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Ayn Rand?

Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
One thing Eugene's posts do is cause me to take a moment to stretch my brain like silly putty, and see what areas are thin. Ayn Rand's commentary on the human condition and especially on education and learning is one area where I am seriously lacking, and yet I sense from my dabbling that hers was a unique and powerful voice.
If anybody has any strong feelings on Rand's philosphical views, positive or negative, I'd love to hear them.
Joe
Devesh H Rao
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Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 687

Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
One thing Eugene's posts do is cause me to take a moment to stretch my brain like silly putty, and see what areas are thin. Ayn Rand's commentary on the human condition and especially on education and learning is one area where I am seriously lacking, and yet I sense from my dabbling that hers was a unique and powerful voice.
If anybody has any strong feelings on Rand's philosphical views, positive or negative, I'd love to hear them.
Joe

Who is john galt ?
It never really grows onto u ...
its like u love it or hate it nothin in between (me by the way love it)
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
I liked the Howard, her only hero.


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Joe Pluta:
One thing Eugene's posts do is cause me to take a moment to stretch my brain like silly putty, and see what areas are thin. Ayn Rand's commentary on the human condition and especially on education and learning is one area where I am seriously lacking, and yet I sense from my dabbling that hers was a unique and powerful voice.
If anybody has any strong feelings on Rand's philosphical views, positive or negative, I'd love to hear them.
Joe

Ayn Rand put Locke and Aristotle's views in an updated format more accessible to the average educated person. She clearly gives a consistent philosophical basis for secular morality in general, and in particular, the morality of capitalism, and in politics through human rights. She was above all, a practical philospher, concerned with how philosophy impacted the current issues of our times. She wrote not for academics nor to impress them, but for the educated masses. She was/is of course hated by all academics and professional philosophers who specialize in such things as solving questions like, '"What is the meaning of "the"?'.
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20635
    ∞

I keep telling myself that I'm going to read fountainhead soon.
I saw a documentary on Rand and found her ideas interesting. I'm not sure if I would subscribe to them wholeheartedly, but I think they sound, at the least, provocative. I suspect that after reading fountainhead, I'll be glad I did.


permaculture Wood Burning Stoves 2.0 - 4-DVD set
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
I'm not sure if I would subscribe to them wholeheartedly
I'm rarely one to subscribe to anyone's ideas wholeheartedly . But, with the impending arrival of our son, the little bits I read on Rand's (dismal)view of our education system is enough to give me pause, and make me want to read more. I was just hoping not to hear that she was a complete crackpot, and the more I research the more I find she is not. The fact that professional academicians find her views unsettling is a positive note for me.
Joe
vasu maj
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Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 395
Fountainhead was one of the books which kept me thiking for years after I read it. But I think Atlas shrugged is a better work than it.

Vasu


What a wonderful world!
vasu maj
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Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 395

But, with the impending arrival of our son, the little bits I read on Rand's (dismal)view of our education system is enough to give me pause, and make me want to read more.

Little off track, but did you consider waldorf education model? I find Rudolf Steiner's views on education and biodynamic farming too good.

Vasu
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: vasu maj ]
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
But I think Atlas shrugged is a better work than it.
I agree. Compared to "Atlas Shrugged", "The Fountainhead" is just a child story. "Atlas Shrugged" came out after "The Fountainhead", of course, and you can see how Ayn Rand matured between the two books.
Joe Pluta
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Joined: Jun 23, 2003
Posts: 1376
I find Rudolf Steiner's views on education and biodynamic farming too good.
Thanks, Vasu! I am looking for all views on education, and I had never heard of Rudolf Steiner. My concern is that all references to Steiner that I can find paint his views as distinctly racist, and his Anthroposophy movement based on the concept of an intellectual elite. That's exactly the opposite of how I want to raise my child.
Joe
vasu maj
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Joined: Jul 12, 2001
Posts: 395
No no no.. Please don't rely on those references( most of them created by one disillusioned parent, I heard). Do your own reserach. If possible visit one of the waldorf schools. I am also a recent parent and have recently started my reserch on education ( just like you) although I still have time. I read some books about Rudolf Steiner , went and talked to teachers and parents, visited one of the farms developed on his principles. I have everything very positive everywhere. I think it is one of the best gifts that I am going to give my kids.

Good luck.

Vasu

Please do share your ideas/readings/findings on education. I also request other parents to add their experiences.
Thanks
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: vasu maj ]
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20635
    ∞

If somebody started a thread on biodynamic farming / permaculture / practical organic agriculture, I would probably not get any work done for a week ...
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Eugene Kononov:
But I think Atlas shrugged is a better work than it.
I agree. Compared to "Atlas Shrugged", "The Fountainhead" is just a child story. "Atlas Shrugged" came out after "The Fountainhead", of course, and you can see how Ayn Rand matured between the two books.

I found Fountainhead better than Atlas shrugged. Atlas Shrugged I found slightly "impractical" and slightly biased.
I think I am immature ..
Devesh H Rao
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Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 687

Originally posted by R K Singh:


I think I am immature ..

Do u spell that as I-M-Mature .....
i have read We the people, FountainHead and Atlas shrugged and cant really differentiate which i liked the best it has been a steady progression for her for shifting the focus from a society to a entity called human.
She started off with the disadvantages of community where performance is not recognized in We the people to the challenges faced by the individual in Fountainhead and finally rounded it off in Atlas shrugged where the individual gets back at the society which does not respect performance and supports mediocrity.
i kinda think the tree as different chapters of the same voice.
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by R K Singh:

I found Fountainhead better than Atlas shrugged. Atlas Shrugged I found slightly "impractical" and slightly biased.
I think I am immature ..


I would start with her non-fiction works first. Especially reccomended is her essay on the Rights of Man. I see her fiction books as just an elaboration of some of those key ideas found in such essays. Besides, the essays are at least 400 pages shorter (although much denser and requiring more thought).
Scotty Sinclair
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 26, 2003
Posts: 17
There is another type of school which places a higher importance on the child's psycological well-being. So although they also strive for academic excellence, they also try and show the child the place of knowledge, and also try and cultivate an appreciation for the whole of life. Here are some quotes.

With the very young what is most important is to help them to
free themselves from psychological pressures and problems.
Now the very young are being taught complicated intellectual
problems; their studies are becoming more and more technical;
they are given more and more abstract information; various
forms of knowledge are being imposed on their brains,
thus conditioning them right from childhood. Whereas what
we are concerned with is to help the very young to have no
psychological problems, to be free of fear, anxiety, cruelty, to
have care, generosity and affection. This is far more important
than the imposition of knowledge on their young minds. This
does not mean that the child should not learn to read, write
and so on, but the emphasis is on psychological freedom
instead of the acquisition of knowledge, though that is necessary.


Surely they must be centres of learning a way of life which is not based on pleasure, on self-centered activities, but on the understanding of correct action, the depth and beauty of relationship, and the sacredness of a religious life. (Krishnamurti 1981b) (Letter dated 15th October 1980)

These schools were founded by J. Krishnamurti a man who spent his whole life travelling, meeting and discussing with people the problems of living, and on living an intelligent life.
Oooh, I also found this link which I imagine would be of interest.
http://www.pathsoflearning.org/magazine.cfm
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by herb slocomb:
I would start with her non-fiction works first.

Now too late
I read Fountainhead in 1998 and Atlas Shrugged in 2002.
I think she wrote fiction novel for people like me, who want a bit of spice everywhere.
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20635
    ∞

I have now read both "Atlas Shrugged" and "The Fountainhead". Both are excellent. Both have some overlap of values, but I think there is a lot of new material in each also. AS has a more orwellian feel to it.

For a long time I had a hard time describing what these books were about - but recently it occurred to me: Integrity.
 
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