just barely an IDE.)
Having written a fair amount of Fortran77, and my entire MS thesis (in nroff no less) in vi, I feel confident that I can adequately fill the role of text editor curmudgeon, but I like NetBeans, and will continue to keep the latest version in my virtual toolbox along with a variety of useful text editors. And I will always have a port of vi on any platform that I use, if for no other reason than to bug Windows weenies and spite Emacs users
[ May 31, 2003: Message edited by: Philip Shanks ]

Philip Shanks, SCJP - Castro Valley, CA
My boss never outsources or has lay-offs, and He's always hiring. I work for Jesus! Prepare your resume!
Manfred Mueller
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 18, 2002
Posts: 10
Yes, I do use an IDE: IntelliJ IDEA (which I first heard of in this forum). It saves me a lot of time offering code completion, reformatting and templates. Refactoring is a great feature, too. The navigation within program code is fantastic and debugging support doesn't slow down the system to a crawl.
Chris, you mentioned that there will be a lot of Swing to do for you and you want to learn as you are working - great! The IDEA won't keep you from worrying about your user interface layouts as it doesn't come with a GUI builder like JBuilder.
Have a try and keep having fun!
Amy Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 02, 2003
Posts: 280
I also use JBuilder - sometimes but have recently started to use JEdit and often use NotePad. I think you do get a better feel for things without the IDE.
In notepad or JEdit for example there is no automatic error checking like in JBuilder so you have to actually think about that you are typing and of course it always helps to be able to use the command line prompts.
There are also lots of benefits of not using JBuilder - in the later versions you have to create a project to even run a file but not so if you use an editor and then compile by command line. Also there are always numerous things to configure for each JBuilder project but once you have your JDK up and running it will (hopefully) stay that way.
Have a play around and if you don't like it you can always go back but I think you will see some benefits once you get used to the difference.
Manav Mitra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 01, 2003
Posts: 44
Originally posted by Chris Stewart:
If so, say which language and which IDE. I'm starting to feel like I should stop using JBuilder for Java. I feel like I'd learn more about the language and individual packages if I used UltraEdit and the cmd line compiler.

I agree with this, get yourself a Textpad. It's really good and free.
- Manav
John Hembree
hired gun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2003
Posts: 250

I don't use Java that heavily yet, so I don't need all of the power of the big ide's, so I use JCreator LE which is a small, fast loading ide. I can get in quick make the changes and compile from within the interface. It also includes syntax highlighting.
Jay Myers
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 04, 2003
Posts: 4
The best one i've found is JEdit. I belive its especially good for newbies to really learn the language without the assistance of a all-encompassing GUI. Besides, it's written in Java!
Brett Turner
Greenhorn

Joined: May 15, 2003
Posts: 6
I've found Eclipse to be very helpful. I did get a half hour demo on it at the start though.
www.eclipse.org
John Uhlig
Greenhorn

Joined: May 12, 2003
Posts: 13
I use an IDE at work, but it is for a proprietary language, written in the same language.
I am in the process of learning Java and have decided not to use an IDE, or even something that highlights text, until I pass the SCJP exam. Why? I am glad you asked The exam is not going to have things highlighted. I think it would be best not to get used to having highlighted/customized text and then have to go into the exam without that. I am brand new to Java though. It might be different if you have move experience.
John
Donald R. Cossitt
buckaroo
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 31, 2003
Posts: 401
I am using Scintilla text editor: SCiTE. It provides highlighting and keyword highlighting for about 40 different languages and compiles within the editor, line numbering, tab or space definitions and a host of other options. I have used JCreator LE, Eclipse and JBuilder, TextEditor, Notepad and Poseidon but at this point, as a beginner, do not like being distracted with being forced into workspaces, packages, etc. Just focusing on language. I do like JCreator LE though.


doco
Jim Pleger
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 04, 2003
Posts: 4
TextPad and UltraEdit are NOT free ... true, you can download them for free, but if you are honest, you are supposed to pay for them.
For Java, Eclipse is a VERY good IDE. It is truly free, too! And, since it is the foundation for IBM's WebSphere Development Studio, it will be good to know if you ever migrate to that.
Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve to Eclipse, but (FINALLY) there are a couple of books out there on it now:
Eclipse in Action by David Gallardo (Manning)
and
The Java Developer's Guide to Eclipse by Sherry Shavor (Addison Wesley).
I recommend the former; it's easier.
Give Eclipse a try; it's free and it's really cool! [ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Pleger ](Eclipse Homepage)
[ June 04, 2003: Message edited by: Jim Pleger ]
Suzanne Israel
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 23, 2002
Posts: 11
Originally posted by Jim Pleger:
For Java, Eclipse is a VERY good IDE. It is truly free, too! And, since it is the foundation for IBM's WebSphere Development Studio, it will be good to know if you ever migrate to that.
Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve to Eclipse, but (FINALLY) there are a couple of books out there on it now:
Eclipse in Action by David Gallardo (Manning)
and
The Java Developer's Guide to Eclipse by Sherry Shavor (Addison Wesley).
I recommend the former; it's easier.

Jim -
Thanks for the info regarding Eclipse.
For myself, I've been using Netbeans for some time, and I like it. I supplement Netbeans with UltraEdit (which is a great text editor and well worth the license fee).
Several co-workers are using Eclipse, though, and from what I can tell it offers a lot of extra features that aren't (as far as I know) available in Netbeans. However, I've not yet been able to work out how to configure Eclipse to suit my needs, and the learning curve has been what's held me back from using it. I will certainly check out the books you mentioned.
Suzanne
Gabor Ui
Greenhorn

Joined: May 23, 2003
Posts: 7
hi,
I prefer emacs. it is available for several paltform and you can really customize it for your needs. a developer can't imagine better ENVIRONMENT than emacs.
ok, I admit when I really started from beginning I felt it very hard. but come on, after I learned its philosophy I really felt like pushing 'turbo' button.
so, don't be shy and download it!
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9053
    
  12
I definitely think that you are depriving yourself of a good learning opportunity when you use JBuilder for GUI stuff. I also think that JBuilder GUI builders write bloated code and put in some propriatary stuff which means it is not as portable.


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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15300
    
    6

I mainly use JCreator for JAVA files. However, I have found myself using Visual Slick Edit more and more as I have gotten into Web Apps.
I use these 2 because they are still simple enough that there is not a lot of oerhead but they have code completion, syntax highlighting, and compile shortcuts within the Editor.
I have tried using Netbeans, Eclipse, JBuilder, JDeveloper, etc, but I find that I am spending too much time learning the IDE and not enough time getting things done.
I will say that if I ever did decide to take the time to learn an IDE it would probably be Netbeans.


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John Hembree
hired gun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2003
Posts: 250

Has any of the other JCreator fans played with JCreator Pro? Is it worth the upgrade from LE?
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15300
    
    6

Originally posted by John Hembree:
Has any of the other JCreator fans played with JCreator Pro? Is it worth the upgrade from LE?

I use Pro. Never used LE so don't really know. I would say just look at the feature difference and see if it has what you want/need.
John Hembree
hired gun
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 07, 2003
Posts: 250

I was wondering more from a practical application than just a feature list, but I will look at it. Thanks.
Marilyn de Queiroz
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 22, 2000
Posts: 9053
    
  12
moving to the IDE forum
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Do you use an IDE?