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some silly questions

krinal dewangan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Posts: 1
i am here wid ref to the book head first java second edition
by reading first few chaps of book i have some really silly questions
here are some silly questions tat i wanted to ask
1) do i really need to read c++ first to start wid java??
2) will somebody help me wid the book because i am not fetting a link to start wid the book,i mean , if somebody please help me to use the book effectively.
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24184
    
  34

Hi,

Welcome to JavaRanch!

1) No, not at all. Where did you get that idea? C++ has some similarities to Java, but not nearly so much as some people seem to think. Although people who know C++ already might pick up Java faster than people who did not, if you don't know either, then there's absolutely no reason to study C++ before studying Java.

2) Not sure what you're after here. Read the book, try the exercises. Were you expecting something more?


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Rob Spoor
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 19693
    
  20

krinal dewangan,

Please UseRealWords. "wid" is not it; please just use the right word: "with".


SCJP 1.4 - SCJP 6 - SCWCD 5 - OCEEJBD 6
How To Ask Questions How To Answer Questions
Mandar Khire
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 497

This is for krinal dewangan & for all java Beginners
AS Ernest Friedman-Hill[B] give link us of [B]Asking good questions, i try to write some easy way.
Before asking question follows following rules.

1.Try to find an answer by searching the archives of the forum you plan to post to.
2.Try to find an answer by searching the Web.
3.Try to find an answer by reading the manual.
4.Try to find an answer by reading a FAQ.
5.Try to find an answer by inspection or experimentation.
6.Try to find an answer by asking a skilled friend.
7.If you're a programmer, try to find an answer by reading the source code.

As Rob Prime
Please Use real words.

It is unnecessary.
Now main answer which i found
First read this as intro of java.
Comparision of c++ & java.book about Comaprision of c++ & javaSame comarision againStart study further in java. JVM
There is many more but it is not place to place all. Try to find out more different links.


Millions saw the apple fall, but Newton asked why.
Mandar Khire
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 497

Oops Sorry.
I want to write word Necessary(Real words are Necessary) . My Big Mistake.
Gulsum Ramazanoglu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 51
Krinal hi

There are a lot of documents around about Java, but I found this
one very easy to read and understand... hope it will be good for you too

Have a beautiful day..
Alan Moore
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 262
Originally posted by Gulsum Ramazanoglu:
There are a lot of documents around about Java, but I found this
one very easy to read and understand... hope it will be good for you too


That's an old text, and even allowing for its age, not a very good one. There's a lot of strange or inappropriate terminology, like the chapter on "Generic Programming" that's really about using collections (it predates generics by a few years). It also uses the word "subroutines" in preference to "methods" most of the time. That may be technically correct, but it's unconventional and needlessly confusing to the beginning programmers who make up the book's audience.

Those are just some problems I noticed during a quick scan of the text. A look at the accompanying utility classes revealed bizarre design choices, bloated API's, badly formatted code full of cryptic names, lots of comments but no JavaDocs--they look like C code that's been transliterated to Java. The TextReader class even has an eof() method that works by generating and then consuming a NUL character!

If you want a free, electronic Java textbook, look no farther than Bruce Eckel's Thinking In Java. The latest edition (the fourth) isn't free, but even the third edition is much more current than that book, as well as dramatically superior in quality.
Gulsum Ramazanoglu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 27, 2008
Posts: 51
Alan thank you very much for your informative warning.. over your words I lloked around and found a newer version 5.0, published in 2006.
I will read the one you suggested as well, but the attractive point in this book was its expression quality and scope.. and you can feel that a human is telling you something gently gently it has a smooth flow of reading.. I liked it.. hope this version is not problematic.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 38818
    
  23
It may be easy to read, but I suggest you take Alan's strictures seriously. There is enough on the Internet that you can pick and choose the best.
Alan Moore
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 06, 2004
Posts: 262
The fifth edition of that book is indeed much more current, but I still think you can do a lot better, even limiting yourself to free resources. And the utility classes are formatted much more nicely, but they're still the same transliterated C code they always were. And the comments may be marked with /** */ instead of // now, but they aren't really javadocs. Utility classes like those, that are written by the book's author and included with the book, are just as much of an instructional tool as the code samples scattered throughout the text, but with one important difference: they're the dogfood the author actually eats.

If I seem to be obsessed with the utility classes, it's because the author's TextIO class keeps showing up in Java forums like these. Posters increasingly mention that they're using that class, expecting us to recognize it. Some even ask how to use it, as if it were part of the standard libraries. That distracts everyone from the real problem, and there's no excuse for it. Even before the Scanner and Console classes made TextIO.java irrelevant, the author should have been teaching the proper use of the standard I/O classes that his readers will be using in real life.

I agree that it's important for a textbook to be easy to read, but it's essential that it be correct. I'm curious: have you tried to read Thinking in Java, and if so, did you find it more difficult than the Eck book? What about Head First Java?
Puneet Mittal
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 18, 2007
Posts: 45

hi krinal, how are you.
basically your silly questions, does'nt really seems to be silly for begineers.Actually i am also a begineer but i have done some half of core java, but i never really got in touch with c++. for beginning with java you just have to get some basic knowledge about object oriented concepts.So i would suggest you to go with complete reference, in which you will get complete basic knowledge with good example explainations.
Phil Hopgood
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Posts: 47
Hi Krinal,

I am a beginner as well, so I know the sort of problems you are faced with. Everyone wants to put their few pennyworth in ..... including me it would seem ..... and then it becomes hard to know which path to take.

This is my path (and I'm still stumbling along it):
1. I've run through some of the online Sun tutorials ( http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/ ) and although they are good they can be a bit patchy for a beginner and seem, in my opinion, to be written by very skilled and knowledgeable people but not always from the viewpoint of a "new to java" learner. I think it's a good place to go back to once you've got the general idea.

2. I Downloaded NetBeans and played a bit - I do have some experience with a "similar to java" language but decided that I really needed to understand the underlying code more thoroughly before going further and definitely before considering the use of an IDE. Especially when it comes to GUI design.

So I backed up a bit and

3. bought a number of books including "Java in a Nutshell" - not really a self tuition type of book but good for dotting the i's and crossing the t's and like you "Head First Java" - definitely a learners book or at least it suits me. I'm about 3/4's through that now and I still think it's the best approach for me even though it meant going over old ground more slowly.

The book not only teaches you the Java basics but also (and critically) how to be a good developer ....... my advice to you, for what it's worth? .... you stick to "Head First" and concentrate on that first. After that you'll be in a better position to make sense of what the 1000's of articles and websites out there are offering.

Oh yeah, before I go, re words and ways of expressing your thoughts: For those of us that American English (yeah, I'm a Brit .. sorry about that) is not a first language it's hard enough to understand new concepts without people using buzzwords, txt speak, new speak or TLA's ......ooops ..... three letter acronyms. So clarity, on the part of the poster and the respondent is key.

I would like to say though, that we all have a huge debt of gratitude to those patient people out there who try their very best to help and encourage us beginners. Thanks Guys.

Phil.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 38818
    
  23
Originally posted by Phil Hopgood:
I am a beginner as well . . . gratitude to those patient people out there who try their very best to help and encourage us beginners. Thanks Guys.

Phil.
You're welcome.

One thing I would suggest, is that you stop using NetBeans. Most of us recommend you use a text editor (if on Windows, Notepad is useless, but "Notepad++" or "Notepad2" are much better). The reason for avoiding IDEs when you are starting is that you have lots and lots to learn without having to learn a large and sophisticated bit of software as well. You will have to get used to the command line, and many of us think familiarity with command-line instructions is very useful.
Phil Hopgood
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2008
Posts: 47
Thanks for that Campbell.

I'm actually using TextPad which I think is the best text editor in all creation - if you want to do something, TextPad's got a nifty gizmo for doing it!

re IDE's: I know you're right. It took me a while to succumb to that way of thinking (doing things textually that is). I've used Powerbuilder's IDE for that last 14 years to design client/server applications so it didn't take me too long to feel my way around NetBeans. What eventually convinced me was when I realised that IDE's are hardly ever mentioned in the skill requirements for prospective customers even for those looking for SWING experience.

At the end of the day it's all about keeping the customer satisfied and getting the contracts..... so it's textual Phil from now on!

Cheers,
Phil
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 38818
    
  23
You're welcome.

Once you are up to speed with Java, then you will find it quite easy to migrate to an IDE like NetBeans, Eclipse or IntelliJ.
 
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subject: some silly questions