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Batman vs. Captain America?

Max Habibi
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I'd have to give it to the Captain. All things being equal, the Captain has super strength. OTOH, Batman did take down superman, so who knows?
M


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Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

Captain America is much more in-your-face. You can see him coming a mile away. Whereas Batman is always in the shadows, so he can sneak up on people. I forget whether the Captain has any kind of super vision or hearing. If he doesn't, and if Batman got to choose the venue, I think the Caped Crusader would whip his ass.


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Nigel Browne
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Batman everytime.
Nathaniel Stoddard
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Judging from my experience at the local pizza parlor and its "Captain America and the Avengers" entertainment venue, and the fact that I never chose the Captain ... I'd probably have to go with Batman on this one.


Nathaniel Stodard<br />SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD, SCDJWS, ICAD, ICSD, ICED
Max Habibi
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Well now,
Batman has gadgets, and a willingness to fight dirty. Cptn. America was at least equal fighting skill, super strength(he can, I think, pick up a car), and his shield.
I'd have to say the Cptn, if it were a gladiator type-fight. Street fight with time to prepare? Batman.
M
Jason Menard
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I didn't think Captain America was super-strong. I guess that would certainly work in his favor.
Max Habibi
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Didn't he take a super soldier serum? I thought that was his whole premise: lanky kid who wanted to help the war effort, but couldn't pass the physical. Took a serum, got super buff, and fought the baddies.
M
Nathaniel Stoddard
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Does Captain America have a sidekick? If not he may be in trouble should Batman decide to fight dirty.
Nigel Browne
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Anyone remember 'Marshall Law' I liked his take on Capt America . In fact Marshall Law had a stab at all superheros.
"Superheros, I hate superheros." Marshall Law
.
Fear and loathing
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Nathaniel Stoddard:
Does Captain America have a sidekick? If not he may be in trouble should Batman decide to fight dirty.

Yup, 'Bucky'. Let the gay subtext runnith over.
M
Nathaniel Stoddard
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Bucky huh? For some reason he wasn't in the arcade version. :roll:
Jessica Sant
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Batman doesn't actually have any super-powers right? just gadgets?
They haven't come out with a Captain America movie yet, so I don't know anything about him. (Nice honest answer, huh?)
But speaking of the Batman movie -- Christian Bale is hot, hopefully this next Batman movie won't suck.


- Jess
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Nathan Pruett
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Jess, you're so behind the times... The Captain America movie has been out for a while. Actually, it's been out for about twelve years! (I seemed to recall seeing it on TBS or USA or something years ago... but had to go to IMDB to find the link.)


-Nate
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Jessica Sant
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Originally posted by Nathan Pruett:
Jess, you're so behind the times... The Captain America movie has been out for a while.

and a whopping 3*'s out of 10. I better call BlockBuster and make sure they put a DVD on reserve for me.
Max Habibi
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There's a comic book writer, Brian Michael Bendis, who's considered the sliced bread of comics these days. His comics read very much like story boards for movies: As I understand it, there's an Avengers movie in the works which is based on his stuff.
based on the comic, it should be pretty damned good.
M
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

OK, here's another one:
Kim Possible vs. Tom Cruise from Mission: Impossible?
I say my girl Kim makes him into McNuggets.
[ April 19, 2004: Message edited by: Ernest Friedman-Hill ]
jason adam
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Stupid crossovers. But if we're going with it, I say the Dream King and his family will come in and kick everyone's butt, so HA!
Max Habibi
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Lucifier'd send him to his room to take a nap
M
Joel McNary
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How about Superman vs. Captain Marvel? (The "Shazaam" one, not the one that died of cancer...)
I think Superman would win, but I'd be rooting for Captain Marvel...
[ April 19, 2004: Message edited by: Joel McNary ]

Piscis Babelis est parvus, flavus, et hiridicus, et est probabiliter insolitissima raritas in toto mundo.
Max Habibi
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That would depend on pre-crisis superman vs. post-crisis. Pre-crisis used to be able to juggle planets. Post-crisis: not so much.
I think Marvel's supposed to be more powerful than Supes, as established by Kingdom Come. But, Supes has the heat-vision thing( and Krypto) so who knows.
M
jason adam
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Originally posted by Max Habibi:
Lucifier'd send him to his room to take a nap
M

You just had to bring up the Lightbringer, didn't you?? Fine, omnipotent, multiverse creating types put aside... :roll:
Jim Yingst
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Cap vs. Batman - in a straight fight, too close to call really. The company line (Marvel's, that is) is that Cap does not have "super strength". the serum he received gave him the best strength, speed, and reflexes humanly possible. So think in terms of the best olympic athletes I suppose. (And ignore the fact that the best possible weight lifter is going to be vastly different from the best best distance runner, etc.) If Cap has ever been shown lifting a car, it was... unusual... to say the least. (Then again there was a short period where Spidey had cosmic-type powers allowing him to fly and fire power beams, so you never know...) Batman on the other hand has just been really, really obsessive about training. And training. And training. Cap probably has the edge in strength, but in skill they're probably about the same. Batman's main advantages are that he fights dirty and plans really well. Give him some prep time (or just the element of surprise) and Cap is toast.
Actually they did recently face off in Avengers/JLA #2 where they were portrayed as pretty evenly matched. After a page or so of sparring they decided that it would probably take them a long time to resolve the fight, and it would probably depend on luck more than anything. And since the whole conflict had obviously been set up by some as-yet-undiscovered bad guy, they'd probably be better off blowing off the fight and instead teaming up to figure out what was really going on. (While their teammates continued pounding on each other - supposedly it was necessary to allow this to continue, so the bad guys wouldn't realize that someone was onto them.)
[Nathaniel]: Does Captain America have a sidekick? If not he may be in trouble should Batman decide to fight dirty.
[Max]: Yup, 'Bucky'. Let the gay subtext runnith over.[/b]
Because Batman and Robin were never accused of having any gay subtext, no siree...
Cap also teamed up with Falcon for a while, which was recently revived in a new series. Though Falc is no supposed to be considered a "sidekick" nowadays. (And knowing Christopher Priest, he won't be.)
[Nathan]: The Captain America movie has been out for a while.
And that wasn't the first. There were also versions in 1944, 1966, and 1979. I only saw the 1979 one - I don't recommend it. :roll:
[Max]: There's a comic book writer, Brian Michael Bendis, who's considered the sliced bread of comics these days. His comics read very much like story boards for movies: As I understand it, there's an Avengers movie in the works which is based on his stuff.
based on the comic, it should be pretty damned good.

I don't belive an Bendis Avengers have been published yet, so I'm not sure what you mean. But I do like Bendis' work (esp. Powers and Alias). I haven't heard any details about an Avengers movie (not those Avengers, that is), but suppose they could indeed be using a Bendis concept not yet published.
But if we're going with it, I say the Dream King and his family will come in and kick everyone's butt, so HA!
Well, excepet that he's dead now. Unless you mean Daniel, but he's still wet behind the ears. And neither one was known for butt-kicking (except that one demon at the end of Season of Mists; that was fun).
Of course if you're talking about the writing quality, well, ole Morph does have the edge, doesn't he?
[Max]: I think Marvel's supposed to be more powerful than Supes, as established by Kingdom Come. But, Supes has the heat-vision thing( and Krypto) so who knows.
I seem to remember them being pretty much equal, but CM used lightning strikes at the end, which were magic in origin, then circumventing Supes' usual invulnerability, yadda yadda.
For more on Supes vs. CM in an alternate future, see proposal for a miniseries. (Mark Waid swears he hadn't seen this when he wrote Kingdom Come, but I suspect one or two editors had.) Too bad Moore and DC had their falling out; would've bene interesting.


"I'm not back." - Bill Harding, Twister
Jason Menard
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JY: Because Batman and Robin were never accused of having any gay subtext, no siree..
"Quick Robin! To the bat-pole!"
I mean c'mon, look how Batman made Robin dress. Do you think he made him wear those short-shorts because they were practical? I don't think so.
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
Cap vs. Batman - in a straight fight, too close to call really. The company line (Marvel's, that is) is that Cap does not have "super strength".

In a past issue of ultimate Avengers, Cap took down the Hulk in a one-on-one, and he mentions that it's due to the fact that the he has Super solider Serum in his system.

the serum he received gave him the best strength, speed, and reflexes humanly possible. So think in terms of the best Olympic athletes I suppose. (And ignore the fact that the best possible weight lifter is going to be vastly different from the best distance runner, etc.) If Cap has ever been shown lifting a car, it was... unusual... to say the least. (Then again there was a short period where Spidey had cosmic-type powers allowing him to fly and fire power beams, so you never know...)

really? When was this? I missed it.

[Max]: There's a comic book writer, Brian Michael Bendis, who's considered the sliced bread of comics these days. His comics read very much like story boards for movies: As I understand it, there's an Avengers movie in the works which is based on his stuff.
based on the comic, it should be pretty damned good.

I don't belive an Bendis Avengers have been published yet, so I'm not sure what you mean. But I do like Bendis' work (esp. Powers and Alias). I haven't heard any details about an Avengers movie (not those Avengers, that is), but suppose they could indeed be using a Bendis concept not yet published.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=3428
he exclusive agreement means that fans should expect to see him working on "Ultimate Spider-Man," "Daredevil," "The Avengers" and "The Pulse," in addition to "Powers," for the foreseeable future, along with special projects like the current "Secret War" miniseries.
I think this is already out? I haven't really been keeping up.

[Max]: I think Marvel's supposed to be more powerful than Supes, as established by Kingdom Come. But, Supes has the heat-vision thing( and Krypto) so who knows.
I seem to remember them being pretty much equal, but CM used lightning strikes at the end, which were magic in origin, then circumventing Supes' usual invulnerability, yadda yadda.

Ironically, Supes won that fight, because when CM uses the lightning, he reverts to Billy B. Supes just clamped his hand over Billy's hand, and that was that.
However, in a recent Batman/Superman, Supes clearly stated that CM has more raw power.

For more on Supes vs. CM in an alternate future, see [URL=http://www.hoboes.com/html/Comics/Twilight/]proposal .
I didn't think anyone else knew about that! It's a great concept, though I don't really see much of it in Kingdom.
M
[ April 19, 2004: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
Jim Yingst
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[Jason Menard]: I mean c'mon, look how Batman made Robin dress. Do you think he made him wear those short-shorts because they were practical? I don't think so.
Ummm... for distracting the bad guys maybe?
[Max]: In a past issue of ultimate Avengers
Oh, them. I thought we were talking about the real Avengers. :roll:
Seriously, Millar's take on the Avengers is not to my liking. Except maybe Thor, as I like that we don't even know if he's sane or not. Otherwise... ugh. Like or dislike though, I don't think they're similar enough to the originals to count as the same characters. Not for me, anyway.
[Jim]: (Then again there was a short period where Spidey had cosmic-type powers allowing him to fly and fire power beams, so you never know...)
[Max]really? When was this? I missed it.

Early nineties, I think. Here. Can't tell you much more; I just vaguely remember seeing the issues in the store.
Thanks for the Bendis news link. I hadn'theard most of that.
I think this is already out? I haven't really been keeping up.
I heard #1 came out and promptly sold out. I hadn't heard anything else, though - didn't rven realize it was by Bendis. I'll have to keep an eye open for it now...
Re: Supes vs. CM - I don't really remember the details now from Kingdom Come, so thanks for the info. As for Batman/Superman - well I see the quote "Marvel's powers are based on magic. Toe to toe he has the advantage." I'm not sure that translates as CM having more raw power. To me it sounds like CM uses magic, which S is specially vulnerable to, therefore CM has the advantage. But an edge is an edge I suppose. Though the subsequent Batman/Billy Batson scene also indicates Batman has no idea who Billy is, which was not the case in the past. So perhaps the writer here just doesn't know what he's talking about.
Actually I don't follow Superman much and know very little of CM, so I don't really have much of an opinion on this one. You just happened to name a couple issues I'd actualy read.
It's a great concept, though I don't really see much of it in Kingdom.
I suppose not, but there are superficial similarities at least. I heard (in an interview I believe) that Waid was somewhat mortified when he first heard about the Moore proposal (after he was well into the KC project), but felt better when he learned more details, as the projects weren't really that close.
Actually I remember that DC had an "Armageddon 2001" summer crossover back - oh, early 90's I think - which sounded like it might have owed a bit to the Twilight proposal as well. A DC Ragnarok, with time travlers back to the present warning of what was to come. Of course this basic setup has appeared once or twice elsewhere as well...
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
JY: Because Batman and Robin were never accused of having any gay subtext, no siree..
"Quick Robin! To the bat-pole!"
I mean c'mon, look how Batman made Robin dress. Do you think he made him wear those short-shorts because they were practical? I don't think so.

I always suspected that the writers were gay, and this was their in-joke .I remember thinking that @ 12 or so.
M
jason adam
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Well at least Northstar was "out" about it. But then I guess inuendos are much more fun if things aren't so clean cut...
And Sandman, dead? When the hell did this happen? Of course I haven't delved into Vertigo in quite some time, but I didn't see any mention of that on any of the sites I sometimes pop in to.
Jim Yingst
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Well at least Northstar was "out" about it.
Eventually. Byrne provided a clear subtext well before that, but Marvel didn't want him outed for a long time.
And Sandman, dead? When the hell did this happen? Of course I haven't delved into Vertigo in quite some time, but I didn't see any mention of that on any of the sites I sometimes pop in to.
Well the last storyline in the series was called The Wake. You'll want to check out The Kindly Ones before that. Of course Death doesn't mean quite the same thing to another member of the family.
Max Habibi
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And while we're on the subject, is it strange that I have a crush on Powergirl?
Michael Matola
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I've never been much interested in comic books, but Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay is a great read, which I highly recommend. (I read it because I like Chabon's writing.)
Max Habibi
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It sounds really good: I ordered it on the spot. Thanks for the recommendation
Richard Hawkes
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Some people don't like theories about Batman and Robin being gay. They take their heroes very seriously. I thought this defensive article was quite funny:
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/soapbox/103083308944329.htm
Batman does not wear tights. He wears body armor.

... so there
Michael Matola
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MH: It sounds really good: I ordered it on the spot. Thanks for the recommendation
Whoa, hey. No one ever reads what I recommend. (What gives?)
Free ticket, Max. Recommend something for me if you like and I'll read it.
(I read A Separate Peace years ago, so that's out.) (Also scratch Gravity's Rainbow and Infinite Jest -- two books on my shelf that I've started reading a half dozen times, got a couple hundred pages in, and never have been able to finish. Unless you want to challenge me to finish them...)
[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Matola ]
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Richard Hawkes:
Some people don't like theories about Batman and Robin being gay. They take their heroes very seriously. I thought this defensive article was quite funny:
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/soapbox/103083308944329.htm
... so there

Um, no offense, but I hope this guy's dusted up his rhetorical skills since writing that.
[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]
Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Michael Matola:
MH: It sounds really good: I ordered it on the spot. Thanks for the recommendation
Whoa, hey. No one ever reads what I recommend. (What gives?)
Free ticket, Max. Recommend something for me if you like and I'll read it.
[ April 20, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Matola ]


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