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Fast and Furous, need turbo mode

Gerald Davis
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
I am wondering how they make those Honda Civics type-r go turbo in the film fast and furious, I didn't even know that you guys had them in the States. I have this old Golf GTI I want it to have turbo mode also. Does anyone know how to go about doing this. I think they use gas or something, hydrogen or liquid oxygen.
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

I believe it's Nitrous Oxide (laughing gas) fed straight into the combustion chamber. I'm not aware of anywhere in the world where it's legal to drive one of these on the streets. I imagine it would be a fairly expensive conversion process too. See old episodes of The A Team for more information
Gerald Davis
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Thanks dude, when I was asking this question I honestly thought that turbo charging a car like this was pure fictional and I was asking a stupid question.

Look what I have found. http://www.noswizard.com/carnitrous.php

The lesson I have learned is, the benefits of asking a stupid question can often out weigh the costs.
Peter Rooke
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 805

A few other tricks:

1) Fit a Turbo unit, a turbo just pulls air through a engine, it creates a vacuum that sucks the exhaust fumes out.
2) Fit a wider [bore] exhaust system, best ones are straight through.
3) Put a gearbox from a smaller engine car into yours, you have then changed the gearing, so that you can accelerate faster. Of course you will lose top end speed.
4) Get your cylinders re-bored to a larger size, more CC = more horsepower.
5) Fit specialist air filters / carburetor (K&N etc). [cheap option ]
6) Get your car engine race tuned, best done on a rolling road.
7) Fit specialist cam shaft(s) (and cam belt), crankshaft etc.
8) Reduce the weight of your car.
9) Lastly, fit a bigger engine (you may not be able to do this to a Golf GTI, without cutting into the bulkhead etc).

Nitrous Oxide - will only give you busts of power (the drag racers use this stuff) - not sure if you can use it on the roads in the UK.

Don't forget to improve the brakes and suspension systems as well!

The old Golf GTI was great car, Renult 5 Turbos when faster, but the Golf had better built quality. What model have you got?
[ December 19, 2004: Message edited by: Peter Rooke ]

Regards Pete
Helen Thomas
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Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Torque - the Fast and Furious on motorbikes.
But this wasn't what you were asking...


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"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
In many ways an engine is an air pump. Most anything you can do to get air in faster or out faster is better. Lower resistance intake or exhaust, larger valves, opening the valves further or longer all help. Go far enough with those tricks you'll get real race car shake and misfire at normal speeds which is either undrivable or real fun depending on your attitude.

Turbochargers use the exhaust gas to spin a little turbine so that another turbine on the same shaft compresses the intake. It adds to exhaust resistance, but pays off in intake "boost" ... up to a point where the boost adds too much heat. Superchargers do much the same thing with a mechanical drive off the engine instead of exhaust power. One of my friends put twin turbos on a small-block Chevy located in the back seat of a Manx dune-buggy. No mufflers, just big ole pipes out the top, over the back deck. By the time they spun up for good boost you wanted out of the car real bad. Heh heh.

Don't know much about nitrous ... back when I had wild & crazy friends it was pretty exotic. Don't think you could buy it for non-medical purposes.


A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Ray Marsh
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Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Nitrous Oxide NO2 provides copious amounts of oxygen to the engine. What you don't see is the blown head gaskets, burned out piston rings and valves. Nitrous makes the combustion very hot, an unfortunate side effect that causes a huge increase in engine maintenance. Only in the movies can you kick in the nitrous any time you want for insane bursts of speed. In F&F-2 it looked like a space ship making the jump to light speed... ridiculous.

A turbo charger is a device that is powered by the engines exhaust. The exhaust turns turbines that are connected to another turbine or fan that draws in air to the engine. A blower (those big things that you see sticking out of the hoods of some hot-rods) are powered by the crank-shaft and also draw (force) air into the engine. The same idea, just a different source of power to move the air.

A turbo-charger on a standard engine can work. Ideally you would change the pistons to a lower compression ratio to maximize the power output, but a bolt on charger should produce a good deal more power. Heat can be a problem too. When you start generating more power, you generate more heat too.

The bottom line is building a hotrod can be fun, but it is expensive and there is a lot more to it than you may know.


Anxiety does not empty tomorrow of its sorrows, but only empties today of its strength. – Charles Spurgeon
Gerald Davis
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Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
Only in the movies can you kick in the nitrous any time you want for insane bursts of speed. In F&F-2 it looked like a space ship making the jump to light speed... ridiculous.
.


I guess it ware fiction all along just like vidoe phones.
Angela Poynton
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Joined: Mar 02, 2000
Posts: 3143
WHY? WHY? WHY? Do people want Turbo Engines on their normal cars?
A standard engine will get you to the speed limit, why do you need more?
They're noisy and waste of money!
Don't do it, buy some furry dice instead!


Pounding at a thick stone wall won't move it, sometimes, you need to step back to see the way around.
David O'Meara
Rancher

Joined: Mar 06, 2001
Posts: 13459

Yes, I did neglect to mention the other down sides to nitrous... except the fact it's probably illegal.

Speaking of local laws, turbochargers are legal, superchargers are not.

Since turbo is powered by the exhaust, there is a delay in it 'kicking in' since it has to wait for the exhaust to be created by the engine and then be passed though. There is also a lot of loss since it's just a fan driven by the exhaust. This makes turbochargers more effective at higher revolutions, but less effective at lower revs. They also tend to have a 'power band' of effectiveness, so they are effective in a range of revolutions but decreased effectiveness outside. It is theoretically possible to stagger turbines with overlapping power bands. I've heard of it, but never seen it.

Superchangers, as stated, are powered by the engine. They have immediate response and suffer no loss of energy like that in the turbo 'fan'. They are therefore more useful in street racing where acceleration at low reverlutions is an issue and probably the reason they are banned locally, although rumour is you can get them fitted on the opposite coast (of Oz) and bring it back, as long as it never gets inspected by the police and never goes in for a safety check...

I guess my final word would be that modifying an engine is like overclocking a computer. It'll probably work, it'll be expensive, and when it fails it'll probably ruin everything else so you'll be luck if you have the box it came in.

Postscript: We did some calculations years ago and worked out my old Ford Laser was a few inches too small for the spare V8 engine a friend had sitting around. That would have been silly. Fun, but silly.
Ray Marsh
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Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Those well stated reasons and others (like the price of gas) are why I would rather own a 65 Mustang convertible with a staight six. I'd take it out on sunny days (1 of the 50 or so we get per year in Rochester, NY), wipe it with a cloth diaper and drive it ever so carefully up and down the road. I'd take it to picnics and ball games where my friends could admire it and then put it safely back in its box at night. Maybe being 41 and not 17 has something to do with my change is perspective. Don't get me wrong... I still get a thrill out of hearing a big block growl. I just don't have as big a desire to won one anymore.
Paul Sturrock
Bartender

Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 10336


except the fact it's probably illegal

You can legally modify your engine this way in the UK.

I saw a Honda R6 the other day which had nitro tanks on the back. For those of you who don't know what an R6 is, its a motorcycle.


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Ray Marsh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by David O'Meara:
Postscript: We did some calculations years ago and worked out my old Ford Laser was a few inches too small for the spare V8 engine a friend had sitting around. That would have been silly. Fun, but silly.


Yes, but did your calculations include the use of a cutting torch!

I've often dreamed of building a dragster and racing it. Two things stand in the way... time and money. Silly... yeah... but fun!
Ray Marsh
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Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by Paul Sturrock:
You can legally modify your engine this way in the UK.

I saw a Honda R6 the other day which had nitro tanks on the back. For those of you who don't know what an R6 is, its a motorcycle.


Wow, a screaming nitrous crotch rocket! I think I'd prefer to watch someone else ride that!
Jesse Torres
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Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
If you had to construct a rough estimate, what percentage of vehicles in Europe (specifically the U.K) are Japanese (such as Honda and Toyota)? I am curious!
Peter Rooke
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Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 805

No idea about the statistics. Sadly I don�t think there are many [major] British owned car manufactures left � only TVR, Aston Martin [I think].

As for Japanese cars, I did buy a used Mazda 323 back in 1991. I used this car daily until 2002; it never gave me any problems. Its build quality was unbelievable. Parts were expensive, but this was never a problem as it never when wrong.

I think the Japanese�s attitude towards manufacturing with quality being the prime driver � is the reason why they can do this.

I get the feeling that this type of thinking towards quality is started to influence software development, good news, I believe.
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
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Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
There are certainly legal superchargers on production cars (James Bond's 1936 Bentley, my new Ford GT (if I hit the lottery), the Ford LightningI think) and aftermarket as well. A giant GMC blower sticking out of the hood, blocking your vision, sucking up pets and small children would probably be a problem, tho. I used to see a 57 Chevy with a blower and a solid front axle with no brakes around my home town. Rumor was he swapped the windshield with another car to get the inspection sticker.

Turbos are a relatively cheap way to add a gob of horsepower without adding a lot of engine weight. Early ones had maintenance problems in the turbos and the wear and tear on the motor. The RayJay turbos my friend used came from blown up Corvairs for some clue how long ago that was. New ones are very small and responsive, tho. One of my son's friends races his SCAA street stock turbo Saab at Lime Rock and easily outruns Mustangs with twice the cylinders and displacement.

I still miss the rumble of Large American V8s tho. Front drive rice burners are good hobbies, but not hot rods, sorry.
Jessica Sant
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 17, 2001
Posts: 4313

If you're really thinking about modding your VW GTI, check out VW Vortex -- it's a massive Bulletin board all about VWs. (Go to the Volkswagen forum, then click on the type of GTI you have). There's tons of folks on there who have done everything imaginable to a VW and are more than willing to offer advice / suggestion -- and you can even buy / sell / trade parts.
Peter Rooke
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Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 805


Firestorm Photo Gallery

A few years back, after a few beers, we watched this car take off, it nearly burn our eyebrows off!

Firestorm Jet Funny Car Movie Clip - you really have to see this car to believe it.

I'm guessing its not street legal in the UK (or anywhere else).
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Angela Poynton:

WHY? WHY? WHY? Do people want Turbo Engines on their normal cars?
A standard engine will get you to the speed limit, why do you need more?


My wife really appreciates the turbo on her car. It allows her to merge with expressway traffic more briskly, making the process safer and less frustrating, while also avoiding holding up anyone behind her who might legitimately be in a hurry.

Sure, she could have went with the 6 cylinder Jetta instead, but buying the turbo 4 cylinder allowed her to get the same performance with better gas mileage at less expense.
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Peter Rooke:

2) Fit a wider [bore] exhaust system, best ones are straight through.

In many ways the best solution. It's a win-win situation: improved power with less fuel consumption, two things that don't often go together. Plus, it's often cheaper than the other options.

Ray Marsh:

A turbo-charger on a standard engine can work.

At least with an iron block engine. I would think twice before putting a turbocharger or a supercharger on one of the new aluminum block engines.
Alan Wanwierd
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Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Angela Poynton:

WHY? WHY? WHY? Do people want Turbo Engines on their normal cars?
A standard engine will get you to the speed limit, why do you need more?


My wife really appreciates the turbo on her car. It allows her to merge with expressway traffic more briskly, making the process safer ...


Unless your [merge lanes/on ramps/acceleration lanes]* are WAAAAY too short then this is a really unconvincing argument. Even in the most sluggish of modern vehicles you can reach a "safe" highway speed in almost no time. Sure you may have to glue your right foot to the floor and listen to your engine screech as you try and squeeze performance out of the 1.3lt 4cyl engine - but I've never yet driven a car that wouldnt move fast enough for busy highway merges.

I'm with Angela on this one - I dont see any great need for stupid amounts of acceleration in vehicles, they're deadly enough as it is!
(That said I do have a turbo on my car - but its a TD5 deisel landrover so I think I'm excused)



*(Use term which makes most sense in your location)
Warren Dew
blacksmith
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Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Adrian Wallace:

That said I do have a turbo on my car - but its a TD5 deisel landrover so I think I'm excused

Hardly. You could have chosen the gasoline engine, avoided the turbo, and polluted less to boot. For that matter, something smaller and more efficient than a Land Rover ought to be at least as practical for anyone not living in the African wilds.

If you want to drive an oversize vehicle with smelly exhaust, that's your choice - but then it seems to me quite - what's the word? - hypocritical to criticize others for vehicle choices that are at least less intrusive on third parties.

By the way, the numbers do not bear you out with respect to acceleration ramps anywhere I've lived. In particular, the right hand expressway lanes in both the Washington DC area and in Boston are greatly underused because people don't want to be slowed down by merging automobiles, which often fail to reach the speed of traffic by the end of the ramp.
[ December 21, 2004: Message edited by: Warren Dew ]
Ray Marsh
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Joined: Jan 12, 2000
Posts: 458
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
By the way, the numbers do not bear you out with respect to acceleration ramps anywhere I've lived. In particular, the right hand expressway lanes in both the Washington DC area and in Boston are greatly underused because people don't want to be slowed down by merging automobiles, which often fail to reach the speed of traffic by the end of the ramp.


That's is mostly due to the fact that many people do not know how to drive. They are either too tentative or too aggressive and they do not have good driving habits. It is not irresponsible or reckless to accelerate rapidly to merge onto a highway. It is the proper and safe way to do it. They also bungle up the off-ramps. It is extremely dangerous to decelerate to 30mph on an interstate before moving onto the off-ramp, but I have had the mis-fortune of being behind someone who did that.

Then there are the people that... See what you've gone and done?
[ December 22, 2004: Message edited by: Ray Marsh ]
Gerald Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Originally posted by Jessica Sant:
If you're really thinking about modding your VW GTI, check out VW Vortex -- it's a massive Bulletin board all about VWs. (Go to the Volkswagen forum, then click on the type of GTI you have). There's tons of folks on there who have done everything imaginable to a VW and are more than willing to offer advice / suggestion -- and you can even buy / sell / trade parts.


Thanks, When I have time ,I will check it out.
Gerald Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Originally posted by Peter Rooke:

Firestorm Photo Gallery


I'm guessing its not street legal in the UK (or anywhere else).


That's probably due to EU laws otherwise I would produce CFC gasses like this everyday.
 
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subject: Fast and Furous, need turbo mode