Questions: Britain/England/Great Britain/UK ?

[Falana Dhimkana]

Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:

Britain comprises Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) and Northern Ireland, and is one of the 15 member states of the European Union (EU). Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Question 1] Are England/Scotland and Wales countries?
Question 2] Is Britain a country? If not, what is it then?
Question 3] Is Great Britain/UK a country? If not, what is it then?
I understand that Scotland and Ireland belong to some sort of umbrella entity called Great Britain which in turn is under another entity called UK.
Question 4] What relationship do Scotland and Wales have with Great Britain?
Question 5] What relationship do Great Britain and Northern Ireland have with UK?
Question 6] Are Scotalnd/Wales/Ireland also under the same monarchy?

Moving on from Geography to Economy
Question 7] How much say does the crown have in the political process?
Question 8] If the crown has any powers doesn't that interfere with democracy?
Question 9] There are enough countries running without any kings/queens. Are there any reasons besides emotional reasons for the common people to support lavish lifestyles of a whole set of people whose only qualification is their birth in the royal family?
None of the questions above are meant as an insult to any of the people/islands lying between the atlantic and the mainland Europe These are genuine questions out of curiosity

[Frank Silbermann]

Question 1] Are England/Scotland and Wales countries?

No. They are "nations" in the sense of cultural nationality. But Scotland and Wales gave up their sovereignty in exchange for an end to war against England.

Question 3] Is Great Britain/UK a country?

Yes.

Question 4] What relationship do Scotland and Wales have with Great Britain?

They are parts. Likewise Northern Ireland. Sort of like the relation between Victoria and Australia, or between Newfoundland and Canada.

Question 5] What relationship do Great Britain and Northern Ireland have with UK?

Great Britain is the United Kingdom.

Question 6] Are Scotland/Wales/Ireland also under the same monarchy?

Yes, assuming you meant _Northern_ Ireland. The Republic of Ireland is independent. (Also, Wales has its own prince.)

Moving on from Geography to Economy
Question 7] How much say does the crown have in the political process?

(What's that got to do with Economy?) Virtually none, except for persuasion.

Question 9] There are enough countries running without any kings/queens. Are there any reasons besides emotional reasons for the common people to support lavish lifestyles of a whole set of people whose only qualification is their birth in the royal family?

Mainly emotional, but also Great Britain has a tradition that it is treason to dethrown the Royal Family. So they've avoided treason by simply reducing their power little by little until there's virtually none left.
I don't know how much support the Royal Family gets from the government, but much of their lavish lifestyle is self-funded. They are very rich, you know, having accumulated massive private wealth over the centuries when the Royal Family _did_ have political power.

[Tim Baker]

Question 1] Yes
Question 2] Yes
Question 3] Yes
I understand that Scotland and Ireland belong to some sort of umbrella entity called Great Britain which in turn is under another entity called UK.
Question 4] They are part of it
Question 5] Great Britain and NI are two branches of the UK.
Question 6] Yes (presuming you mean northern ireland)

Moving on from Geography to Economy
Question 7] In reality none. In law there are some remaining powers that are never used.
Question 8] Not really
Question 9] There are some running with them too. There are plenty of rich people who inherit their wealth from their parents too without actually doing anything. It's no different really. A lot of royals perform public services. They take part in a lot of ceremonial duties and attract a lot of tourism. And of course they sell a lot of tabloids.
It might sound complicated but Great Britain has little significance really. The parliament is the UK parliament including MPs from england, wales, scotland and NI. Of course that was too simple for labour so now wales has an assembly with some powers, scotland has a parliament with some more powers and NI has a suspended assembly with no powers at the moment. Of course england doesn't have it's own local assembly or parliament, because that would be too sensible.
If you want to get into sports it depends entirely on each sport. GB and NI compete seperately at the olympics. All have their own football teams. Rugly is even more complicated. I think only england have a cricket team.

[Falana Dhimkana]

Originally posted by Tim Baker:
Question 1] Yes
Question 2] Yes
Question 3] Yes
I understand that Scotland and Ireland belong to some sort of umbrella entity called Great Britain which in turn is under another entity called UK.
Question 4] They are part of it
Question 5] Great Britain and NI are two branches of the UK.
Question 6] Yes (presuming you mean northern ireland)

Moving on from Geography to Economy
Question 7] In reality none. In law there are some remaining powers that are never used.
Question 8] Not really
Question 9] There are some running with them too. There are plenty of rich people who inherit their wealth from their parents too without actually doing anything. It's no different really. A lot of royals perform public services. They take part in a lot of ceremonial duties and attract a lot of tourism. And of course they sell a lot of tabloids.
It might sound complicated but Great Britain has little significance really. The parliament is the UK parliament including MPs from england, wales, scotland and NI. Of course that was too simple for labour so now wales has an assembly with some powers, scotland has a parliament with some more powers and NI has a suspended assembly with no powers at the moment. Of course england doesn't have it's own local assembly or parliament, because that would be too sensible.
If you want to get into sports it depends entirely on each sport. GB and NI compete seperately at the olympics. All have their own football teams. Rugly is even more complicated. I think only england have a cricket team.

Tim, I gotta say the system in the isles is fairly confusing It is in noway similiar to democracies I am familiar with i.e US/Canada/India. For the sake of clarity (and if its possible) can you draw some parallels with US/Canada/India?
If Scotland/wales are independent countries how is it that they all send reps to one parliament? Are these more like states of United States or are these countries?
It sounds pretty much like UK is a country and everything else is a state and some states have some powers and then some states go independently into sports and for some there is only one team.

[Tim Baker]

They're not independent countries, they are just countries. Whether you call them nations or countries depends on your definitions of the two. In certain definitions they are interchangable, whilst in others a country is independently governed. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are certainly not independent.
It's a bit like US states in that Scotland has it's own laws, but all the 'states' in the UK are not equal. The scottish MPs can vote on matters that affect only England if the scottish parliament has control over that particular issue in scotland. Scotland is also disproporsionally represented in the UK parliament because they have more MPs per population than England.
The range of powers that the scottish parliament has were given to it from the UK parliament, and they are not complete. There are many issues that only the UK parliament has control over.
Another important note is that there are geographical borders between the countries but there are no fences or checkpoints. So in this sense I would say all citizens are UK citizens because you can move freely between them, without even telling anyone.
Wanna talk about local governments and counties?
[ January 19, 2004: Message edited by: Tim Baker ]
[ January 19, 2004: Message edited by: Tim Baker ]

[Marcus Green]

The political/national make up of countries is rarely as transparent as it might seem. For example in Australia the states have a separate relationship with the British Crown to the Australian Federal Government, people from the UK are frequently surprised to see that different US States have quite different taxation and other laws and there are many parts of Europe where groups of people consider them selves a "nation" and have some kind of Autonomy from the globally recognised central governments.

[Jim Yingst]

I've generally heard England, Scotland and Wales referred to as
[Frank S]: Great Britain is the United Kingdom.
If I understand correctly, not quite. Great Britain is the island with England, Scotland, and Wales. It does not include Norhern Ireland. The United Kingdom, however, does include Northern Ireland. "Britain" generally refers to the UK rather than Great Britain. Which means that, oddly enough, Great Britain is smaller than Britain.
Also, Wales has its own prince
Admittedly he's more English than Welsh.

[HS Thomas]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Admittedly he's more English than Welsh.

And as German as English.

United Kingdom
house: Windsor
previous houses: Plantagenet, Lancaster, York, Tudor, Stuart, Hanover, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
surname: Mountbatten-Windsor
previous surnames: Guelph, Welf...

Talk:Royal House

[Jeroen Wenting]

The official name is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
Great Britain is therefore the UK minus Northern Ireland.
I suspect the real name should include the other overseas posessions as well, or does Great Britain include those?

[Joe King]

Question 1] Are England/Scotland and Wales countries?

Yes. Scotland is also a kingdom and Wales a principality.

Question 2] Is Britain a country? If not, what is it then?

Northwest of the european mainland are the British Isles. Great Britain is the largest of these islands, and has on it England, Scotland and Wales. The second larges island has the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland on it. When people say "Britain" is can be confusing, because it isa short form of "Great Britain" which in turn can either be the name of the biggest island, or a shortened form of "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". This is why the UK uses .co.uk and not .co.gb - UK is a better short form for the country name than Britain, because Britain leaves out the northern irish.

Question 3] Is Great Britain/UK a country? If not, what is it then?

The UK is a country. England, Scotland and Wales together used to be known as the Kingdom of Great Britain, but that no longer exists as a country - it was renamed to form the UK.

Question 4] What relationship do Scotland and Wales have with Great Britain?

Scotland and Wales are countries on the island called Great Britain.

Question 5] What relationship do Great Britain and Northern Ireland have with UK?

The UK is made up of the countries on the island called Great Britain, and Northern Ireland on the next door island. The full name is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". The name used to be "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland" before Ireland left.

Question 6] Are Scotalnd/Wales/Ireland also under the same monarchy?

In the Statue of Rhuddan in 1284 Wales became a principality of the Kingdom of England, putting it under the rule of the English monarchy. Scotland had a seperate royal family, but in 1603, the two families joined together, with the same monarch ruling both, but under two titles - king/queen of scotland and king/queen of england. In 1707 the two were formally joined into one in the Act of Union and the Kingdom of Great Britain was formed. This stayed as it was until 1801 when Ireland joined. Ireland left in 1927 (although I think the queen remained their head of state for a short while).

Question 7] How much say does the crown have in the political process?

The crown can do a lot, but doesn't - if the queen ever asserted too much political power, she would most likely be removed. Officially the queen is at the head of the army and the law courts, she opens and closes parliament. She also has to give permission for a general election to be held, and chooses the prime minister (although very rarely goes against the convention of selecting the leader of the party most likely to survive a parliament). The queen can veto bills from being passed by the parliament (technically parliament is made up of the two houses and the queen). The queen does have a political role in that the prime minister meets with the queen in a weekly meeting in which they discuss various policies. The queen has been around for a long time, so she can offer quite a bit of useful advice - several prime ministers have been quoted as saying that they have sought and taken her advice on many issues.

Question 8] If the crown has any powers doesn't that interfere with democracy?

Not hugely - there is an unwritten rule that says that the public dont really want the queen to do too much, or not be fairly neutral. It would take a fairly major political event for the queen to get involved in an official capacity. A more undemocratic factor in british politics is the unelected upper house - the house of lords.

Question 9] There are enough countries running without any kings/queens. Are there any reasons besides emotional reasons for the common people to support lavish lifestyles of a whole set of people whose only qualification is their birth in the royal family?

Yes, there are a few. One is that seperating the head of state from the head of government means that the neither can have too much power. Blair can make some constitutional changes, but is blocked from making too many simply because he cant. A combined prime minister/presedent could do far more. The US system of combining both roles is fairly rare - many countries have seperate presedents and prime ministers. The UK system is a bit different to others in that the head of state is *expected* not to use his/her powers.
The cost of supporting the royal family is not as much as often stated. If we were to have a president instead of a king/queen, then we would have to support them as well (albeit probably not as lavishly). The royal family do also bring in a lot of money through tourism. I think most people in the UK would probably prefer it if the number of members of the royal family who are supported by the state was reduced however, and it is likely that this will happen at some point in the nearish future - both the government and the royal family seem eager to modernise the royal family.
One other thing not often known by non- commonwealth people is quite how many countries that the queen is head of state of. Here is a list of current and former titles that the queen has held:

* Antigua and Barbuda: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Antigua and Barbuda and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Australia: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of Australia and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* The Bahamas: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of the Commonwealth of The Bahamas and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Barbados: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Barbados and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Belize: Elizabeth The Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Belize and of Her Other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Canada: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
* Grenada: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Grenada and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Jamaica: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Jamaica and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth.
* New Zealand: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of New Zealand and Her Other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
* Papua New Guinea: Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Papua New Guinea and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Saint Kitts and Nevis: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Saint Christopher and Nevis and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Saint Lucia: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Saint Lucia and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Solomon Islands: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of the Solomon Islands and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Tuvalu: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of Tuvalu and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland: Elizabeth II, Dei Gratia Britanniarum Regnorumque Suorum Ceterorum Regina, Consortionis Populorum Princeps, Fidei Defensor. (Latin, Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.)
Former Royal Titles
Elizabeth II also held the following titles at various times in her reign:
* Ceylon: Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Ceylon and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth
* Fiji (1970-1987): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God Queen of Fiji and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* The Gambia (1965-1970): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of The Gambia and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Ghana (1957-1960): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Ghana and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth
* Guyana (1966-1970): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Guyana and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Kenya (1963-1964): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Kenya and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Malawi (1964-1966): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Malawi and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Malta (1964-1974): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Malta and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Mauritius (1968-1992): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Mauritius and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Nigeria (1960-1963): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Nigeria and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Pakistan (1952-1956): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of the United Kingdom and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Rhodesia (1965-1970)1: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Rhodesia and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Sierra Leone (1961-1971): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Sierra Leone and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* South Africa (1952-1961): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of South Africa and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Tanganyika (1961-1962): Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Tanganyika and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth
* Trinidad and Tobago (1962-1976): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Trinidad and Tobago and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
* Uganda (1962-1963): Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of Uganda and of Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth

[SJ Adnams]

[Frank S]: Great Britain is the United Kingdom.
If I understand correctly, not quite. Great Britain is the island with England, Scotland, and Wales. It does not include Norhern Ireland. The United Kingdom, however, does include Northern Ireland. "Britain" generally refers to the UK rather than Great Britain. Which means that, oddly enough, Great Britain is smaller than Britain.

There is only one country. The country is called "Great Britain". All other names are just geographical definitions.
UK is not a country.
England is not a country.
get it?

[Joe King]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:

There is only one country. The country is called "Great Britain". All other names are just geographical definitions.
UK is not a country.
England is not a country.
get it?

Thats completely the wrong way around! Great Britain is the geographical entry. The name of the country on my passport is "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" ie the UK.

[SJ Adnams]

I disassociate myself from northern island. No matter what my passport says.

[Keith Wilson]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
I disassociate myself from northern island. No matter what my passport says.

Having been born in Northern Ireland (assuming that's what you meant) and lived here for all of my 32 years, I'd be interested to hear your reasons?
[ January 20, 2004: Message edited by: Keith Wilson ]

[Jeroen Wenting]

Originally posted by Keith Wilson:

Having been born in Northern Ireland and lived here for all of my 32 years, I'd be interested to hear your reasons?

He says Northern ISLAND, guess he doesn't like North Island New Zealanders much

[SJ Adnams]

present company excepted of course, combined with the fact that I have never been there...
'The residents' of northern island come across in a similar way to the residents of israel.
(i.e. a bunch of racists, that deserve to left alone so they can blow each other up)
or to paraphrase
'only jews should be allowed to live in israel'
'I am a unionist & I don't want to live next door to a nationalist/black/asian'
Probably not near to the truth, but thats the way it comes across in the media.

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
present company excepted of course, combined with the fact that I have never been there...
'The residents' of northern island come across in a similar way to the residents of israel.
(i.e. a bunch of racists, ...

You mean the kind of people who make sweeping generalisations about other peoples/nations despite not knowing the facts? Of course, none of us would do that...

[Keith Wilson]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
present company excepted of course, combined with the fact that I have never been there...
'The residents' of northern island come across in a similar way to the residents of israel.
(i.e. a bunch of racists, that deserve to left alone so they can blow each other up)
or to paraphrase
'only jews should be allowed to live in israel'
'I am a unionist & I don't want to live next door to a nationalist/black/asian'
Probably not near to the truth, but thats the way it comes across in the media.

Thanks for the sweeping generalisation. So you say that although you've never been here and you listen to only what you've heard in the media (ie other people's opinions), you're still able to make a statement that we are all 'a bunch of racists, that deserve to left alone so they can blow each other up'. I'm sorry but I find that very offensive, ignorant and prejudiced. :roll:

[SJ Adnams]

well there is this thing called an election that gets held.
if a ward votes in a BNP candidate then whether I've been there or not I'm going to come up with the impression that the place is full intolerant individuals.
So when you people vote in people like Martin McGuinness & co. That kind of gives me the impression that I do not want to visit NI, and most certainly

I disassociate myself from northern island. No matter what my passport says.

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
well there is this thing called an election that gets held.
if a ward votes in a BNP candidate then whether I've been there or not I'm going to come up with the impression that the place is full intolerant individuals.
So when you people vote in people like Martin McGuinness & co. That kind of gives me the impression that I do not want to visit NI, and most certainly

Following that logic, then all of England is full of racist bigots because someone voted in a BNP candidate somewhere.

[Keith Wilson]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
well there is this thing called an election that gets held.
if a ward votes in a BNP candidate then whether I've been there or not I'm going to come up with the impression that the place is full intolerant individuals.
So when you people vote in people like Martin McGuinness & co. That kind of gives me the impression that I do not want to visit NI, and most certainly

So from this I can only assume that you will refuse to ever visit England, and indeed label its residents a 'bunch of racists, that deserve to left alone so they can blow each other up' because this is EXACTLY what they have done: voted in several BNP councillors in several council wards. Obviously this can be extrapolated to the alarming fact that the whole of England is institutionally racist.
To try and explain in a few short paragraphs why ex-terrorists (note I say ex; they have renounced violent struggle as part of the Good Friday agreement of 1998, unlike the BNP who actively support their current & abhorrent policies) is futile; there is over 400 years of complex Irish history behind it.
You also said that the reason you think we in this country are racist is that (to use your paraphrase) 'I am a unionist & I don't want to live next door to a nationalist/black/asian', yet you then go on to say that the reason you don't want to visit is that we 'vote in people like Martin McGuinness & co'. Well McGuinness & Co. are in fact republicans and as far removed from Unionists as is possible. I'm not sure whether this is a shocking display of ignorance about the subject you feel qualified to call me & my countrymen both racist and intolerant, or the fact that you are just tarring us all with the same brush.
Let me tell you something. I am, as I have stated, a Belfast resident of 32 years. I am also a Protestant. I got married in 1998 and my best man was a Catholic - indeed he is still my best friend. I am now divorced and sharing a house with another Protestant and 2 other Catholics. The crowd of friends I have is almost exactly 50-50 split between the 2 'religious' groups. I am neither racist nor intolerant. And this is typical for people in my country; sure, you see different reports on the news but then who is going to make a news report about people here getting on well? About people NOT fighting? This country has made amazing strides in the last few years, there has been a huge investment in jobs and infrastructure and it is a GOOD place to live. The recent assembly results were disappointing from a progressionist POV, but in my experience the more extreme elements of any society are generally more motivated to vote and make their voice heard - perhaps this was exactly what the moderate majority needed to give them (us) a good wake up call.
Don't blindly believe everything you hear in the media.

[SJ Adnams]

There are undoubtedly many bigots in England.
And they vote for political parties that are aligned with thier views.
Let me know when they set up a west belfast tourist information office & I might go and visit so I can see what a wonderful place it is to live.

[Keith Wilson]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
There are undoubtedly many bigots in England.
And they vote for political parties that are aligned with thier views.
Let me know when they set up a west belfast tourist information office & I might go and visit so I can see what a wonderful place it is to live.

Good grief. Is your tack now that because one city in NI has a ghetto/run down area, then the whole country is blighted? Tell me ANY major city in the world that doesn't have such an area. That, quite frankly, is an absurd claim. And I don't appreciate the sarcasm, either.
And, by the way, here's a link to the
West Belfast Tourism Office, just like you asked for.
Would you care to tell me which country you hail from?

[SJ Adnams]

I live in Poplar (East London) which is fantastic thankyou.

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
I live in Poplar (East London) which is fantastic thankyou.

Ah, so you must be a Milwall football thug...

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by Steve Wink:

Ah, so you must be a Milwall football thug...

Or maybe a racist?
http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/stories/racewar.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/september/17/newsid_2520000/2520085.stm
I'm not saying you are, just reflecting your logic back on you.

[SJ Adnams]

sure there are plenty of people with all sorts of opinions.

But somehow everyone seems to get along just fine.

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by SJ Ponsardin:
sure there are plenty of people with all sorts of opinions.

But somehow everyone seems to get along just fine.

Well, I don't know because I've not been there. But I've seen media reports about the BNP and Milwall thugs, ergo you must be a racist football thug.

[Falana Dhimkana]

Originally posted by Joe King:

Yes. Scotland is also a kingdom and Wales a principality.

Well, just when I thought I had understood all the business about the isles along comes a new term
1. Can you explain what's a principality? How is it similiar/different from a state/kingdom(Scotland)?
2. Also, what is the house of lords and are these "lords" selected by royal family or are these directly/indirectly chosen by the people? What kind of qualification does one need to be a lord? How much political say do these lords have? What kind of policies can they influence?
3. What kind of relationship do all these countries (Australia, NZ, Canada, Tuvalu etc) that you listed have with the crown? Do they pay some taxes the queen? What's in it for these countries? I can understand that UK has always has a monarchy for historical/emotional/functional reason but what does the monarchy bring to the rest of the countries?
4. Someone mentioned "other possessions"? What are these?

[Angela Poynton]

OK you lot, pack it in!
This was an interesting thread until it turned nasty!
Now without naming names I'm just going to say READ THIS and remember "BE NICE" get back on the subject and we'll be OK, otherwise this thread is in danger of being taken away which would be a complete waste of the initial very informative posts!
OK?
BTW - my passport is from the "United Kingdom on Great Britain and Northern Ireland" (or so it says on the front but in side under "Nationality" it says I'm British, life is just too confusing!
[ January 20, 2004: Message edited by: Angela Poynton ]

[Jim Yingst]

All right, let's remember this is supposed to be a place for friendly conversation. SJ, this was a simple factual discussion of what terms mean; the fact that you don't like Northern Ireland is not relevant. If you can't post on this topic without insulting others, don't post. Steve - well I sympathize. But tossing "racist" and "thug" back in return isn't conducive to our "friendly place" motto either. Yes, I see that you weren't really calling him that, just demonstrating how that sort of flawed logic works. But as temperatures rise, that distinction doesn't really matter to those who read it. So let's try not to lower the temperature rather than raise it. Thanks.

[Steven Broadbent]

Scotland has a slightly different legal system too - criminal juries have 15 members not twelve as in England. The jury can return three verdicts - not guilty, guilty and not proven. The not proven verdict has been called "go away and don't do it again". Also the accused is called the panel.

[Davy Kelly]

Did you know, that in some parts of America, Australia and other countries are now on the band wagon of the Scottish verdict of Not Proven. But some legal people don't like this verdict as it is kind of saying:
Yeah we know you did it, it is so obvious that you did, but we don't have enough evidence to say that you did and put you away to be used as a doll for the other inmates!!!
Davy

[Jim Yingst]

Davy - got a link or something? What parts of America are now doing this? (Or maybe thinking about it?)

[Davy Kelly]

Hey Jim,
this is all I have at the moment, most of the legal sites I have tried to get into only let you go so far, but i will keep my eye out.
Davy

[Davy Kelly]

sorry the link was:
Law Forum
Davy

[John Dunn]

The judge in Arkansas found Bill Clinton "not proven" with Monica.
so they just dis-barred him and if he's ever President again, he should not lie under oath :roll:

[Jim Yingst]

Davy - were you thinking of the last comment here? Or have you seen more about this elsewhere?
Going further offtopic, I was browsing the Scottish law forum looking for more info and was amused by some of their forum descriptions:
---
Other Stuff For Sale
Want to sell something, then do so here. Spammers can also post here - your messages will be deleted though.
---
The Weather
It's cold, windy and wet today, same as yesterday. If you feel the need to discuss more though, post here.
---

[ January 20, 2004: Message edited by: Jim Yingst ]

[Davy Kelly]

I have seen more, but can't find it today, unfortunately.
I will ask a friend is she can help me with this cause she studied law at University
Davy

[Steve Wink]

Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
All right, let's remember this is supposed to be a place for friendly conversation. SJ, this was a simple factual discussion of what terms mean; the fact that you don't like Northern Ireland is not relevant. If you can't post on this topic without insulting others, don't post. Steve - well I sympathize. But tossing "racist" and "thug" back in return isn't conducive to our "friendly place" motto either. Yes, I see that you weren't really calling him that, just demonstrating how that sort of flawed logic works. But as temperatures rise, that distinction doesn't really matter to those who read it. So let's try not to lower the temperature rather than raise it. Thanks.

I apologise if I've offended anyone. Shan't do it again.
[ January 21, 2004: Message edited by: Steve Wink ]