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Why my post was deleted?

Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Why my second post was deleted from this thread?It wasn't containing name of any country other than India.


MH
Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Posts: 13974
I don't know. I think moderators should comment as to why they are using their powers. Otherwise it all seems very arbitrary.


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Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

Jason,

You had moved this thread to javaranch forum. Why is back again here?


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Because the thread was started here, so it belongs to this place.


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Jim Yingst
Wanderer
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Joined: Jan 30, 2000
Posts: 18671
Um, that's new logic for us, Map. I mean, we'd never move any threads at all if we held to that, would we? I'd think that this post does indeed belong in JR. However I'll leave it for now since the thread is probably tired from its journies.

Cap, I have no idea why your comment was removed, or what was in it. Like Tom, I'd like to see the more feedback from mods when they use their powers. At least, when someone posts a question like this, it would be nice if the moderator involved were available to comment. To be fair, it's possible that this person is simply busy at work right now. We can't all hover over our keyboards 24/7, after all. Not all of us, anyway.

It wasn't containing name of any country other than India.

Um, OK. I can imagine plenty of possible offensive posts that don't name any country but India. I can also imagine many possible inoffensive posts that name many countries. It's probably true that most times when you name another country explicitly, you increase the chances that someone will take offense. But this is far from an absolute rule. And if the increase is from 0.01% to 0.05%, it doesn't matter much. Same for an increase from 99.95% to 99.99% I suppose. Point is, the (potential) offensiveness of a post depends on plenty of things, not just whether countries are named.


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Sheriff

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Jim: Um, that's new logic for us, Map. I mean, we'd never move any threads at all if we held to that, would we?

I was talking about this particular thread?
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Why my second post was deleted from this thread?It wasn't containing name of any country other than India.


I read a recent post of Cap in that thread and it was subsequently deleted. Now, I dont know if this is the same post Cap is referring to but if it is, then it was rightfully deleted. It was quite offensive to US to say the least.

To paraphrase the actual post -

"India will not participate in this neo-colonial agression. India does not need this sh***."


Commentary From the Sidelines of history
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
{
India does not need this sh***.
}
You didn't read my post properly.
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
As a nonmoderator, I would like to vote for consistent treatment of threads like this - either they all get moved to the JavaRanch forum, or none of them do. Otherwise, it's hard for us to figure out what's appropriate to say where.
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Originally posted by Paul McKenna:

To paraphrase the actual post -
"India will not participate in this neo-colonial agression."

Then what should I write? "Indian soldiers are loosing an opportunity to intimidate Iraqi prisoners"?
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:

Then what should I write? "Indian soldiers are loosing an opportunity to intimidate Iraqi prisoners"?


If your content was anything like Paul stated, if it was representative of the above comment, or anything like your comment towards me in that thread, then it is pretty clear to me why you were deleted. You may never have read this document, but it addresses what steps you might take when a post is deleted. Since you know what you typed, the smart thing to do IMHO would be to simply restate your message in a way that is not likely to get it deleted, if you feel it's that important.

And while you bring up the subject of moderation, with 702 posts to your name, I'm surprised that none of the mods has asked you about your display name.
[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Joined: Jul 08, 2000
Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Then what should I write? "Indian soldiers are loosing an opportunity to intimidate Iraqi prisoners"?


You could have made your point without the use of aggressive language. It is exactly that kind of aggressive language which will provoke others to retaliate with more of the same. If your intent is to instigate then you just found out how futile that is.. if not, you just didnt use the right language in expressing yourself.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Great,so some facts about some countries should be told in different way as they are difficult to digest for some group of people.
Thanks
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:
Great,so some facts about some countries should be told in different way as they are difficult to digest for some group of people.
Thanks


Cap, It is not good to ridicule entire nation or entire people based on some isolated incidents. If you do that and if you like that, then expect the response in kind. It is better to put the words in polite manner and not to offend anyone. Just my 2 paisa..
Arjun Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1874
Its different to criticize the nation and its fudamentals than to criticize some policies of nation.I am doing later.
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Its different to criticize the nation and its fudamentals than to criticize some policies of nation.I am doing later.


If that is the case, AFAIK, it is acceptable as per the forum rule. But my objection was to your following post..


Then what should I write? "Indian soldiers are loosing an opportunity to intimidate Iraqi prisoners"?


IMHO, it was unnecessary...
Homer Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
Arjun we would love to discuss politics and neo-colonialism with you. Would you like to discuss Goa? Have you washed the glass in your house lately?
[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Homer Phillips ]
San Su
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
Arjun we would love to discuss politics and neo-colonialism with you. Would you like to discuss Goa? Have you washed the glass in your house lately?

[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Homer Phillips ]


If you want to discuss about Goa or whether he washed the glass in his house, feel free to start a thread (if moderators allow it) or do email conversation with him... Why ask in a thread? :roll:
[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Sankar Subbiah ]
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8919

So is arjun your real name?
:roll:
Homer Phillips
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
Why ask in a thread?


My point is that his post was deleted because there are people about the ranch that are willing, able and happy to trade ignorant blows with people who find the US's behavior in Iraq offensive. IMO, my less than gentle goading is germane to this thread.

His post was deleted because somebody thought it was over the line. Deleting it easily saves the moderators a lot of headaches.

I think India's invasion of Goa in the 60's is neo-colonialism and people in glass houses should not throw rocks.
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:

I think India's invasion of Goa in the 60's is neo-colonialism and people in glass houses should not throw rocks.


Nice.. What rights do the Portugease(spelling?) have in the first place? FYI, people in Goa were fight against Portugease rule and wanted to join India (like the way other Indian territories fought against the British). When India got freedom from British, other colonial empire, france, left peacefully by giving the land it occupied in India back to the Indian federation. Only exception is the protugease. India was negotiating with them for nearly 13-15 years. No response. The end result is all to see..
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
..India's invasion of Goa in the 60's..


Goa is run by a 'high'ly organised group of hippies who didn't like the coming of 80's. They believe India is owned by some King and ColdWar is still on)

Me think mods are planning world domination! Map is preparing the 'We own your collective lazy a*ses' announcement, Jim and others getting their 'Judge' training and many techies and geeks frequently visits here hopping to get their code included in the final Matrix build.


[ flickr ]
Anand Prabhu
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Joined: Dec 19, 2003
Posts: 299
I am from Goa. We do not consider the entry of the Indian army to liberate us from the Portuguese (especially the rule of Salazar) as a neo-colonial act. True, there are still some people (some upper caste Catholics and Hindu Brahmins) who rue the lost privileges and make some noises. I can confidently say that we Goans (apprx 70% Hindus, 30% Catholics) are more than proud to be Indians and we celebrate Dec 19th every year as liberation day.
paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20535
    ∞

(skipping a lot of stuff in this thread due to time constraints ...)

I think it is okay for a moderator to remove a thread and not say why. It is debatable whether a moderator should or should not. If a modertator says "I removed this because" then the moderator is subjected to a bunch of hassle from all sorts of people about whether it was right or not. Then the next time the modertor is faced with a decision about removing a thread, the moderator might think "do I really want to go through all of that hassle again?" I prefer that moderators in this forum be a bit heavier on the delete key and that posters be a little more careful about what they say so that their posts are less likely to get deleted.

If you are going to talk about religion or politics, it seems that you should choose your words much more carefully than if you are, say, talking about how good your oatmeal was this morning.


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Thomas Paul
mister krabs
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Joined: May 05, 2000
Posts: 13974
Originally posted by Anand Prabhu:
I can confidently say that we Goans (apprx 70% Hindus, 30% Catholics) are more than proud to be Indians and we celebrate Dec 19th every year as liberation day.
Most of the Catholic priests coming to the US from India are from Goa. I can tell you many stories about how holy and dedicated these men are.
Sadanand Murthy
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Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Posts: 382
Originally posted by Thomas Paul:
Most of the Catholic priests coming to the US from India are from Goa. I can tell you many stories about how holy and dedicated these men are.


Goa & Kerala have the largest percentage population of Christians in India. Almost all such Christians are Roman Catholics. And I do believe that the majority of the cloth from there are very dedicated.


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Bhau Mhatre
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
AP: I can confidently say that we Goans (apprx 70% Hindus, 30% Catholics) are more than proud to be Indians and we celebrate Dec 19th every year as liberation day.

TP: Most of the Catholic priests coming to the US from India are from Goa. I can tell you many stories about how holy and dedicated these men are.

Though I am unable to understand the link between Anand's post and Thomas's subsequent reply quoting him, I would like to hear some of those stories


-Mumbai cha Bhau
Homer Phillips
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
What rights do the Portugease(spelling?) have in the first place?


300 or 400 years ago taking over a place like Goa was all the rage. It certainly isn't neo. I'm not saying it was right or wrong. I will say I think the Indian subcontinent has in some ways been made a better place by colonial powers.

So when 13 years of negotiations failed India sent in the troops. How long did Saddam flout the will of the United Nations? Did the Indian Parliment pass a resolution authorizing the action?
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
I will say I think the Indian subcontinent has in some ways been made a better place by colonial powers.


Says who??? It is your personal opinion, not the Indians. If you ask the Indians, the majority would say otherwise (except very few who got benefited by the foreign rule)



So when 13 years of negotiations failed India sent in the troops.


I would say, India waited too long. It should have kicked the portuguease immediately after couple of years of negotiation instead of negotiation with them politely for 13 years (to get back our own territory).


How long did Saddam flout the will of the United Nations? Did the Indian Parliment pass a resolution authorizing the action?


Iraq is not an Indian territory and the people there were not fighting against sadam to join India. So, India need not to pass a resolution to invade Iraq. If America compel to send a troop there, more power to them. I have very conflicting view on the whole Iraqi thingy. So, I stayed away from the Iraq threads. I am not going to comment about it here either.

Just because some Indians say something about Iraq, don't drag Goa or any other Indian territory into the equation. That doesn't make any sense.
Homer Phillips
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Joined: May 26, 2004
Posts: 311
It is your personal opinion, not the Indians.

On this board they think it is nice if you let people have and express their opinions in a polite manner. Says Who? indicates my opinion is next to worthless. I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.
should have kicked the portuguease immediately
Yeah they should have done it in the 1600s. I don't believe the Portugese had any obligation to hold a plebicite to collect the opinions of the presidents of Goa. Goa was Portugese property. I beleive people who tell others what to do with their property should mind their own business.
Just because some Indians say something about Iraq,

Indians are pretty much free to speak their mind on this board if they follow the rules. People that overrun other peoples territories and then say others that do it are neo-colonialist, are offensive. When they say it in an offensive manner, that is doubly offensive.

Iraq was in clear violation of UN resolutions. George Bush acted with the advice and consent of the US Congress. I cannot say I am all together happy with how thing have turned out so far. But I am proud of the US'es action. I think the US'es conduct in comparison to a country that overruns Goa in a sneek attack is noble and admirable.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.


Do you guys still want to debate with Rufus in disguise?
Bhau Mhatre
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Joined: Jun 11, 2003
Posts: 199
Homer Philips: I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.

Hey, what do you mean if the British had not ... Indian would still be...

We ARE still a bunch of tribes with multiple languages and backward forms of government. Unless you missed our recent elections.. in which case you are forgiven for assuming that we learnt our lessions and are any better today after 300 years of the Raj And 40 years of another Raj


HP: Iraq was in clear violation ...

PMK:Do you guys still want to debate with Rufus in disguise?

Paul, I thought Rufus a) Was a democrat and b) did not like Bush (two independant qualities, am not trying to mix them). Homer seems like a friend in disguise for you -a right winger.

But it does not matter. Let's analyse and debate the issues, not the aliases.
[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Bhau Mhatre ]
San Su
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Joined: Jul 06, 2001
Posts: 313
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:
On this board they think it is nice if you let people have and express their opinions in a polite manner. Says Who? indicates my opinion is next to worthless. I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.


Some times it matters who say about certain things. We Indians have first hand (well,not exactly first hand) experience about the colonial rule. We are the victims and the history is there all to see what really happend to one of the richest country in the world. If you believe in what a British guy say, that is fine with me. But that doesn't change the history or what people think about them (and if you think my statement is offensive, I don't know how to engage in a discussion with you other than accepting all you say).


I think the US'es conduct in comparison to a country that overruns Goa in a sneek attack is noble and admirable.


Well.. Keep on admiring. Yea.. our's is sneak and cowardly act :roll:
If he continue in this manner, I am going to agree with Paul.
Paul McKenna
Ugly Redneck
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Posts: 1006
Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
Homer seems like a friend in disguise for you -a right winger.


Ah.. two things. First, the identity of the poster does matter in this case simply because the poster is trying to instigate a quarrel. We all know that most Americans do not think about India as a neo-colonial entity just as much as we all know that most Indians do not judge America or its people by the act of a few crazy soldiers. Now, if one were to overlook the identity of this poster (I do not claim to know his identity but am merely making a judgement based upon the pattern of posts), the debate can continue pointlessly. On the other hand, if we recognize the pattern and acknowledge that some people are not worth debating with.. we can perhaps channel that time and energy into something more worthwhile.

Second, I am not a "right-winger" in the way you [i]perhaps[/p] meant it. I am a Conservative. The Conservative philosophy happens to lie on the right side of the spectrum but so does Fascism. The term "right-winger" more often than not is applied to fascists, which I am not. This is a distinct difference to bear in mind, though I admit it is often the subject of much confusion as you have too many fascists disguising themselves as conservatives.

Finally, I do not object to Homer Phillips posting under whatsoever alias etc.. but he is by no means a "friend in disguise". I would think it is quite allright to question the actions of another nation, but it is altogether different to insult the nation. Be it India or America!
Nick George
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 815
Originally posted by Ram Abdullah D'Souza:

Then what should I write? "Indian soldiers are loosing an opportunity to intimidate Iraqi prisoners"?



Just to note: This is being incorrectly quoted as being said by Ram Abdullah D'Souza. This is evident in a couple quotes of that passage. As far as I can tell, Ram has had no part in this discussion.
Not to nitpick, but if you're looking for irritating people to point out bugs to fight with...

-Joe
[ June 14, 2004: Message edited by: Joseph George ]

I've heard it takes forever to grow a woman from the ground
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Joseph George:
Just to note: This is being incorrectly quoted as being said by Ram Abdullah D'Souza. This is evident in a couple quotes of that passage. As far as I can tell, Ram has had no part in this discussion.
Not to nitpick, but if you're looking for irritating people to point out bugs to fight with...


Ram changed his display name. Posts made quoting messages from him posted prior to the change in display name will quite naturally reflect the former name.
Rashmi Tambe
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Joined: Aug 07, 2001
Posts: 418
Originally posted by Homer Phillips:

I think India's invasion of Goa in the 60's is neo-colonialism and people in glass houses should not throw rocks.

People that overrun other peoples territories and then say others that do it are neo-colonialist, are offensive.


You r missing a basic point here. Goa was never a Portuguese teritory; Portuguese ppl invaded goa back in 16th century when they visited india. Goa originally belonged to indian subcontinent. ppl living there were indians; so they had all the rights to choose their ruler as indian and not Portuguese.

So when u say that india overrun the Portuguese teritory, it shows the lack of knowledge abt indian history. AND u r being very offensive here...

Originally posted by Homer Phillips:

I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.


We indians dont care abt what the british ppl say abt us. No matter what they say, the fact still remins: we threw them out of our country, so they dont have any right to say what they say abt us.

And i am really surprised abt the moderators!
when ppl make any comments (offensive or not) abt any country other than india, the post is deleted immediately. But when offensive comments like above r made abt india, moderators dont care... So is it only the US they care abt???

So anybody is allowed to make any offensive comment abt any country other than US? is that the ranch rule?
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
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Posts: 4118
Originally posted by Rashmi Tambe:

And i am really surprised abt the moderators!
when ppl make any comments (offensive or not) abt any country other than india, the post is deleted immediately. But when offensive comments like above r made abt india, moderators dont care... So is it only the US they care abt???

So anybody is allowed to make any offensive comment abt any country other than US? is that the ranch rule?


yep, you figured us out.

But let's pretend we are fairminded. Drop me a note with your points, and I'll give it a second consideration.

M


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Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Bhau Mhatre:
Homer Philips: I liked the comment from the British guy that said if the British had not overrun the place, Indian would still be a bunch of tribes with multiple languages, currencyies, and backward forms of government.

Hey, what do you mean if the British had not ... Indian would still be...

We ARE still a bunch of tribes with multiple languages and backward forms of government. Unless you missed our recent elections.. in which case you are forgiven for assuming that we learnt our lessions and are any better today after 300 years of the Raj And 40 years of another Raj




Like the humour. India continues despite all of the above.


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Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
Rashmi: And i am really surprised abt the moderators!

Well, when I checked this thread, Homer Phillips' escapada already was quoted several times, so if I edited it out, I would have to edit other folk posts too. I didn't want to, because I was impressed how calmly people responded to the obnoxious post.

To Homer Phillips: please, quit posting provocations. One is more than enough.
 
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subject: Why my post was deleted?