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A point of sports etiquette

Helen Thomas
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Is it polite to vocalize your support for the away team at a sporting event?
Isn't it downright rude to cheer only for your own team ? Some claim that it is perfectly acceptable to cheer for your own team but not to boo the home team.
Just how much should a robust, informed and opinionated audience get involved in the event.

Safety is a concern with no sets of rules on how to show appreciation or disappointment in the game.

The same rules should apply at home watching a game.


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"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
Helen Thomas
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Well it depends. Are we talking about Football (Soccer), Football (American), Baseball, or Basketball?



Does it really matter which game ?
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Does it really matter which game ?


Yes, it seems to. Some sports -- golf and tennis come to mind -- have their own particular cheering ethos altogether.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Helen Thomas
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


No, It actually doesn't really matter.

Sorry for the confusion.
I didn't mean to be off-putting. Sorry.
As Ernest said golf and tennis are very etiquette-prone. I should think out of regard for the safety of spectators.

If some Sox fans were co-erced into going with co-workers to a game played at the Cubs home ground (wherever that is) or even watching it on TV it won't do for them to support their own team ? Perhaps they shouldn't even be wearing their team's gear ? Or clap just a little to show their support ?
Or boo their team's opponents now and then ? What sort of behaviour would you expect ?
[ September 28, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Marc Peabody
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Etiquette in Chicago???

Just realize that the more outspoken you are as a visitor surrounded by a home crowd the more chance that some lunatic from the home crowd will say or do something that will embarass you and possibly create an awkward moment for any decent human being in the immediate area.

You could wear whatever Sox stuff you want. Cheer for your team all you want. Taunting the home team with obscenities might be a bad idea but I have a feeling that anyone concerned with etiquette in the first place wouldn't be doing that any time soon.


A good workman is known by his tools.
Bacon
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I see nothing wrong with cheering for whomever you like. Obviously, if you are at a golf tournament and folks are only clapping politely then have a little sense and go with the flow. Cheering is part of most sporting events. Some folks, like in many other aspects of life, do not know or care where the line is. Some fans have no common sense at all, throwing things, yelling obscenities, fighting. I've heard people say "I hate so and so fans! That�s absolutely ridiculous. It is a GAME for crying out loud. Games are for fun.

Just go: have fun, yell and scream, make a fool of yourself if you want to. Just don't be a jerk.

My $.02
Helen Thomas
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If the Sox are in a winning season (that�s rare) Cub fans don�t care one way or another.

That must rile the White Sox fans. Let's hope they both draw in any major league event. I'd hate to think what might happen otherwise.
Nick George
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why the hell would I cheer for a team I want to lose?!


I've heard it takes forever to grow a woman from the ground
Alan Wanwierd
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Interesting question...

I think almost without question cheering for the team you favour is accepted (within the boundaries perculiar to the sport - i.e. observing the "quiet please" requests during tennis at Wimbledon..)

Certainly the home advantage is only a home advantage because of the vocal support of the fans, and its the difference between home and away fixtures that make many sports a little more interesting than they would otherwise be.

The question really comes into play when discussing how to behave toward the opposition. Boo-ing and Jeering CAN be acceptable in some environments, but only when such taunts are really made in comedy, i.e. Crowd in a soccer game all singing "You're S**t - and you know you are.." after a particularly wayward shot... or English fans singing "..Get your stars off our flag.." at England v Australia cricket games...

When the taunts become more serious, there starts to be more of an ugly side and it looks more like poor sportsmanship - i.e. racial taunts that many black soccer players faced in the 80's were clearly unacceptable (waving of large inflatable bananas and crowds making monkey noises) , and attitudes towards those of particular unfavoured nationalities continue to cross a line.... Boo-ing of referees is also a bit of an ugly side of crowd behaviour (as Urs Meir who unfortunatly made the mistake of disallowing a perfectly good looking goal to see England ejected from Euro2004 tournament discovered - he's had to go into a hiding ever since for fear of retribution). I think when a crowd starts to get nasty towards their opponents then theres a danger that emotiuons can overflow and you end up with situations like a recent italian soccer game that was abandonned after the referee was struck by something thrown from the crowd, or even the maddness felt by any team playing away fixtures in Turkey where round the clock bodyguards are necessary and players frequently have to defend themselves from a barrage of objects thrown from an agreesive crowd..


Every now and then however, a remarkable thing does happen in crowd behaviour and opposition supporters recognise a particular moment of brilliance - this can lead to polite (although usualy restrained) acknowledgment - often a brief applause. When this happens it is a victory for sport as a whole it shows people can every now and then drop the tribal gamesmanship and show real appreciation for excellence. Strangely enough this seems to happen more in individual sports (Tennis, Golf) than team sports.. but it does happen...
Hussein Baghdadi
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my small list of etiquettes :
1. don't forget to bring with you some empty bottles.
2. don't forget your share of small stones.
3. don't forget your small swiss army knife in order to make a friendly chat with other fans !
4. Judu course will be a bounos
Helen Thomas
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Golf is used a lot in business networking. Tennis used to be in my father's day not so much anymore. The blood letting is a bit more subtle in these sports but no less devastating.
With cricket it would not have been unusual to find a home crowd clapping politely if an away team did well but it's rare now.
[ September 29, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Helen Thomas
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Good sportsmanship in sports relate to everyday leadership off the sports field.

I am not sure I agree with this statement - take Sebastian Coe for example.
Ever since he entered politics he just doesn't seem to do anything right.He's on the committee to bring the Olympics to London in 2000 whenever and I have serious misgivings that he has any chance of succeeding. Better to have left it to that American woman.
Read some of today's sporting autobiographies and you'll see what I mean.(Kris Akabussi,Roger Black disappoint continuously off the field)
Nasser Hussain is held in high esteem for bringing English cricket from back of the brink to what it is today. Nasser has an autobiography out any time soon and that's going to reveal that he has hated playing cricket all along.
At least he retired before he could undo all his good work but it's difficult to see what other line of work he'd be suitable for.

J.K Rowling earned her �430 million fortune modelling the Harry Potter stories around a cousin, now penniless, who went to boarding school when JK was growing up.
Not sportsmanship!
[ September 29, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
I am not sure I agree with this statement - take Sebastian Coe for example.
Ever since he entered politics he just doesn't seem to do anything right.He's on the committee to bring the Olympics to London in 2000 whenever and I have serious misgivings that he has any chance of succeeding. Better to have left it to that American woman.


The British STILL are trying to get the 2000 Olympics to London?


42
Helen Thomas
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2000 whenever....
I couldn't remember whether it's 2008 or 2012 that they are aiming for.
OK 2008 has gone to China.

The Ryder Cup was a good example of teammanship. The European team were just that - a team, whereas the Americans revealed how much they were uncomfortable in each others company. Some even practised alone!
The European win has taken aback the Eurosceptics. Individually the players were not as good as the Americans but they more than made up for it in camaraderie, and the entire shebang was brilliantly masterminded by a German.
John Dunn
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I couldn't agree more Jesse. Why doesn't somebody just drop the ol' bomb on those basta**s!!!


"No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does."
Helen Thomas
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Hey , I like reading that bit of navel inspection on the
post that has now disappeared. I was going to add a comment from PJ O'Rourke that made it into our broadsheets, now I can't.
r phipps
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I am a big cub fan living in Indianapolis and attended The Cubs- Reds game in Cincy on September 18th and there were more Cubs Fans than Reds fans in attendence, Cubs fans were supporting the cubs but not booing the reds. But in the middle innings a red's fan said something bad about the Cubs thingking he was at a home game, but he was in for a rude awaking.
Helen Thomas
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Originally posted by r phipps:

But in the middle innings a red's fan said something bad about the Cubs thingking he was at a home game, but he was in for a rude awaking.


What happened ?

Jesse, do you want me to start a home improvements thread ? I found intriguing the comment that in America keeping up with the Joneses was more like Overtaking the Joneses. Why should your counterparts resent that ? In Europe or Britain, at least, it's keeping up appearances be it Joneses, Kumars, Shariffs and (to borrow from PJ O'Rourke) Frog-Eaters, Limey Poofters, Bucket Heads etc.

PJ O'Rourke's comment was about Americas attitude to foreigners and foreign policy. You'd have to look it up on his site. I think it was a sly dig at European attitudes to fp but I cannot be sure.
[ September 29, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Helen Thomas
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


Can you please commence a topic on keeping up with the Joneses, the American and European versions?

Thanks,


How about a thread on fox hunting and see whether your fellow Americans can keep up with that ?
Helen Thomas
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Glasgow Rangers fans can empathise with the Sox fans.
They suffer from headaches, anxiety and insomnia as a result of constantly losing to their bitter rivals Celtic. Stress levels among Celtic fans are virtually non-existent by contrast.
Joe King
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


Do Football (soccer) teams in the UK ever play the teams in Italy, Spain, or Germany


Yes. There's several competitions in Europe that teams from different European countries enter. The most famous is the Champions League, which used to be a competition which the winners of the leagues from all the European countries entered, but now it is open to more teams (for example four teams enter each year from England). There is also the Cup Winner's Cup for teams that have won domestic cup competitions across Europe, and the UEFA cup which is a bit of a bodge job - a conciliation competition for clubs that weren't quite good enough to get into the other competitions. Although Europeans generally like these competitions, there is a general feeling that they have been watered down a bit by the inclusion of too many teams, in particular the Champions League, where last season the neither of the two finalists were actually champions in their own leagues!

particularly the new team that Beckham joined?


A similar situation happened last night when Chelsea (team from London) played Porto (from Portugal) in the Champions League. There was a lot of interest in the game because Chelsea's new manager recently walked out on Porto to join Chelsea.
Helen Thomas
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There was a lot of interest in the game because Chelsea's new manager recently walked out on Porto to join Chelsea.

Yes I believe someone spat on him before the game started.
Bacon
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This didn't happen during a sporting event, but if it was a fan, it is WAY out of bounds!
Stan James
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For many years the only sports I've attended were for my kids. In the youth soccer league a coach or parent will congratulate a player of either team for a good move. It's a nice bunch.


A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Joe King
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:
Which Football team is the most revered in Europe?


In terms of "revering" most people only really have a strong like for teams in their own country. There are some teams like Manchester United and Real Madrid who have done a good job of marketing themselves in other countries, but by and large people only really follow teams from their own country. Even within each individual country support is fairly divided. Here in the UK just about every kid in the country claims to support Manchester United or Arsenal, but they soon grow out of it and support a proper team .

The level of support within the various countries varies as well. Within each country there is a system of several different leagues that teams can move from, for example a team can be promoted from the second division to the first division etc. In most European countries the bulk of the support goes to the teams in the top division, with little support in the lower leagues. England is a bit different in that it has a very large system of leagues, and a large amount of support for lower teams. The team I support (Reading), for example, are in the 2nd league down and traditionally seen as a very small team, but still average 15,000 fans at home games. While this isn't a lot compared to the bigger teams, in many other European countries, teams in lower leagues would only attract a couple of thousand fans each game. In total there are 92 professional teams (in four divisions) in England, and even the lowest of them would expect over a thousand fans every week.


Also, what is the season schedule for Football? For example, Baseball in U.S runs from April to October.


The season begins in August and finishes in May. Each team will normally play once or twice a week, with on game usually on a Saturday at 3pm. This can change if a Sky want to show the game, as they aren't allowed to show a game on a Saturday during the normal time of 3pm-5pm. This means that some of the popular teams in the top league often play on other days. As well as these league games (where every team plays every other team once at home and once away from home) there are two domestic cup competitions. The top teams may also have games in European competitions, but they have a bit more time for this as the top division is smaller than the other divisions. There are also occasional breaks in the schedule to allow international games to be played. All in all its pretty much a feast of football from August to May, and then in some years there is the World Cup or European Championship (like the World Cup, but just for European teams).
[ October 01, 2004: Message edited by: Joe King ]
Joe King
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Originally posted by Jesse Torres:

Generally speaking, Football (Soccer) is widely considered a kids sport in America. For instance, most grade schoolers play Football as a right of passage. Once they reach their teenage years, they abandon the game for other sports.


Strangely its almost the opposite here - kids will often play softball at school but then rarely play it later on in life. Football is played pretty much all the time though- give two kids (well, boys mainly) something round and they almost instinctively kick it

The new MLS (Major League Soccer) is experiencing a boom in ratings.


Slightly topically, the team I follow have got an American goalkeeper (Marcus Hahnemann) and have just recently signed a young player from MLS called Bobby Convey. I'd never heard of him before, but I've been told that most followers of MLS have heard of him. He also recently played for the US national side. My team were very pleased in signing him, because a player of similar skill in Europe would probably have cost more money (we paid about $1,200,000). I wonder if this kind of thing will become more common as MLS improves and more European teams look for new talent in America.
Helen Thomas
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American sports tycoon Malcolm Glazer is thought to be making a bid for Man U worth �650 million ($1.2 billion). Actuall �800 million today.
[ October 05, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
 
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