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Ho Ho Ho...

Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8764
    
    5
http://www.chrismahanukwanzakah.com/



Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Ya know, political correctness is a silly thing. A friend of mine who works in a federal government building was telling me today about their office Christmas party. First off, there was a Christmas tree, which he said was actually labeled "Christmas Tree" (odd as that may seem). Second, he mentioned that religious Christmas music was playing in the office all day. Third, I was told that all the different offices in this building (remember, federal government) decorate their office door for the "holidays". According to him, the door of the office work center right next to his is decorated with angels on it.

I was surprised to hear about all these blatant displays of religion because it was after all the federal government, and I assumed they would be hyper-sensitive about such things. Nobody seems to care or seems to be bothered by it he says. Nice to see that this PC craze hasn't infected everything I guess.
Gian Franco
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 16, 2003
Posts: 975
Merry Christmas!


"Eppur si muove!"
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Jason, from what I hear it's mainly overzealous local governments and government organisations.
Schools, city councils, etc.

Those are easy targets for the ACLU and their scare tactics...


42
Mark Fletcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
When I saw this thread in the forum, I thought it referred to the Patriots getting beaten by the Dolphins.

Sorry, my bad.


Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
I had some Java certs, but they're too old now...
Christian Schnepf
Greenhorn

Joined: Sep 25, 2001
Posts: 28
I am not sure why some places seem to be shifting towards 'Happy Holidays' and all the PC crap. We still only get Christmas day off.

Maybe offices should move towards a winter break type of thing like they do in schools if they want to get all PC.

Nice video by the way. My office was just joking about this sort of thing yesterday.
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 4118
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
Nobody seems to care or seems to be bothered by it he says.



It might very well be that some of them are afraid of speaking up, given current climates and attitudes about cultural sensitivity. I have a friend who's noticed many a discreet eye roll and sideways glance during the holidays season.

M

M
[ December 21, 2004: Message edited by: Max Habibi ]

Java Regular Expressions
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
Originally posted by Max Habibi:
It might very well be that some of them are afraid of speaking up, given current climates and attitudes about cultural sensitity. I have a friend who's noticed many a discreet eye roll and sideways glance during the holidays season.


While that may certainly be true, and while I don't know his exact situation, I do know that the federal government has a robust Inspector General system and a myriad of anonymous ways to funnel complaints. As this is something that has presumably been going on for years, you would think that if anyone were offended it would have filtered up the chain.

Interestingly enough, this federal government organization is very close to a city that tried to ban Santa Claus from its traditional Christmas tree lighting ceremony in 2001. This may lend some small bit of credence to Jeroen's comment regarding local government vs federal government sensitivities.
[ December 21, 2004: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 4118
Originally posted by Jason Menard:


While that amy certainly be true, and while I don't know his exact situation


No problem, I was just offering an alternative perspective from someone who's situation I am familiar with.

M
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
I imagine it'll be difficult for the military to be Politically Correct -
they kill people.


Le Cafe Mouse - Helen's musings on the web - Java Skills and Thrills
"God who creates and is nature is very difficult to understand, but he is not arbitrary or malicious." OR "God does not play dice." - Einstein
Max Habibi
town drunk
( and author)
Sheriff

Joined: Jun 27, 2002
Posts: 4118
The military is probably one of the the most inclusive institutions in any given country. It consists of sometimes brave, and sometimes frightened people who are nevertheless willing to defend you and your life in the worst case scenario. Given the state of the world, we're all lucky to have them.

M
Mapraputa Is
Leverager of our synergies
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 26, 2000
Posts: 10065
I still don't understand, why anybody should be offended if people call "Christmas" Christmas? Could somebody explain?


Uncontrolled vocabularies
"I try my best to make *all* my posts nice, even when I feel upset" -- Philippe Maquet
Mark Fletcher
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
"Christmas" takes place at roughly the same time as another little known religious celebration known as "Festivus".

I think its unfair that "Christmas" overshadows "Festivus". So rightly so, it should be "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas".

BTW, "Festivus" takes place on December 23rd. Google it if you dont believe me.
Michael Matola
whippersnapper
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2001
Posts: 1740
    
    2
Be a good boy, Mark, and go wrestle your father.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Originally posted by Mapraputa Is:
I still don't understand, why anybody should be offended if people call "Christmas" Christmas? Could somebody explain?


We have a borough getting prepared for "Winter Celebrations" covering any holiday around the Christmas period including Christmas.
Chanukah
Chinese New Year (Lunar New Year)
Diwali
Kwanzaa
Ramadan
Shichi-Go-San
St. Lucia
St. Nicholas Day December 6th
Taeborum
Tet
Winter Solstice
Yuletide Lads
[ December 21, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
There is another very popular festival in India that falls on Jan 14th. It is almost as important as Deepawali. It goes by the name of "Pongal" or "Sankranti" depending on which part of India it is.
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    1
Christian Schnepf:

I am not sure why some places seem to be shifting towards 'Happy Holidays' and all the PC crap. We still only get Christmas day off.

Depends on what days you want to take off. I'm taking today (Wednesday) off, for example, to recover from holding yuletide vigil all night.
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
I imagine it'll be difficult for the military to be Politically Correct -
they kill people.


oh, they have to fill out a form for each kill certifying the incident was warranted and that the person killed was politically incorrect.
They also have to take care to kill people in such a manner that proportionate numbers of people belonging to different racial and religious groups are killed so as to prevent any hint of bias
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Christian Schnepf:
I am not sure why some places seem to be shifting towards 'Happy Holidays' and all the PC crap. We still only get Christmas day off.


There was a law ammendment floated here earlier this year to abandon easter as a public holiday and instead officially celebrate the end of Ramadan...

Luckily it didn't make it, this time...
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Well, practically the whole world gets Christmas off.
If some countries want to include other holidays, that's fine.

What's the purpose of Bank holidays, anyway? The UK has three days a year.
Appreciating other people's beliefs is a good thing. It can strengthen belief in your own religion. Better than paying lip-service to it, and crying foul when it suits.
[ December 22, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    1
Jeroen Wenting:

There was a law ammendment floated here earlier this year to abandon easter as a public holiday ...

So it would become the only Sunday of the year when people had to work?
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
With four compulsory holidays and three national holidays (25th, 26th and 3rd Jan), and a day for Christmas-do, we are closing down for 11 days (24th Dec to 4th Jan) for Christmas!!

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!!


[ flickr ]
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Do you work for the Irish bank that had all it's money stolen ?
Joe King
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 820
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Well, practically the whole world gets Christmas off.
If some countries want to include other holidays, that's fine.

What's the purpose of Bank holidays, anyway? The UK has three days a year.
Appreciating other people's beliefs is a good thing. It can strengthen belief in your own religion. Better than paying lip-service to it, and crying foul when it suits.

[ December 22, 2004: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]


Perhaps people would appreciate it more if it was not a holiday. As its a holiday for everyone, it means that a lot (most in the country where I am) of the people who are celebrating christmas are non church goers. Add to this the commercialisation frenzy that goes on because of christmas, and we're left with a religious celebration that seems to have been stripped of a lot of its religious spirit. If the general public holiday was focussed on a different day (how about celebrations and present giving on New Year's day instead?) then christmas would be left for the religious people. Without any of the other clutter around it, perhaps it could be focussed upon for what it really is - a religious festival.

The other advantage of moving the holiday to a religion-neutral day is that it could be more inclusive to all parts of society, rather then just one subset, and foster a greater spirit of nation celebration. This is especially true in countries like the UK where we don't have an independence day or other national celebration which everyone gets involved in.
Helen Thomas
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 13, 2004
Posts: 1759
Blame King Canute for making Christmas a holiday.

He ordered that it should be celebrated from the day of St. Lucia , December 6th to King Canute's day, in the New Year. Feasting was allowed before the fasting began.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Helen Thomas:
Do you work for the Irish bank that had all it's money stolen ?


I wouldn't mind working for those who stole the money though � more than �20 millions!! That's nearly $40 million USD! It took them two hours to load that entire amount in to a truck, in the middle of very busy market! Puts Hollywood to shame!!
Joe King
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 02, 2003
Posts: 820
Originally posted by Ashok Mash:

I wouldn't mind working for those who stole the money though � more than �20 millions!! That's nearly $40 million USD! It took them two hours to load that entire amount in to a truck, in the middle of very busy market! Puts Hollywood to shame!!


Actually they're pretty stuffed. The banknotes in Northern Ireland have different pictures on them to the bank notes in the rest of the UK (while still being perfectly exchangeable with money elsewhere in the UK). This means that the thieves will have quite a lot of problems trying to put the money into a bank outside of NI - banks elsewhere will be very suspicious of people turning up with a large amount of NI bank notes. Spending them in NI will also not be easy with all the police around there looking out for them. What they'll have to do instead is either find someone stupid enough to buy the notes, or to try and buy lots and lots of small things in lots and lots of different places with them.
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Jeroen Wenting:

There was a law ammendment floated here earlier this year to abandon easter as a public holiday ...

So it would become the only Sunday of the year when people had to work?


easter monday is a public holiday here
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
Originally posted by Joe King:


The other advantage of moving the holiday to a religion-neutral day is that it could be more inclusive to all parts of society, rather then just one subset, and foster a greater spirit of nation celebration. This is especially true in countries like the UK where we don't have an independence day or other national celebration which everyone gets involved in.


It's also far easier to scrap it afterwards...
We (or rather our government at the time) scrapped our independence day about 10 years ago, claiming that that 1 day off a year (at most) was costing too much and hampering economic growth.
 
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