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An Italian(born) as Indian PM - - - > how about that

Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
World is becoming more and more a universal family.

Or is it that India is so open-minded this can happen only in India.
(I sure can not perceive similar stuff like Indian born becoming a President or PM in USA/UK)

Just my thoughts.


Kishore
SCJP, blog
sunitha reghu
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Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
(May I know WHY)?
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
(I sure can not perceive similar stuff like Indian born becoming a President or PM in USA/UK)

Just my thoughts.
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
I don't usually answer stuff that is obvious(it is sure not going to happen in our generation)
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
I sure can not perceive similar stuff like Indian born becoming a President or PM in USA/UK


I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:


Commentary From the Sidelines of history
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:


Why would you consider that as non-sense when the process is democratic.

[ Edgy rhetoric deleted. Please direct disagreements to the ideas and not the inferred character of the speaker. ]
[ May 13, 2004: Message edited by: Michael Ernest ]
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
sunitha raghu:

(May I know WHY)?

Well, the U.S. constitution requires that a person be born a citizen, as well as be at least 35 years of age, to be president.

There was some talk of trying to relax this requirement about the time a certain Austrian born U.S. citizen was elected governor of California.
achit bhatnager
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Joined: Apr 19, 2002
Posts: 50

World is becoming more and more a universal family.

Or is it that India is so open-minded this can happen only in India.


or is it because of 'politics of pedigree'?
What are the qualifications of Mrs. Sonia Gandhi except being a 'Gandhi'?
[ May 13, 2004: Message edited by: achit bhatnager ]

-----------------------------------<br />"Life is game,Cricket is serious."<br />-----------------------------------
Michael Ernest
High Plains Drifter
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 25, 2000
Posts: 7292

I think the US framers of the Constitution were pretty shrewd about this. A budding country with roots in colonialism could very easily be seen as up for grabs by extra-national political power and money. If all it took was a citizen at a time when the rules for citizenship were pretty relaxed, a puppet president wouldn't be so hard to imagine.

I would have thought before Reagan surely the whole *country* wouldn't be stupid enough to vote a former movie star President, much less a governor from California, but hey, one can easily go broke overestimating the intelligence of the American public.

On the bright side, since Reagan I've been able to shut down most needling Californian jokes with "yeah right, try to tell me you voted for Carter or Mondale in the 80's."


Make visible what, without you, might perhaps never have been seen.
- Robert Bresson
Don Stadler
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Joined: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 451
Originally posted by Michael Ernest:

I would have thought before Reagan surely the whole *country* wouldn't be stupid enough to vote a former movie star President, much less a governor from California, but hey, one can easily go broke overestimating the intelligence of the American public.


I would have thought that the level of civic virtue of the average actor higher than that of the average lawyer, but that hasn't stopped the american public from electing plenty of lawyers to the Presidency. Looking back on some of the past occupants (Johnson, Nixon, etc), I'm afraid I have to agree with Michael. But this idiocy is nothing new.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
World is becoming more and more a universal family.
Or is it that India is so open-minded this can happen only in India.
(I sure can not perceive similar stuff like Indian born becoming a President or PM in USA/UK)
Just my thoughts.

What is wrong in Italian born being Indian PM I don't understand.She has not come to India in last few months but here since last 35 years.This election has now proved that Indian voters don't care whether person is born in India or Italy.Bottomline is whether anybody for that post works efficiently and solves people's problem or not.


MH
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Bottomline is whether anybody for that post works efficiently and solves people's problem or not.[/QB]


The British were bloody efficient. By some estimates, 75% of the railway tracks in use in India today were laid during the Raj. Shall we invite them back?
Mohan Panigrahi
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Joined: Sep 28, 2001
Posts: 142
Whether indian voters are knuckleheads or apotheosis of open-mindedness, whether congress is more efficient or winds of change too strong...I cannot comment.

But when I look at the pathos that rule our relationships, I am left bereft of all doubts why she should not be the Indian premier.

Just consider..when a newly wed bride comes to your home, how do you receive her. Do you confine her to a bathroom, because she is not born part of your family? It is rather the opposite, that happens : She is given welcome with open arms, she is given the best room of the house and when she becomes comfortable with the ambience of your home, your mother gives her the key to the treasury.

Does the thought every cross your mind that she will break the faith and plunder the riches to pour over her relatives? Do you feel justified to ask her never to nourish the relationships with her kith and kin of the place she was born?

This lady has lived in this country for last 35 years, she has her children who have had no other identity than being indians, her husband has lived and died in this country ( I did not use for, just said [I}in{/I] ) will she desert all this? You can have as much faith on her as you can have faith on the inherent human integrity.

I would think that those nations are far greater at risk of loosing out to the world, whose premiers have qualified themselves as promiscuous dawdlers, money launderers and still allowed to be in office. They have been far greater at risk in placing their faith in those who erred than we placing our faith in those who could err.

Peace!
Sahir Shibley
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Joined: Apr 08, 2000
Posts: 275
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:


C.V. Devan Nair ex- president of Singapore is of Indian Origin

S.R. Nathan current president of Singapore is of Indian Origin

http://www.istana.gov.sg/president.html


Sir Anerood Jugnauth president of Mauritius is of Indian Origin .


Alberto Fujimori is Japanese.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/705482.stm
Mani Ram
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Joined: Mar 11, 2002
Posts: 1140
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:


So, it is okay for Indians to become Software Engineers in US, but it is nonsense for an Italian to become Prime Minister of India?
(Now, don't tell me about high profile posts, national security etc. It has been discussed many times before here. Give some good reasons).

Even I'm not happy to see Sonia Gandhi as the Prime Minister, but that has nothing to do with her foreign origin.


Mani
Quaerendo Invenietis
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:


I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:



What's wrong with Sonia?.How long she is living in India?.She is an very much an indian following indian culture more than 30 years even after Rajiv.She does'nt need to born as indian but she is an Indian on all other means.She showed it by her life.
Murasoli Maran
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Joined: Jun 08, 2003
Posts: 193
For me,birth in other country is not an issue at all.By life,she is an indian and she showed tremendous charector also after entering into politics.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Mani Ram:

Even I'm not happy to see Sonia Gandhi as the Prime Minister, but that has nothing to do with her foreign origin.

Exactly ,thats the opinion of many.Foriegn origin doesn't makes sense.Campaign against foriegn origin is clearly backfired as did highly perosonalized attacked from Modi and Jailalitha.Creaters of 'India Shining' ad must be given an award for worst advertising campaign in last 10 years.
Jeroen Wenting
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Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Is India practicing heridetary government leadership now?
Is she the 3rd or 4th Gandhi to hold the top spot?

There's a clear rule here: only people holding Dutch nationality may run for public office, a valid Dutch passport must be presented as proof of that when a party presents their list of candidates for every candidate.
During the last elections this led to one candidate of the socialist party having to be evicted from parliament after the elections when it was shown that the passport presented was a fake one.
For the upcoming European elections one party (an ultra-leftist party centered around animal rights as being more important than human rights, up to and including things like prohibiting the consumption of meat and the wearing of leather) tried to push a candidate who is Dutch but has no valid passport (he let it lapse and forgot to renew it). They had to drop their candidate and can't present a new one as the term for presenting candidates has closed.

Candidates do not have to be born here, but Dutch nationality is mandated (I think double nationality is not allowed, not quite sure).

Non-nationals may vote during lowlevel elections (city councils) if they can show to have lived here for an extended period (5+ years I think) but cannot hold office (leftists are trying to change that, which I violently oppose).


42
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
Is India practicing heridetary government leadership now?
Is she the 3rd or 4th Gandhi to hold the top spot?


I have nothing against Sonia Gandhi per se, but I would have been more happy about her coming into power if she had expressed some more genuine interest in public service, instead of leading a party because she is the widow of Rajiv Gandhi.

Now, to be honest, I don�t think Sonia Gandhi is leading India because she now belongs to Gandhi clan � even if that she was brought in to woo poor (read less-aware-of-international-media) Indians to vote because of the name.

Anyway, now that she is there, and her party have scored enough seats to offer a stable government, I am sure its all going to work out well. Well, yes, we will have to live with Westerners ridiculing us for the �dynasty rule�, even if we know it was a pure and fare democratic exercise.


[ flickr ]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Please make Rahul as PM but not Sonia.


Groovy
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Please make Rahul as PM but not Sonia.


don�t be so daft!
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
I for one am glad that such nonsense cant happen in other nations. :roll:


Sorry to inform that there are more than 36 nations who allows this including nations like Itlay, Israel ..


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:
By some estimates, 75% of the railway tracks in use in India today were laid during the Raj.


so sad.. they could not take the railway tracks, engines, bogies etc. back with them
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Originally posted by Ashok Mash:


don�t be so daft!


Marcus Green
arch rival
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Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
"so sad.. they could not take the railway tracks, engines, bogies etc. back with them"

Hmm trains might work better in UK if they had


SCWCD: Online Course, 50,000+ words and 200+ questions
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Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Hmm trains might work better in UK if they had


You wont reach your destination.
Jeroen Wenting
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Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:


You wont reach your destination.


but at least you'll depart
Joe King
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Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 820
The issue is basically rather simple -will candidate X be good for the country? If so, then it doesn't really matter what age/race/sex/nationality etc they are. Besides, the people have ample opportunity to vote against a particular candidate they don't think is suitable.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Originally posted by R K Singh:


Sorry to inform that there are more than 36 nations who allows this including nations like Itlay, Israel ..


Was any one of them ruled by foreign power?
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

The issue is basically rather simple -will candidate X be good for the country?


Not at all. The stock market has crashed. God save India.
Italy should outsource jobs to India for making Sonia as PM.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

national security etc


It is one of the issue but it is not trivial.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

She has not come to India in last few months but here since last 35 years.


Why did she take up the citizenship only after Rajiv became PM. :roll:
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Besides, the people have ample opportunity to vote against a particular candidate they don't think is suitable.


India is a really a complicated country. Not easy to explain, one needs to experience.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
Italy should outsource jobs to India for making Sonia as PM
}
Now US is outsourcing many jobs to India so will you allow US born to be PM of India? .
National security etc Can you elaborate? If she becomes PM then what kind of security breach can occur? Do you fear that she will invite Italian mafia,godfathers to India? .If she allows Italian restaurants to open here ,I am for it. .
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

{
Italy should outsource jobs to India for making Sonia as PM
}
Now US is outsourcing many jobs to India so will you allow US born to be PM of India? .


Not me but you will allow it to happen, right?


National security etc Can you elaborate? If she becomes PM then what kind of security breach can occur? Do you fear that she will invite Italian mafia,godfathers to India?

She has already this



.If she allows Italian restaurants to open here ,I am for it. .

Please open the restaurant. I will also come.

When Sonia becomes PM,it will be black day for India.

Ram Abdullah D'Souza ,

Congrats


Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
Besides, the people have ample opportunity to vote against a particular candidate they don't think is suitable.
}
Yep,and people excercise power of voting from time to time.This time MBAs,foriegn investors,IT people ,popular media had a lot of hopes on Vajpyaee and his party but alas, real people voted on non BJP side.There is nothing wrong in that.
{
When Sonia becomes PM,it will be black day for India
}
I think it should be considered as great day as Indians are allowing foriegn born for second most constitutionally important post.
[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: Ram Abdullah D'Souza ]
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Pradeep Bhat:
Why did she take up the citizenship only after Rajiv became PM. :roll:


Because Rajiv was doing Java/Oracle ceritifications and was thinking of going somewhere else for work? But then, he got employed as PM and they thought, Okay, why not stay then!
sunitha reghu
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Joined: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 937
Why people voted for congress and not for BJP.This article Caps posted before some days back will give the answer.





Caps: This time MBAs,foriegn investors,IT people ,popular media had a lot of hopes on Vajpyaee and his party but alas, real people voted on non BJP side.There is nothing wrong in that
[ May 14, 2004: Message edited by: sunitha raghu ]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Because Rajiv was doing Java/Oracle ceritifications and was thinking of going somewhere else for work


Give some good reason Sir!
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
Is India practicing heridetary government leadership now?
}
I don't think there is ay collective mentality over electing people from particular family.Last 5 years saw lot of foreign investment,computer related jobs,management jobs etc but common man had no place there.So people especially in cities were proBJP.Where as 'others' who were being laid off in thousands and became jobless were cluless why BJP govt is saying 'India shining'.That collective anger resulted in BJP's defeat.
 
It is sorta covered in the JavaRanch Style Guide.
 
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