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Is Pakistan planning for another Kargil (War)?

Mehul Sanghvi
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Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134
Hey..!
I picked up the paper today morning and read the news that Musharaff is ready to award Indian prime minister with "Nishan-e-Pakistan"!!!
And with all his other announcement over a period of last few weeks I think Pakistan is planning another Kargil!
What do you guys say?
Regards,
Mehul
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Actually I heard also this rumour.
And I think some big int'l politics is being played after this drama.
Regarding Kargil; no, Pakistan cant afford that but still if it does so then he will lose little support what-so-ever he gets from int'l community.
And AW Pakistan is not a threat to India except that it will cause economic loss for 1-2 months.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Mehul Sanghvi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134
Pakistan cant afford that but still if it does so then he will lose little support what-so-ever he gets from int'l community.

After Iraq, does international community's support matter!! America has made a farce out of UN/Int'l community.
Pakistan is not a threat to India except that it will cause economic loss for 1-2 months.

I definately agree but it would be 1-2 yrs. More than Pakistan, I think India has more threat from its own politicians. This bunch can actually put ANYTHING on stake for their own political games!
I seriously think its about time we have one Musharff/Bush in India!
Regards.
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
After Iraq, does international community's support matter!! America has made a farce out of UN/Int'l community.
Actually, the UN did that quite well on its own.
Joe
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Joe: Actually, the UN did that quite well on its own.

Like you said once, the best thing about opnion is that everyone has one.
Its your opnion or might be of those who support Iraq-War. But it is not a view of others.
Mehul: but it would be 1-2 yrs.
No, never. India cant afford war this long
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: R K Singh ]
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
As the saying goes, one's is only as good as their opponent.
So give it a break people! BBC puts it right - they starts of their military balance comparison between India and Pakistan by saying "Its more of an in-balance than balance". India dominate in every aspect, and its just about time we ignore them. Pakistan, apart from their own highly 're-usable' 'extremist population' and 'good-cop' government controlling them for international community image, are totally sailing on what India says and does about them. We, India of a billion people and latest most successful economy (yeah, its about time, isn't it?) are doing the bill-board work for them by considering them as something of a threat.
Try ignoring them for a change, everyone else will ignore them too! Well, their frustration might come out as violence across the boarder, but I have no doubt that a fraction of our GDP is more than enough to snub that. Its about time to quit buying decommissioned/refurbished Russian tanks and aircraft carriers, its time to do things on our own. Lets look at China, lets look at the USA, UK, Germany, France or Japan and start comparing us against them! It may look like a long way to, but IMO, its a step in the right direction.
I wish our President (and media) takes a firm stand on this! Yeah, I wish we had a slightly more arrogant and less-gentleman like President, more media-savvy public and more aggressive media, at least to get things going.


[ flickr ]
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
As the saying goes, one's is only as good as their opponent.

well said.
Mehul Sanghvi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134
R K Sing : No, never. India cant afford war this long

By 1-2 yrs I didnt mean the time war would continue. But that would be the time that India would take to come out of the economic losses for a war which wouldnt even last for more than 15 days if declared fully!
I definately agree with Ashok with rgds to oppenents. But I dont think ignoring them will solve the problem. Infact all these years we have been doing that and thats the only reason that it has grown to this proportion. If we had taken strict corrective action right in the begining nothing of this sort would have happened. I think we are repeating the same mistake with North East!
Regards.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

India of a billion people and latest most successful economy (yeah, its about time, isn't it?)

YOU MUST BE JOKING..The water supply is pathetic here.. I dont have a single drop of water in my house sinec two days.
Traffic is horrible.. Every day we hear some new scam surfaces --stamp, CAT etc.. you call that a sucessful economy
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

Groovy
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

you call that a sucessful economy

Yes! And I am not alone.
Well, if you ask me, bigger the scams (more media focus, more people named and shamed, more dirt dug up and more awareness), better for the economy!
PS: Average speed of Rush hour traffic in major cities around the world (London & Tokyo for example) is about 4 miles per hour. (read this somewhere, correct me if I am wrong). Do you think that makes them poor/bad economies?
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Well, if you ask me, bigger the scams (more media focus, more people named and shamed, more dirt dug up and more awareness), better for the economy!

What is the use? No one gets punished .. all are (will be)acquitted by the court..Politicians, film stars , police official, govt officials are involved in scams and they never get punished.
In Chattisgarh, both the congress and BJP are corrupt..it is likely that Congress will win and a person involved in forgery scam will get reelected as CM.
What do you think Mash?
Devesh H Rao
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Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 687

Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

I wish our President (and media) takes a firm stand on this! Yeah, I wish we had a slightly more arrogant and less-gentleman like President , more media-savvy public and more aggressive media, at least to get things going.

I think u meant the prime minister....
The president is a figure head in our country, the prime minister�s post is where all the power lies.
But A.P.J. Kalam is not doing a bad job either with his numerous visits to schools and colleges thru out the country he is inspiring the new generation to live and give back to the mother land
Mehul Sanghvi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 04, 2002
Posts: 134
Originally posted by Devesh H Rao:
The president is a figure head in our country, the prime minister�s post is where all the power lies.

President in India has more constitutional rights then the Prime minister. It is just that right from begining they have not been using that power.
Just like judicial system in India have more constitutional power over the administrative system.
But I agree that its about time President/Primeminister would take a strong stand on things.
Regards.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

you call that a sucessful economy

This is transition state babe ..
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Originally posted by R K Singh:

This is transition state babe ..

I dont agree.
Avi Nash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2003
Posts: 69
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

Well, if you ask me, bigger the scams (more media focus, more people named and shamed, more dirt dug up and more awareness), better for the economy!

Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Stamp paper scam is horrible.Previous scams used to occur only in one state .But this scam ranges in as many as 9 states.IPS officers/ministers accepted as large as $2,4000 each as bribe from stamp 'magnet' Telgi.But there is a 'feel good factor' that atleast they are exposed by media.Be it Bangaru, Judeo,Telgi or Sharma.If this investigative team is really honest,it will arrest Home minister Bhujbal and others.


MH
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
I don't think Musharraff will do that.First desipte of supporting terrorism(freedom for Kashmir) and supporting Osama, Parvez has been successful in managing world diplomats.Paksitan has definitely a better image than it used to have 3 years back.Although he has military background,he seems to democratic as far as freedom of common Pakistani or freedom of Media is concerned.Another Kargil war will tarnish his country's and his image.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Devesh,
I meant President, not Prime Minster. I do agree Prime Minister holds the power to resubmit proposals vetoed by President, and I don�t know what the constitution says, but in past President was supposed to approve it the third time around or so. So, in a sense, Prime Minister with the help of his ministers can undermine President�s decision.
But, I was looking at President exactly as the same sense as you meant APJ Kalam doing well now. After all, he is the head of state and IMO, getting some one like APJ Kalam itself shows signs of change in India. You could say he was nominated because BJP wanted to bring a pro-Islam image, but the truth is, BJP didn�t do that for nothing � they were compelled to do that by India as a whole! And him winning with out any major opposition (which is quite an achievement, considering that it requires support from all these rival national parties and their support), in itself is a sign of changing India. Charismatic people in that role, can inspire Indians in all fields, including investigative journalists like that of Tehelka, and may be � may be � next time around, they would get more support and succeed in reducing corruption.
Pradeep, IMHO, its now a matter of time and sustaining the grown rate that we have now. If you look at states like Punjab, Kerala etc, you can definitely notice how even politicians have evolved to fit the modern and progressive thinking society and how they have stopped cashing in on religious, cast or language sentiments. Its about money, Pradeep, about growth, literacy and a lot more. Improvement in any one of these areas, in a democratic system like ours (unlike middle eastern countries, who are all rich, but under a king or price), will affect and improve the rest many fold, and I personally believe we are doing well, leaving 50 bad years back, we are heading in the right direction.
PS: Well, call me a dreamer, but I like to believe it that way!
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

If this investigative team is really honest,it will arrest Home minister Bhujbal and others.

..and the court will release them
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

If you look at states like Punjab, Kerala etc, you can definitely notice how even politicians have evolved to fit the modern and progressive thinking society and how they have stopped cashing in on religious, cast or language sentiments.


.. and just yesterday ex Punjab CM was arrested for corruption
Dont be fooled by media reports onm economic growth , they are all crap.
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Mash,
You also talked about democracy.. I feel that it is useless.. because the people who occupy high positions are all corrupt elected by democracy..
To register a new vechicle people have to pay bribe.. nothing works in government offices without bribe..
Anonymous
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Posts: 18944
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


.. and just yesterday ex Punjab CM was arrested for corruption
Dont be fooled by media reports onm economic growth , they are all crap.
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

The problems you see is not the problem of the Politicians alone. A socity is like a human body. If all the parts in our body do their alotted job properly, we won't have any problem. Happy to hear that you didn't accept what you are getting. IMHO, that is the first sign of India's progress.
Anyway, the following 2 sites might cheer you up..
http://www.goodnewsindia.com/
A Nation on the march -- http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002375;p=1
There are lots of postive news about India. Let us be proud of it. Yes, Elephant has just woken up..
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Happy to hear that you didn't accept what you are getting

I also hate dust and sand that enters my house every day.
I havent got water supply for 2 days.. If I dont get it today as well
[ December 03, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Well, Punjab CM was arrested, was he not? Thats the point - see, system is working, and its working well.
Well, in your analogy, the forest fire in California makes the US economy a a very bad one! Between, I took my driving license, registered my scooter later my brother registered his bike, my dad his car, my brother his new car between 1991 and 2003, never paid a paisa as bribe, no one asked for it either! Its changing Pradeep, you just do your part soldier, we will be alright!
(PS: I knew I shouldn't have bluffed, I wasn't too sure about other places except Kerala, but I needed some other state to add weight to my arguement, so I added Punjab there. What did I know about Punjab CM! Bad timing I suppose! )
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Oh, an 'ex-punjab CM' was arrested, right? And you are saying thats wrong!? :roll: You are saying that show how incompetent our system is? :roll:
I think you need to take a break, go away to Lakshadweep or something for a Christmas!
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by R K Singh:
Like you said once, the best thing about opnion is that everyone has one.
Its your opnion or might be of those who support Iraq-War. But it is not a view of others.

And then again, some opinions are informed ones, and some aren't.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

I think you need to take a break, go away to Lakshadweep or something for a Christmas!

Sure! Why not Please pass me some dollars.. all my money has gone to corrupt politicians
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Oh, an 'ex-punjab CM' was arrested, right? And you are saying thats wrong!?

You must have have forgotten Laloo. He is out of jail. Please come out of your Thanks giving holiday .
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Mash,
Talking about Kerala what about ex-CM Karunakaran ... he was corrupt as well .. could possibly become future CM if he is able to split the Congress with the support of opposition
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
Between, I took my driving license, registered my scooter later my brother registered his bike, my dad his car, my brother his new car between 1991 and 2003, never paid a paisa as bribe, no one asked for it either! Its changing Pradeep, you just do your part soldier, we will be alright!

I agree,some things are changing.But problem is with bigger fish i.e. politicians/Govt officers who have java.Math.pow(10,10) times more power than traffic cop.Stamp paper scams is more than rs 3000 crores!!.People are not directly affected by scams like these or Tehelka.We only blame only when we are directly affected by corruption.So we think things are changing.
Prakash Dwivedi
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Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

I havent got water supply for 2 days.. If I dont get it today as well

By the way in which city do u live, i'll make sure that i dont get posting there .


Prakash Dwivedi (SCJP2, SCWCD, SCBCD)
"Failure is not when you fall down, Its only when you don't get up again"
Prakash Dwivedi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 452
what if some how war takes place:
Pak army decides to launch a Nuke-missile towards India... They don't need any permission from their government, and promptly launch the missile.
Indian technology is highly advanced. In less than 8 seconds, Indian army detects it and decides to launch a missile in retribution. But they need permission from The Government of India. They submit their request to the Indian President.
The President forwards it to the Cabinet. The Prime Minister calls an emergency Lok Sabha (i.e., LS) session. After three days, when the LS meets, due to several walkouts and severe protest by the opposition, it gets adjourned indefinitely. The President asks for a quick decision.
In the meantime, the Pak missile failed to take off due to unknown reasons. Their attempts for a relaunch are still on.
Meanwhile, the Indian ruling party is reduced to minority because a party, giving outside support, withdraws support. Therefore, its first task is now to get majority. The President asks the PM to prove majority within a week.
Meanwhile, an external affairs spokesman requests Pak for some bilateral talks, at the secretary and minister levels.
Next week, as the ruling party was not able to get confidence vote, a caretaker government is installed. The acting PM decides to permit the armed forces to launch the Nuclear Missile. But the Election Commission says that a caretaker government cannot take such a decision because elections are at hand and this decision might affect the swing of votes in the election.
A PIL (Public Interest Litigation) is filed in the Supreme Court of India, alleging misuse of power by the Election commission. The Supreme Court comes to the rescue of the PM, and says the acting PM is authorized to take this decision, in the interests of the nation.
In between, one of the Pak missiles successfully took off, but it fell 367 miles away from the target on a government building at 11:00 AM. But there were no casualties since no employee had reached the office by then.
In any case, the nuclear core of missile had detached some where in flight.
Pakistan army is now trying to get better technologies from China and USA.
US condemns the use of a nuclear missile by Pakistan, and offers to send its seventh fleet in Indian Ocean. The Indian government, wary of the move, declines. The Indian government finally decides to launch a nuclear missile, after convening an all party meeting. This time all the parties agree.
It's three months since the army had sought permission. But this time, some "pro-humanity", "anti-nuclear" activists come on road against the government's decision. Human chains are being made in CA, LA and Washington for peace. Many E-mails are sent to Indians condemning the government and mentioning "Please forward it to as many Indians as possible."
On the Pakistan side, the missiles keep failing. Some time they fail to take-off, some time the payload gets detached from the missile during flight. Some missiles deviate from target due to technical failures or high-speed wind blowing over Rajasthan, these missiles are neutralized by Pak itself, as these missiles are now moving backwards towards Karachi. A missile (smuggled from USA) is used. Since Pakistan army is unable to understand its software, it hits its original destination: Russia. Russians successfully intercept the missile and in retaliation, launch a nuclear missile towards Islamabad. (Note: Russian missiles never fail.)
The missile hits the target and creates havoc. Pakistan cries for help. It asks for loans from the IMF and the World Bank. India expresses deep regrets for what had happened and sends in a million dollar worth of soaps.
So in the end, India never got to launch the missile. Pak never got it right and got themselves screwed. Indian Diplomacy at its best!
Conclusion reached by the DOD: Kashmir is now no longer a dangerous flashpoint, and they turn their attention towards Osama Bin Laden! And they lived happily ever after
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

By the way in which city do u live, i'll make sure that i dont get posting there .

You are talking as if you are my boss.
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Prakash Dwivedi, I remember reading it somewhere
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
Prakash Dwivedi, I remember reading it somewhere

That had come as some forwarded email.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
IMO, Pakis will again attempt another "adventure". Look at India's responses in the past. 10 years of continues cross border terrorism, nothing happend. We are still fighting the enemy inside our territory. Kargil happend. We still didn't cross the border. Parliment was attacked. We moved our troops and called it a "defensive move" and withdrew it after international pressure. Now, Pakis general (who was the mastermind of Kargil) is in power. After seeing all these spineless response from our politicians, what is going to stop them not to attempt another one? Yes, Indian armed forces are very capable of taking care of this "problem". But, final "go" should come from our politicians who only think about their home and property in Delhi and Mumbai, Chennai. I am sick of all those peace talks with Pakis. When does our policy makers going to say "Enough is enough" and deliver us "Poorna Vijay"? I hope it will come in my life time.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

You are talking as if you are my boss.

You may wanna read it again, Pradeep. Prakash said, he would try not to get a posting to that place for himself! Well, good that holidays are just around the corner, may be you will get a chance to unwind a bit!
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:

I also hate dust and sand that enters my house every day.

LOL.. My family is shifting their house soon, away from the main road.
Pradeep bhatt
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8904

Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

LOL.. My family is shifting their house soon, away from the main road.

Great! Your home page is giving me 404 error..looks like you have changes your home page address as well .. hehe
 
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subject: Is Pakistan planning for another Kargil (War)?