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Marriages

Kelvin Terk
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 3
Just curious to know the process of marriages across the globe.
Here in India (generally) we do match the horoscope of the couple and decides whether to go for the marriage or not.
Is this been followed in other countries (or any equivalent process) too?
Also interested to know the view of Indian ranchers out here about the tradition followed. Do they believe in this process?
The most common supporting arguement for the horoscope matching practice I have noticed is that "it only due to horoscope matching the marriages are more successful in India" than other western countries.
Comments please
jyothsna kumari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 108
Its not because of the matching horoscope, marriages are successfull but it because of the bond called love.i have seen many couples who are happy though they have not followed the tradition of matching horoscope.
what i feel is it is the understanding,faith and love which make marriages successfull but not by matching the horoscopes.
Jyothna
ChanSan Mehbubani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 30, 2003
Posts: 108
Originally posted by jyothsna kumari:
Its not because of the matching horoscope, marriages are successfull but it because of the bond called love.i have seen many couples who are happy though they have not followed the tradition of matching horoscope.
what i feel is it is the understanding,faith and love which make marriages successfull but not by matching the horoscopes.
Jyothna

Then why the hell protitution business is thriving at exponential rate in India?


I am a Papad
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by jyothsna kumari:
..love.
Jyothna

Well, isn't that the case everywhere?
IMHO, Indians doesn�t have any special ability to love and trust their partners more than any average human being. I guess the success (really? That�s another debatable point altogether) behind marriages in India is more about choices (the lack of, that is) of the individuals than anything else. The society is so conservative, it doesn�t concepts that�s strange to it, and doesn�t provide enough opportunities (and freedom, most importantly) to individuals to see/think/desire/act anything other than what they have. Its just my opinion and I could be wrong.


[ flickr ]
ChanSan Mehbubani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 30, 2003
Posts: 108
Yes,you are wrong and you didn't seem to get a chance to visit India in last 300 years.
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Tanga Palti:
Yes,you are wrong and you didn't seem to get a chance to visit India in last 300 years.

It would be perfect if you could point or explain clearly why he(Ashok) is wrong, instead of bluntly saying "you are wrong"..
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Tanga Palti:
Yes,you are wrong and you didn't seem to get a chance to visit India in last 300 years.


'Increase in prostitution' has got nothing to do with marriages, IMHO, Tanga! Anyway, so you do not believe love is whats holding marriages together, and you do not think its the lack of freedom. And you are also worried about increase in prostitution in India. Now, whats is your point, if you wont mind me asking?
Kelvin Terk
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 26, 2004
Posts: 3
I have a friend who love a girl and they were going nicely till their parents came to know through a horoscope reader that if they marry the girl will die (something realted to manglik, which I don't know).
The couple went through websites(horoscope, astrology etc.)and found that everywhere it was the same story. Their horoscope are totally opposite.
Just confused about the authenticity of these prediction.
I am not saying they are wrong as they are based upon the experiences and sizable portion of Indian population believes it, but are they worth of that much weightage in decision making?
Balaji Loganathan
author and deputy
Bartender

Joined: Jul 13, 2001
Posts: 3150
Originally posted by Pandit Jee:
I have a friend who love a girl and they were going nicely till their parents came to know through a horoscope reader that if they marry the girl will die (something realted to manglik, which I don't know).
The couple went through websites(horoscope, astrology etc.)and found that everywhere it was the same story. Their horoscope are totally opposite.

Its happened to the famous keral actor "JayRam" as well, many astrologers told he will die if he marry her lover, he still boldly married her lover and they are living happily now. BYW they have a baby too. NASA is thinking to send manned mission to Mars, but we Indians were stil hunting with this horoscope stuff..
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Balaji Loganathan:
but we Indians were stil hunting with this horoscope stuff..

It is another debate whether horoscope is science or just another superstition.
And IMHO, horoscope has nothing to do with going to mars or venus.
And I think Ashok is little bit right too.... in most cases you dont get free ride before marriage


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Jason Cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 287
I suspect marriages last longer in India more due to culture than tradition.
There is very little incentive to stay married in the US, in fact divorce is considered a viable solution to solve marital problems! There is very little stigma in getting a divorce and it's almost accepted that most marriages, especially if it's your first, will end in divorce. There are some places that will even let you rent your wedding ring!
Compare that to any culture that frowns upon divorce and expects couples to actually work through their differences and you will see a huge expanse in the rate of their divorce compared to the US.
It has nothing to do with horoscopes or love at all.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
I agree with Robs view, and that of others in general.
And to add the example of another popular Kerala actor, Suresh Gopi, who married following traditional horoscope matching, had to live though the death of his four-year-old son in a tragic car accident, which apparently, his rich and famous astrologer failed to foresee!
However, I believe there is some science in astrology, and a well-read, intelligent person can, with the help of ancient texts and sutras, vaguely predict general course of events in ones life. As far as I understand, astrology is based on a number of sutras (verses) from which a group will be considered to represent the effect of heavenly bodies (planets etc) on the life of a person, based on the position of the planets at the time of birth of the particular person. Now, what I gathered from an uncle of mine, who was a great scholar and as someone who looked into astrology as a critic, is that the sutras are written in such a fashion that it leaves room for improvisation by the astrologer. For example, as per the position of planets, and their influence in the life Pandit Jee�s friend and his girl friend, there might be some calculations and its corresponding sutra that mentions something like a negative, or a bad situation. This far its science, and from there on, it depends on the wit of the astrologer to relate the negative element that he saw in sutras, and its degree, to that of the client (mostly a strange person) who is sitting in front of him.
So, if astrologer miss-read a millionaire industrialist to a hungry farmer, he would interpret the negative sign as bad crops or a dead cow, which would be absolutely rubbish and vice versa.
Anyway, long story short, I think your friend should trust his own feelings, beliefs and love and do what he thinks is right, instead of relying on astrologers and their half-educated opinions. Whats got to happen will happen and no astrologer can changes anything anyway!!!
Frank Silbermann
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 1385
Its happened to the famous keral actor "JayRam" as well, many astrologers told he will die if he marry her lover, he still boldly married her lover and they are living happily now.

Let's see if his luck is still holding out fifty years from now.
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:
Whats got to happen will happen and no astrologer can changes anything anyway!!!

Ahh.... this is the line often astrologer face when some doubts on their knowledge or method of working.
Though I dont wear any rings but still some where I feel these heavnly bodies must be having some affect on human body and that can be neutralised by some stones.
Regarding how much the predictions work. You will listen different stories from different person.
First of all, no astrologer says directly anything. Their language is made of very cleverly chosen words.
Bottom line is, if you believe in astrology then go for it else just let things happen the way they are happening.
hmm.... happy marriages.... after watching "Astitva", I am in very much doubt what is happy marriage ??
can anyone define what is happy marriage? Is just living with your wife whole life definition of happy marriage ??
Really I dont know whether its good or bad, not having any word for "Divorce" in Hindi(keeping apart Urdu).
Does any other Sanskrit originated language has any word for "Divorce" ??
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by R K Singh:

..can anyone define what is happy marriage?
Very difficult question indeed! Well, a group of six individuals will have seven defenitions for that though!
Really I dont know whether its good or bad, not having any word for "Divorce" in Hindi(keeping apart Urdu). Does any other Sanskrit originated language has any word for "Divorce" ??
Yes, in Malayalam, "Vivaha Mochanam" stands for divorce. Vivaham being marriage, and 'Mochanam' as in 'mochan' of hindi/sanscrit, meaning 'relieve'.

Ashok.
Falana Dhimkana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 38
Originally posted by Pandit Jee:
Just curious to know the process of marriages across the globe.
Here in India (generally) we do match the horoscope of the couple and decides whether to go for the marriage or not.
Comments please

It will be very interesting to find out how many regions in India traditionally follow this practice. I am not sure if it is so "general". I know for a fact that Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists in India don't have any horoscopes. Also, I am not sure if North-East India has a tradition of horoscopes.
I think it is really hard to say what is general across India. I remember having this discussion with a bunch of Indian folks, all Hindus from different part of India. Suddenly, a marathi guy says hindus marry their first cousins. He said it as a matter of fact and north Indian hindus were totally taken aback. It turn out that in coastal maharashtra it is a common practice and marrying first cousins in Kerala is also perfectly fine. In UP/Bihar they pretty much think of it as a sin. So, I can never be sure as to what's "general" in India!
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Falana Dhimkana:
It will be very interesting to find out how many regions in India traditionally follow this practice.
These are the states which I can say that they pratise horoscope in their marriages:
Himachal Pradesh
Chadigarh
Punjab
Rajasthan
Gujrat
UP
Bihar
W-Bengal
Orissa
Maharashtra
MP
AP
Tamilnadu
etc..
I am not sure if it is so "general".
I think if something is being followed by more than 50% comes under general.
I remember having this discussion with a bunch of Indian folks,
"Falana Dhimkana" Bhaiya, are you trying to say that you are not Indian.
But your name tells from where are you ?? rt
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Falana Dhimkana:

I remember having this discussion with a bunch of Indian folks, all Hindus from different part of India. Suddenly, a marathi guy says hindus marry their first cousins. He said it as a matter of fact and north Indian hindus were totally taken aback. It turn out that in coastal maharashtra it is a common practice ...

Falane,that Marathi guy must have married his cousin.Its NOT A practice in coastal Maharashstra.


MH
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Falana Dhimkana:
..I know for a fact that Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists in India don't have any horoscopes.
I beg to differ. I know more non-hindu folks with full horoscope, and frequent visits to astrolleger than you can shake a stick at! Well, it only points your point I suppose, generalisations of any sort won't do justice in India, as we are that diverse!
..marrying first cousins in Kerala is also perfectly fine.
I am from Kerala, and I can only agree to disagree! )
So, I can never be sure as to what's "general" in India!

I am totally with you on that!
jyothsna kumari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 108
it is very nice to see many responses for this topic.Since India has many religions we cannot generalize that everyone follows the tradition of matching of horoscopes.It is up to there belief and nothing much.The point which i strongly want to say is "Without love and faith on each other no couple can be happy though there horoscopes match".
Jyothsna
Varun Khanna
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by Pandit Jee:
I have a friend ....

Even IF you believe in astrology let this science assist you in your decision making but don't let it rule your decision making.
and why do we use horoscope in marriages only? .. if you look deep into this science it says horoscope should be used in every sphere of life e.g. in alliances like a business partnership or deciding the day/date on which you are going for an interview etc. etc. etc.
Does your friend use astrology everywhere?
Wish your friend a happy marriage life with his beloved

[ January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Varun Khanna ]

- Varun
R K Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Capablanca Kepler:

Falane,

His name is Falana not Falanae.
AW I will also agree with Jyoti and Ashok after all "Unity in diversity" is our speciality.
Falana Dhimkana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 38
Originally posted by R K Singh:
I remember having this discussion with a bunch of Indian folks,
"Falana Dhimkana" Bhaiya, are you trying to say that you are not Indian.
But your name tells from where are you ?? rt

Wasn't trying to mislead anyone. Just wanted to clarify that I was talking to some Indian folks, not some clueless people from someplace else
Ashok,
I haven't seen any Indian people but hindus with horoscopes. The only non-hindu people who follow astrology I think are parsis. But then again maybe there are. You prove my point There is nothing general about India. I remember this guy from school. He was from Kerala and he said marriages with maternal cousins are ok not with others. I figured that must be the common practice, but I guess I was generalising
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Falana Dhimkana:
..I haven't seen any Indian people but hindus with horoscopes. The only non-hindu people who follow astrology I think are parsis.

Well, welcome to Kerala! One hundred percent literacy with birth rate of twenty for 1000 females, compared to national average of 31 (world average 38), infant mortality rate of 17 per 1000 births, average life expectancy of that of North America, democratically elected communist (Marxist) government from time to time, influence of foriegn money, in short, the highly debatable 'Kerala model' of development is always a shocker! You get to see people from all religions signing themselves up for massive Christian prayer meetings (in tens of thousands), looking for a second opinion with astrologers, imams, Hindu priests and all kinds. Its fun there, really!
PS: I could have avoided the first part of the post, but I couldn’t miss a change to brag about Kerala!
[ January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]
Falana Dhimkana
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 38
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

Well, welcome to Kerala! One hundred percent literacy with birth rate of twenty for 1000 females, compared to national average of 31 (world average 38), infant mortality rate of 17 per 1000 births, average life expectancy of that of North America, democratically elected communist (Marxist) government from time to time, influence of foriegn money, in short, the highly debatable 'Kerala model' of development is always a shocker! You get to see people from all religions signing themselves up for massive Christian prayer meetings (in tens of thousands), looking for a second opinion with astrologers, imams, Hindu priests and all kinds. Its fun there, really!
PS: I could have avoided the first part of the post, but I couldn’t miss a change to brag about Kerala!
[ January 28, 2004: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]

I gotta say Kerala really has an impressive track record in literacy and with that every thing else follows naturally.
 
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