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General Doubt in web & app server

Micheal John
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Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 344
I am having a general doubt. Generally what is the necsessity of using both web server and app server?.
for example:


As far as my knowledge, we can use web server for generating a dynami pages and application server for exposing the business logic.
(Just for differentiating both, though app server has providing more features).

Since app server is subset of web server and whatever we can do it in web server, can be done at app server. Then in which scenario/situation we have to use both web server and app server.?


Micheal John
SCJP 1.4 (86%), SCWCD 1.4 (86%), SCBCD 1.3 (85%), SCDJWS (Just Started...) - Satisfaction Lies in Our EFFORT, Not in the ATTAINMENT
Seetharaman Venkatasamy
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Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 5575

Hi,

i Think,
webserver=you can deploy jsp/servlet project //you can not deploy ejb related project[example:Apache]

ApplicationServer=webserver=you can deploy jsp/servlet+ejb project[example:jboss]
Seetharaman Venkatasamy
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Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 5575

please choose correct place(forum) to post .i think tomcat forum is correct one
Micheal John
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Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 344
Hi seetharaman,


webserver=you can deploy jsp/servlet project //you can not deploy ejb related project[example:Apache]

ApplicationServer=webserver=you can deploy jsp/servlet+ejb project[example:jboss]


I know this. I think you are not getting my question.
Campbell Ritchie
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 40052
    
  28
Originally posted by seetharaman venkatasamy:
please choose correct place(forum) to post .i think tomcat forum is correct one
I think at the moment that this thread fits quite well here. I think it is a general question about servers. But it might change character and need changing later . . .
Steve Luke
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Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 4181
    
  21

So this is a response from someone who doesn't use an application server, so take it for what its worth ...

By philosophy is usually to expose the simplest framework to the widest audience. You will usually get better performance and often better security as well.

Here is the scenario: A web server is quick an efficient at displaying dynamic content. An application server is effective at transactional business. Does the client need to be exposed to the full workings of the transaction EE environment, or just to the data that gets displayed and a UI to get the data they want? Probably just the latter which means show them the web server.

This helps you limit the accesses to the enterprise environment by making sure only the web server you put out in front knows about it and can access it.

It also means that for those pages that don't need the entire EE you can generate quicker responses directly from the web server and reduce the load on the application server.

This is why it is often desirable to put a static content server in front of the web server as well, since it will handle HTML and images better than a dynamice web server.

Browser -> HTTPd -> Tomcat -> GlassFish -> DB


Steve
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61769
    
  67

This has been rehashed over and over and over in the Tomcat forum. It used to be that pure web servers such as Apache served static resources faster than app servers (and let's not get into the whole "what's an app server" debate). So you used to see a lot of setups where Apache would be set up as the front server to serve up the static resources, and it would delegate, via a connector, dynamic resource serving to Tomcat (or other).

This is no longer the case. Tomcat serves static resources as fast as any static web server, so the dual-level server setup isn't something you see all that often anymore (inertia aside).
[ August 01, 2008: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]

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Steve Luke
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Joined: Jan 28, 2003
Posts: 4181
    
  21

Originally posted by Bear Bibeault:
This has been rehashed over and over and over in the Tomcat forum. It used to be that pure web servers such as Apache served static resources faster than app servers (and let's not get into the whole "what's an app server" debate). So you used to see a lot of setups where Apache would be set up as the front server to serve up the static resources, and it would delegate, via a connector, dynamic resource serving to Tomcat (or other).

This is no longer the case. Tomcat serves static resources as fast as any static web server, so the dual-level server setup isn't something you see all that often anymore (inertia aside).

[ August 01, 2008: Message edited by: Bear Bibeault ]


That's good to know. I will have to look into this (to see if it is enough to redirect our inertia :-) ) Thanks.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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  67

Resin has a good rep with regards to fast serving as well. I can't speak to those "other" servers.

Search through the Tomcat forum for previous such discussions.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
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  67

P.S. While I don't see a lot of "dual-level" setups these days, what is still common is to have static resources served from one node of a cluster -- usually running Apache for simplicity -- and dynamic resources served from (usually multiple) other nodes.

I don't know enough about clusters to discuss how that gets set up, but it seems a popular config.
Henry Wong
author
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Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19073
    
  40

I still see this separation of web server and app server, with the accounts that I work with -- and they are generally based on location too. The Web server is generally outside of the firewall, or in the DMZ, providing a very specific set of access to the clients. The app server is generally deeper, either in the DMZ or the intranet, and can only be connected to by the web server, for specific operations.

In other words, I still believe that companies separate the web server and app server, in order to separate the presentation and business logic layer. But IMO, this is more likely done to give the user access to dynmaic data, while at the same time protect the business components, from the users.

Henry


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Micheal John
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Joined: Nov 01, 2006
Posts: 344
Thanks Bear Bibeault & Henry Wong. This is the thing/answer I have looked for. I think I have posted the question like difference between app & web server. Thanks for interperting properly.

I have missed the term "Dual Level" setup..
Amit Ghorpade
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Joined: Jun 06, 2007
Posts: 2718
    
    6

I have missed the term "Dual Level" setup..


It means a web server with a front end for static content backed by an application server for business logic.


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