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Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis Sold Nuclear Secrets -- NYTimes

Terimaki Tojay
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Still US will not attack pakistan. Even though it seems to be as dangerous as Iraq if not more for US security.
Double standards anyone?
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Do you have a link that we can read?
The US will not attack Pakistan because it has the bomb. Do you really have a desire to see Indian cities in burning ruins?


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Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Do you have a link that we can read?

Did you even read the subject? It is the first headline on NYTimes today. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/22/international/asia/22STAN.html?hp
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The US will not attack Pakistan because it has the bomb. Do you really have a desire to see Indian cities in burning ruins?

Ah...since when did US start worrying about India??? And if US attacks Pakistans, why would Indian cities burn? Anyway, that's all hypothetical.
What I understand is that Pakistan is US puppet and US needs pakistan to do...i don't know what. May be that's why US doesn't even care about pakistan. Even though pakistan harbors so many terrorists, proliferate Nukes, US cannot even do as much as put sactions.
So either US has some hidden interest in Iraq (Oil?) or US adopts different standards for different countries for the same crime.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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What I understand is that Pakistan is US puppet
US puppet? I wish that were true!
US adopts different standards for different countries for the same crime.
It actually isn't the same crime. My understanding was that it wasn't the Pakistani government but certain people in the Pakastani government that passed on nuclear information. In any case, the US always adopts the practice of negotiating first. We negotiated with Saddam for 13 years before invading. The proof that negotiating from a position of strength works can be seen in Libya.
As to why Indian cities would burn, do you really think that the Pakistani government would do nothing against India if the US invaded? I would suspect that they might drop a A-bomb on a city in India and then threaten to drop more if we didn't withdraw.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Did you even read the subject? It is the first headline on NYTimes today.

It looks like all this happened several years ago and the new government is taking steps to prevent it from happening again. Why would we invade if that is the case?
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]
Ashok Mash
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Well, IMHO, Pakistan holding India as a 'hostage' to resist an American invasion is quite silly and really understates Indian defense forces by quite a big factor. Well, I totally agree compared to the state of art American defense technology, Indian forces are still in stone-age, but compared to that of Pakistan (most of which they acquired from China and elsewhere) India holds absolute superiority in any form of conventional or advanced warfare. Obviously, nukes are something else, and till date India does not have a missile-shield or something similar is operation, but Indian administration is working on that with Israel.
About America�s policy towards India and Pakistan, IMHO, was never �a double standard� per say, but just more like a series of short sighted decisions or rather result of their �fix-for-the-moment� attitude that has kept us Indians wondering about American interests in the subcontinent.
This is my own personal opinion, and I don�t claim it to be accurate � no offence meant to anyone.


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Steve Wink
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Still US will not attack pakistan. Even though it seems to be as dangerous as Iraq if not more for US security.
Double standards anyone?


Heres a link:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/3340367.stm
From this story, it appears that some of their scientists may have engaged in a bit of espionage.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
About America�s policy towards India and Pakistan, IMHO, was never �a double standard� per say, but just more like a series of short sighted decisions or rather result of their �fix-for-the-moment� attitude that has kept us Indians wondering about American interests in the subcontinent.
India made the big mistake of being pro-USSR during the Cold War. That caused the US to look for other friends in that part of the world. You can't blame us for being anti-India when India jumped in bed with our enemy!
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

It looks like all this happened several years ago and the new government is taking steps to prevent it from happening again. Why would we invade if that is the case?
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Thomas Paul ]


Because rest of the world want to be sure that Pakistan won't do it again. The WMD's won�t reach various terrorist organizations because Pakistani administration couldn't control their own scientists. To avoid having to send in weapons inspectors to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Egypt, North Korea, Indonasia and many other nations around the globe who would love to have new toys in their garage or on their shelves.
Or do you think USA�s future is in investigating and invading other nations around the globe, for rest of this century?
Terimaki Tojay
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Joined: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 165
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

It actually isn't the same crime.

Oh, I see...so harboring taliban, fomenting terrorism, acquiring and proliferating WMD are not the same crimes that Iraq commited. Ummm that's actually correct. US still is not able to prove any of these crimes by Iraq. Still US is after Iraq like anything.
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

My understanding was that it wasn't the Pakistani government but certain people in the Pakastani government that passed on nuclear information.

Come on Thomas. Don't act so naive. So you think their scientists got the know how from China and passed it on to NKorea, Iran, and god knows whome without tacit approval from the govt?
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

In any case, the US always adopts the practice of negotiating first. We negotiated with Saddam for 13 years before invading. The proof that negotiating from a position of strength works can be seen in Libya.

I hope that it works with Pakistan. But I am sure that I will not work with Pakistan. History is the proof.
Also, there is a a lot of different between Libya and Pakistan. Regarding negotiation with Saddam, I think it was a farce. Right before the war started, Saddam was open to WMD inspectors and they found nothing.
US had made up its mind on attacking Iraq. So I think it just made up stories about Iraq having WMD and created a paranoia.
(Just for the record, I have no soft corner for him. I am very happy for the people of Iraq that he is gone.)
And BTW, US has been hobnobbing with Pak since Jia Ulhaq days. That's more than 13 years ago.
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
India made the big mistake of being pro-USSR during the Cold War. That caused the US to look for other friends in that part of the world. You can't blame us for being anti-India when India jumped in bed with our enemy!

Not true. Before 20 Yr USSR treaty, India was very closely working with USA. Most of the Indian defence hardware was American.
India never wanted to join any camp. That's the reason India started NAM (Non-Alignment Movement). Alas, no body cared.
It was when America started delaying tactics in providing support to India on many issues such as military and support in the UN, that it warmed up to USSR.
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
India made the big mistake of being pro-USSR during the Cold War. That caused the US to look for other friends in that part of the world. You can't blame us for being anti-India when India jumped in bed with our enemy!

Its a bit like Chicken & Egg puzzle, I suppose!
I don't exactly know who decided to go with whom first, but I believe one of the reasons India tooks USSR's side was because they helped us when it mattered. They didn't help China, unlike USA, when we had issues with them. Neither did they move their navy fleet threatening India to quit a winning war against Pakistan. Well, I don't know who started it, but I would blame 'the cold war' for the whole situation!
The entire 'Afghan/Central-Asian' region, and related stories are well discussed here before, and as far as I understand, USA needed an ally to resist the Russians, in the Central Asian region, and they approached Pakistan, for the fact that they were a military dictatorship most of their 50 yrs since British, and were easily manipulative than the stronger democratic India. USA used the �easy-ally� Pakistan as their base in the region, trained, funded and equipped Afghan�s who eventually got rid of the Russians. But half the money pumped into Pakistan not-so-secretly went into funding their own anti-India interests, which was not a small pain for the hardworking and developing (poor) democracy like India. I can�t blame my fathers generation for hating America � starved Indians soldiers where bleeding to death wounded by the American-wheat-fed fat Pakistani soldiers and militants firing with the guns that they got from their American Bhais. There�s no denial to that fact!
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:

Not true. Before 20 Yr USSR treaty, India was very closely working with USA. Most of the Indian defence hardware was American.
India never wanted to join any camp. That's the reason India started NAM (Non-Alignment Movement). Alas, no body cared.
It was when America started delaying tactics in providing support to India on many issues such as military and support in the UN, that it warmed up to USSR.

Thanks Terimaki, I had no idea about this. Thanks again!
Paul McKenna
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You want to talk about double standards.. lets talk. Most of what you have said so far seems to be the same stuff coming from the "Hate-America" crowd. Which seems even stranger considering the fact that you are in America (kinda like biting the hand that feeds you..)
Sure enough US was unfair to India in the past etc.. but where is the Indian commitment today??? US wanted help today with Iraq.. no help yet from India. US wanted troops today from India.. no help yet. But US should invade and conquer Pakistan at the behest of India??? That seems like hypocrisy to me..
I'm sure you or someone else will bring up the argument of Afghanistan and how India offered to help during the 9/11 aftermath. But one has to understand that sometimes some people need to make a pact with the devil to get some good things done. I am by no means sympathetic to Pakistan or wish for its well being.. I'm simply fed up with this "Hate America" rhetoric..
If anyone hates america they should leave america!


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Pradeep bhatt
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If anyone hates america they should leave america


[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Pradeep Bhat ]

Groovy
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

Sure enough US was unfair to India in the past etc.. but where is the Indian commitment today??? US wanted help today with Iraq.. no help yet from India. US wanted troops today from India.. no help yet. But US should invade and conquer Pakistan at the behest of India??? That seems like hypocrisy to me..

Well, IMHO, India denied its forces to the Iraq situation based on more than one facts. I am sure not aware of all of them, but some of them are..
1. India wanted USA to get the whole Iraq thing approved by the UN. India didn't want any part in a war that�s not legal or that was not approved by the UN.
2. India with its massive firepower has been trying to get its voice heard in the Security Council for many decades in the past. Pakistan with their dozen men is in the Security council - obviously because of their spineless slavery to Americans, which India didn't or couldn't (being a democracy and all) - which is quite a disheartening situation to be. India is a sixth of the humanity, if you care to think for a second, and doesn't have a say in the Security council? Is that fare? India had to make it heard, even if it is by displeasing the only super-power - We mean business!
3. Most of the Indian forces were tied down to the Pakistan border or were tired after a months long stand off at the border.
If anyone hates america they should leave america!

I am not in America. Now does it make any difference? What you just said is the same rhetoric that I used to see printed in the cars and bikes of uneducated, uncivilized extremists in the streets of Chennai and Bombay - eg: 'Sinkara Chennai - love it or leave it'! WTF???
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
...

Your post is based on the premise that I hate US. I don't. At all. Please don't assume anything.
Paul McKenna
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
1. India wanted USA to get the whole Iraq thing approved by the UN. India didn't want any part in a war that�s not legal or that was not approved by the UN.

Oh Ok! Lets see how much India would like it if US suggested that lets get the whole invasion of Pakistan thing approved by UN. It would take decades and frankly it would never happen!! Thats how silly the UN argument is.. because UN never acts! It has become spineless, useless and a big burden on the rest of the world. If at all India took its argument to the UN the first thing they will say is "Lets impose sanctions".. and would then never follow up.
Pakistan with their dozen men is in the Security council - obviously because of their spineless slavery to Americans, which India didn't or couldn't (being a democracy and all) - which is quite a disheartening situation to be. India is a sixth of the humanity, if you care to think for a second, and doesn't have a say in the Security council? Is that fare? India had to make it heard, even if it is by displeasing the only super-power - We mean business!

OK! Time out.. this post tells me that you are not aware of the facts. Every nation gets to be a part of the security council on a rotaion basis. India's turn will soon be up.. so to answer your question.. Pakistan is not in the Security council at the wish of US.. its simply there because its a rotation seat. India can and will be a part of the Security council but it needs to show that it will take action when necessary. The Iraq situation showed otherwise..
3. Most of the Indian forces were tied down to the Pakistan border or were tired after a months long stand off at the border.

US did not ask for a million troops.. they asked for as much as possible. Even a meager 10000 would have shown our commitment.
I am not in America. Now does it make any difference? What you just said is the same rhetoric that I used to see printed in the cars and bikes of uneducated, uncivilized extremists in the streets of Chennai and Bombay - eg: 'Sinkara Chennai - love it or leave it'! WTF???

I am just fed up with people who make half-educated arguments about US. This is not directed at anyone personally.. but in general. Everyone talks about how the iraq war is for oil, money, power etc but they fail to illustrate with evidence. All available evidence shows otherwise. The US taxpayer is paying 87 BILLION dollars for the reconstruction of Iraq. Where is the Oil?? The "Hate America" crowd does not take these points into consideration..
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

The US taxpayer is paying 87 BILLION dollars for the reconstruction of Iraq. Where is the Oil?? The "Hate America" crowd does not take these points into consideration..

Ever wondered, why they are spending 87 BILLION dollars of their hard earned money??? What for? Charity??
There is no hate america crowd here. Please don't keep on harping on the same thing. We are all educated professionals. It is an issue based discussion. I don't hate anybody. If it pleases you, I'll post some topics that may seem to you like I hate India. But again, I don't.
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Terimaki Tojay ]
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Terimaki Tojay:
Ever wondered, why they are spending 87 BILLION dollars of their hard earned money??? What for? Charity??
It is our hope that the money will make the Middle East a safer place. If that happens then the money will have been well spent.
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
The US taxpayer is paying 87 BILLION dollars for the reconstruction of Iraq. Where is the Oil?? The "Hate America" crowd does not take these points into consideration..


I agree, it was a clear mistake that I thought Pakistan had a continuous position in the security council, and that if I had been more accurate on Indian position on the security council, what India is looking for is a permanent position, not a temporary one, and I think India deserves one.
Again, as mentioned many times before, labeling one as �anti-american� would probably be an easy route to take while debating certain issues, but I am NOT anti-american. I am not anti-many times that you might think I am, and if trying to point out what I believe XYZ got it wrong makes me �anti-XYZ� to you, well, I cant care less!
Anyway, discussing Oil and Anti-americanism would be thread-jacking here! Lets talk about Pakistan selling its stolen nuclear technology to rouge states, making world a less safer place and America pretending to be busy doing something else!
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
San Su
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
[QB]You want to talk about double standards.. lets talk. Most of what you have said so far seems to be the same stuff coming from the "Hate-America" crowd. Which seems even stranger considering the fact that you are in America (kinda like biting the hand that feeds you..)

hmm... In one thread, you say Indians don't hate america or Americans and they only dispute the american government decision, but on the other hand, you are directly accusing Indians of "Hate-America" crowd. Paul, that is sad. I don't deny that there are "Hate-America" crowd in India. They always blame the Americans for whatever happens in their life. Indian Commies are the leaders in that crowd. But some other people have genuine concern about American govt. action in our backward. Please understand that.
I wish that both great nations forget about their past and understand each others concern and become a good friends. Both can benefit from each other alot. It is happening and it is happening slowly.

Sure enough US was unfair to India in the past etc..

Did you forget the $3billion donation US made to Pakistan recently? Do you know what people (including Pakistanis) say about Pakistan? "Pakistan is surviving because of 3 'A's. Alla - Army - America". Even today, Pakistan is receiving Money and Military equipement from USA. I hope you would understand where the Money would go and how the Military equipement would be used. Yes, we didn't send our troops to Iraq to help US. But, we didn't deny the their request point blank. We took couple of months to look the pros-cons of sending the request. At the end, India backed off because of several reasons (FYI, I was in "Pro-Send troop" gang for sometime). In the defense forum I usually visit, most of the people were "Pro". They "Against" groups reasons were follows (some of them)
1. Several million NRIs living in Middle East. If something goes bad in Iraq, I don't need to say what would happen to all of them. Unlike USA, India would be a soft target to vent their anger.
2. We already have enough Muslim problems in India.
3. The lesson we learnt from SriLanka.


But US should invade and conquer Pakistan at the behest of India??? That seems like hypocrisy to me..

IMHO, if the USA stop helping Pakistan, that should be enough. India armed force is verymuch capable of taking care of it's enemy.
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Sankar Subbiah ]
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
And the oil! Ever thought why oil is so cheap in America? Don�t tell me just government subsidies and internal production makes oil a cheap as 20th of that of rest of the world!!!

The price for oil in Europe would be exactly the same as in the USA except that Europe has much higher taxes on oil. Canada is a perfect example. Canada is an exporter of oil and yet their gas prices are much more that what the US pays because of taxes.
Ashok Mash
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Originally posted by Thomas Paul:

The price for oil in Europe would be exactly the same as in the USA except that Europe has much higher taxes on oil. Canada is a perfect example. Canada is an exporter of oil and yet their gas prices are much more that what the US pays because of taxes.

Sorry Thomas, I edited my post about 10 seconds after posting it to remove that part that you quoted. I wanted to keep the discussion on the actual topic, than the much discussed America-Niddleeast-Oil-Greedy topic.
Thanks!
Paul Stevens
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Posts: 2823
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


I agree, it was a clear mistake that I thought Pakistan had a continuous position in the security council, and that if I had been more accurate on Indian position on the security council, what India is looking for is a permanent position, not a temporary one, and I think India deserves one.
Again, as mentioned many times before, labeling one as �anti-american� would probably be an easy route to take while debating certain issues, but I am NOT anti-american. I am not anti-many times that you might think I am, and if trying to point out what I believe XYZ got it wrong makes me �anti-XYZ� to you, well, I cant care less!
Anyway, discussing Oil and Anti-americanism would be thread-jacking here! Lets talk about Pakistan selling its stolen nuclear technology to rouge states, making world a less safer place and America pretending to be busy doing something else!
[ December 22, 2003: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]


Why does India deserve a permanent place on the security council?
San Su
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Originally posted by Paul Stevens:


Why does India deserve a permanent place on the security council?

Could you please tell me why do the other 5 deserve a permenant place in an International organization?
Paul McKenna
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Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:
hmm... In one thread, you say Indians don't hate america or Americans and they only dispute the american government decision, but on the other hand, you are directly accusing Indians of "Hate-America" crowd. Paul, that is sad. I don't deny that there are "Hate-America" crowd in India. They always blame the Americans for whatever happens in their life. Indian Commies are the leaders in that crowd. But some other people have genuine concern about American govt. action in our backward. Please understand that

Let me clarify something for you Shankar.. I am not blaming "Indian People".. I am an Indian myself. There are Americans who are a part of the "Hate America" crowd. I do agree that Indian communists are not acting in the best interest of the nation. I have seen your posts in the past and know that you are very well balanced but I get fed up with a lot of people who read one side of the news as presented in Times of India, New York Times, Washington Post, The Hindu etc... There is one Indian newspaper that gives a very balanced perspective and that is Indian Express. Their editorials have an excellend balance between pro and against war.

Did you forget the $3billion donation US made to Pakistan recently? Do you know what people (including Pakistanis) say about Pakistan? "Pakistan is surviving because of 3 'A's. Alla - Army - America". Even today, Pakistan is receiving Money and Military equipement from USA. I hope you would understand where the Money would go and how the Military equipement would be used. Yes, we didn't send our troops to Iraq to help US. But, we didn't deny the their request point blank. We took couple of months to look the pros-cons of sending the request. At the end, India backed off because of several reasons (FYI, I was in "Pro-Send troop" gang for sometime). In the defense forum I usually visit, most of the people were "Pro". They "Against" groups reasons were follows (some of them)
1. Several million NRIs living in Middle East. If something goes bad in Iraq, I don't need to say what would happen to all of them. Unlike USA, India would be a soft target to vent their anger.
2. We already have enough Muslim problems in India.
3. The lesson we learnt from SriLanka.

I am not at all denying the fact that US is helping Pakistan. But sometimes you have make a pact with the devil.. it is not something that can be avoided. But I see other side effects that help us - e.g. Musharraf willing to drop the plebiscite claim on Kashmir. I do admit that US does somethings which I totally dislike. I was totally against the Bush administration when they opposed unilateral action by India against Pakistan.. I strongly believe that India should attack and attack NOW!
Now getting to your problems.. here is what I feel about each of them
1.That is a bad excuse. Sure NRIs would be affected but that is only a temporary problem. If India had helped during the war.. many Indians would be getting employment during the reconstruction. Millions more than before the war
2.What is the solution to the muslim problem in India?? Appeasement?? Decades of pleasing the muslims has produced the problems we have today. Its time to stand up and let them know we wont tolerate anymore
3.Every failure is a stepping stone.. we have to learn from past mistakes but we shouldnt back off from our responsibilities. Sri Lanka wasnt exactly a failure.. IPKF captured Prabhakaran 3 times.. and released him. FOOLS!
San Su
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
I am not at all denying the fact that US is helping Pakistan. But sometimes you have make a pact with the devil.. it is not something that can be avoided. But I see other side effects that help us - e.g. Musharraf willing to drop the plebiscite claim on Kashmir. I do admit that US does somethings which I totally dislike. I was totally against the Bush administration when they opposed unilateral action by India against Pakistan.. I strongly believe that India should attack and attack NOW!

I call ToI -> Times of Islamabad, "The Hindu" -> "The Anti-Hindu". I always avoid both these newspapers. I think the Hindu is a commie newspaper.
Musharraf promised several things before. He is just talk-the-talk. No action were taken. Please remember that he is the mastermind of Kargil episode. I agree that US government is putting some pressure on him to control the Cross-border-terrorism. But, still the terriorists are roaming freely in that country and openly declaring war on America, Isreal and India.

1.That is a bad excuse. Sure NRIs would be affected but that is only a temporary problem. If India had helped during the war.. many Indians would be getting employment during the reconstruction. Millions more than before the war

..at the cost of how many Indian lifes? Paul, are you asking us to put several million Indians life in the line of fire to get few billion $? This is the main reason I backed off from the "Send troop" group. There were several benefit by sending the troops. International reach and recognization, learning valuable lessons from one of the best army in the world etc., But, IMHO, all these can be achieved without losing our citizens and solders life unnecessarily.

2.What is the solution to the muslim problem in India?? Appeasement?? Decades of pleasing the muslims has produced the problems we have today. Its time to stand up and let them know we wont tolerate anymore

I would agree with you on that one. Tolerating minorities is one thing and appeasing them is another thing. I really hate the later one.

3.Every failure is a stepping stone.. we have to learn from past mistakes but we shouldnt back off from our responsibilities.

I am sorry Paul. I am not sure what responsibilities you are talking about. Taking care of our own problem is our responsibility. Helping our friends is our responsibility. But, IMO, commiting our troops in Iraq for few billion $ at the cost of serveral hundreds (if not thousands) life of Indians is not our responsibility (not to mension, you would never know what would happen to the millions Indians living in ME if something bad happen in Iraq).

Sri Lanka wasnt exactly a failure.. IPKF captured Prabhakaran 3 times.. and released him. FOOLS!

That is really news to me. I never heard of it before.
Paul Stevens
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Originally posted by Sankar Subbiah:

Could you please tell me why do the other 5 deserve a permenant place in an International organization?

Because when it was formed most of those countries where the powers of the world. Now do you want to answer the question on why India deserves it?
Terimaki Tojay
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Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

Because when it was formed most of those countries where the powers of the world. Now do you want to answer the question on why India deserves it?

Please start a new topic.
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Originally posted by Paul Stevens:
Why does India deserve a permanent place on the security council?
I would be more than happy to remove France and put India in its place.
Vinod John
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Posts: 162
Originally posted by Paul Stevens:

Because when it was formed most of those countries where the powers of the world. Now do you want to answer the question on why India deserves it?

The more appropriate question is does the "Security Council" serves the present day situation in its present form. The best example is Iraq situation when every member pondered what is in there for them rather than think about the Iraqis(minus Saddam). Russians now are broken, UK seems more of a proxy to US, French ... where they ever a world power ? (save Nepolean era) they seem to have an habit of opposing British, Chinese ... I have never heard them give a responsible statement until it directly affect them they are more of a name sake asian representative, US at the present circumstances think on their own but they don't want to serve under UN flag. But expanding the council is not going to be a solution (might lead to more confusion), redefining the power and scope of the council could be beneficial.
R K Singh
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Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
But one has to understand that sometimes some people need to make a pact with the devil to get some good things done.



"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
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I am waiting to listen from people who says that US will do anything to prevent terrorism.
AW I dont blame US at all. Because its all about money, honey.
Anti-America: I discussed it and found that people with closed eyes/mind cant make difference between anti-America and pro-america.
When one of my uncle complained my father about my smoking at that time I thought thay he was my biggest enemy.
And today after almost 12 yrs I found that he loves me most.
Devesh H Rao
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 09, 2002
Posts: 687

D�j� vu
 
wood burning stoves
 
subject: Inquiry Suggests Pakistanis Sold Nuclear Secrets -- NYTimes
 
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