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I'd like a second opinion

miguel lisboa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 1281
i posted this exact text in sun's forums, but i'd like kind of a second opinion
BTW, this is my first post here, so hi everybody!
I really would like some advice from experienced members about this:
Where from i'm comming:
i'm diving in java (just for the fun of properly learning it) without any special programming background.
i can "use" php+Mysql or asp+access and develop a web application (not e-commerce) from there;
i clearly understand relational database stuff (normal forms, and so on);
but never seriously learned loops, arrays and stuff like that (just like adapted myself to using them).
So i decided learning oop - java actually.
And i'm enjoying it.
Till a certain point.
What i decided:
learn from B Eckel's Thinking in Java book (actually bought it)
Give an eye at sun' tut
pratice whenever possible
get help from this forum (edited: and from now on here too)
what's happening:
one time and another i get stuck at some subjects i find enormously boring, like clean up and initialization, shift operation and similar other boring stuff
(i admit these might even be very interesting, but since i'm following book methodology and till now i know nothing about oop - inheritance, polimorphism, interfaces (for what i'm here) i get bored)
and more: i suddenly read that one has to know arrays - so i jump to sun's tut and start reading about, and start trying to build classes to use it (and then my lack of knowleadge makes her appearence and makes me search for new how-tos...)
i guess (if you still here, i hope) you'r understanding the state of confusion i'm in...
i know i've the advantage of not having deadlines, as i run for myself, so, for last
what i want:
side note: everydoby would love to listen to words of encouragement, of course
so, considering:
0) i'm not looking for java in 20 minutes!
1) i've no teacher, classes or whatsoever and that i dont want to spend more money on more books (at least for now)
2) i would like to keep with my methodology of following one thing a time (i mean finishing TIJ)
2) my goals: learn java (nedless to say with pleasure, since the moment i get no fun i'll leave it) (yes, i know anything is achieved without one making firm efforts in geting it!)
3) i'm anxious to manipulate the promised java' s oop wonders and dont see the time when it arrives...
I'm finishing (lol):
what do you have to say to me?
1) urgently look for psychiatric help
2) go back to html
3) keep calm and learn the fundamentals of any programming language: time to real java will come
4) take some lessons on concise writing
5) other
thanks for your patience in reading this


java amateur
Peyton McCullough
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Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 31
What would you like to do in Java? What are you most interested in?
miguel lisboa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 1281
working with databases, at a first step, but in general i'd like to know the language, use oop and "feel" its aclaimed beauty
Peyton McCullough
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 31
JDBC is not too hard, but I don't suggest jumping into it right off the bat.
miguel lisboa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 1281
so you'r getting my point: i did try swing and some beguiners example on connecting to a mysql database and inputing outputing some things, but i do feel i gotta start from the beginning...
Peyton McCullough
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 07, 2004
Posts: 31
That's important. I think I myself jumped in some of the harder stuff before I got a grip on the basics. Just today I created the skeleton for a server that also connected with a MySQL database, but had a problem with the CLASSPATH.
If I were you I'd start with non-graphical command line stuff. Have fun though, Java really is a good language.
// :: Peyton
Jeff Langr
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 14, 2003
Posts: 762
Both the beauty and the devil lie in the details. Programming is a craft, to be worked with care and attention to all parts, no matter how unglamorous they may be. Just hacking away at the cool stuff will leave you feeling empty. ;-)
-J-


Books: Agile Java, Modern C++ Programming with TDD, Essential Java Style, Agile in a Flash. Contributor, Clean Code.
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
[miguel]: 4) take some lessons on concise writing
LOL at that one. Thanks...
[Jeff]: Just hacking away at the cool stuff will leave you feeling empty. ;-)
The goal is to create an army of Jimbots who take care of all the pesky details for me. I'm prepared to live with any residual feeling of emptiness I may feel after that.
[ February 08, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
miguel lisboa
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 08, 2004
Posts: 1281
Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
[QB][miguel]: 4) take some lessons on concise writing
LOL at that one. Thanks...
that was short
BTW tx for what?
Jim Yingst
Wanderer
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
LOL is Laughing Out Loud. I meant, thanks for making me laugh with that joke.
Ben Dover
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 91
Originally posted by miguel lisboa:
working with databases, at a first step, but in general i'd like to know the language, use oop and "feel" its aclaimed beauty

This will come in time. As you say, when stuck you do research, which is a good thing. Keep at it unti lyou do understand. But don't discount the so called "boring" stuff as you say, because much of Java's "acclaimed Beauty" starts with this boring stuff and you build your knowledge on that.
Antoine Waugh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 66
heyas!
the first language i learnt was c, and believe me, java is a treat compared to some other languages!
my suggestion, which worked for me:
i hate learning thing which seem to have no purpose or meaning (it sounds like your coming from the same belief)
therefore i did a google search for begginner programming tasks -maybe even in your book you will find some. These tasks can generally too be 'boring' so you should modify it to be something of which you may find puropse. even if its a program that simply renames all your digital camera images to a more meaningful name, through to a daily calender..
obviously with this comes the mandetory reading as well, however if you can see some purpose and application to what your reading it really does make more sense and purposeful.
also, as you have not fully ventured into programming before, may i suggest that you code everything. if there's a book example about defining an array, go to your compiler and make your own array etc. the most lacking part of many beginner's is their experience.
reading CAN be boring, but making it purposeful will hopefully bring it to be bearable

good luck, and dont bother looking for other forums.. once you come here you wont wanna leave
-twans!


B.C.S.T, SCJP, Hero
Philip Herzer
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 21, 2003
Posts: 21
I find programming different tasks or problems to be very helpful. What I've done for the past three months was to go on the net and find sample problems and also take the problems from the Deitel books and program them in C++ and Java. I've been able to master most of the fundamentals: control structures, writing functions, and arrays in C++ and Java this way. I hope that when I get into more advanced topics like polymorphimism, data abstraction, operartor overloading. Is the way I'm doing it a good way to master two things at once? I really want to learn C++ because I plan to do advanced studies in computational finance.
Now, it's just working on doing monte carlo simulation in C++ and Java


"Mejor morir de pie que vivir toda la vida arrodillas."<br /> Emilio Zapata
 
 
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