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How do you manage....?

Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
How do you manage your tech life and personal life?
All the stress and loong hours at work?

Share your tips please.

Regards,
Tina


Alongwith being a good coder, try to be a good professional as well!
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I work generally 40 hour weeks and try not to bring work home with me (the occasional bit of technical reading aside). I keep a full life outside of work and I don't mix the work part of my life with the "outside work" part of my life.
Ashok Mash
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Others get to have a life outside work?!! Oh man, <subscript>curse, curse, curse</subscript>!!!


[ flickr ]
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Don't worry, Ashok, it's not all it's cracked up to be. Taking care of a house, for example, is far more painful than programming work.
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8815
    
    5
I work at home, effectively giving me 48 hours everyday :roll:

- 24 for work
- 24 to be home


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Axel Janssen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 08, 2001
Posts: 2164
... I just convert this big bureau building of my customer into my home.
Between 17:30 and 23:00 when all internals are gone its like me owning big house.
Raghav Sam
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 412
I guess there's always a sacrifice (home-side) in IT. The current implementation I am in is simply sucking all my energies. Even though I hate, mobile calls follow all the way to home and beyond. It is very frustating. What is more irritating is that the user directly calls on the mobile which makes life more miserable. But I intend to change all this, hopefully. :roll:

Some things are in order:
1. Move to relatively less intensive project.
2. Define role and stick to it.
3. Refuse to take calls beyond a certain time after office hours.
[ February 24, 2005: Message edited by: Raghav Sam ]

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.<br />- Dr. Seuss
Neeru Misra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 03, 2005
Posts: 78
Cheerfulness is independent of work, which should be taken sincerely but dispassionately.
Dave Lenton
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
My golden rule is not to think about work related stuff while not at work. Even when I'm out on my lunch break, or walking to work, I mustn't think about it.

If you start worrying about work issues while at home it can be very stressful - there's nothing much that you can do about it until you get back to work. If you spend all night thinking about a problem, by the time you get to the office the next day then you will probably be thoroughly fed up of the issue!

It can also help with solving problems. I find that if I concentrate too much on a problem that I am stuck on, I get so focussed on the details that I lose the bigger picture. After going out for lunch and spending an hour thinking about something completely different (such as reading the paper), I often go back to the office and find that I've got a fresh idea on how to approach the problem. Taking the time out allows a different perspective to be gained.

Giving your brain a break from work related thoughts can also help with relaxation. If your brain gets into the habit of switching off the work bit when not at work, you will eventually be able to do it quicker then before. Soon you'll be able to finish work and feel nice and relaxed by the time you get home.

In short - if you can't do anything about it, why stress over it?


There will be glitches in my transition from being a saloon bar sage to a world statesman. - Tony Banks
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Pretty mixed replies. I was wondering if I would get any. Felt dumb about asking this here till I did - finally. I posted this on a women's site, thinking the problem is less on the techie side. They simply told me dont work after 5! How do I tell them it doesn't work that way? :roll:

On a normal day I wake up at 6:30am, get the housework done, prepare the tiffins and head for the office at around 9am. Come back at 9pm (earliest!), straight to the kitchen - prepare food, we all eat and then again the remaining cleaning etc and sleep around 12pm.

I call my house work and cooking as my second shift. This is also a 'must-to-do' thing for me. We do not eat out of tins. I spend 1 hour in the morning and 1.25 hours in the evening on cooking itself.
At office, 5 days a week is on paper. I always have worked on Saturdays also. This extra hours work does not get paid (mentioned for those out of India.)

I keep on doing this all. But somewhere something is missing. Dun feel like I have a life. Fitting something else in this all becomes difficult. I have been a social person before, and now I cannot make it there even if people invite.
And if I keep awake and try to fit something and do not get enough sleep, I get a severe attack of acidity.

Sometimes I think of leaving IT. But then I really do not want to! Just because putting those extra hours makes it difficult to balance my work and personal life well, should I leave IT?

I also see many IT people cribbing occasionally. Also the people who have been praised and paid and offered positions for their work. So what makes them crib? what makes them remain in IT?

I know that some people might be having even difficult and tight schedule day-to-day routine. They might not be uncomfortable because of this. OR..? I don't know.
Looking at these people I think, is it that Im not suitable for this profession or lack something majorly or THEY are not showing that it IS difficult to manage?

Regards,
Tina
[ February 24, 2005: Message edited by: Tina Desai ]
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Raghav Sam:

Some things are in order:
1. Move to relatively less intensive project.
2. Define role and stick to it.
3. Refuse to take calls beyond a certain time after office hours.


Surely some things which 'can be' done. I found this very practical. My main worry is finding some time for myself and my family. And these are surely some important points.
Can you please elaborate what do you mean by the second point?

I found that excercising 10 mintues a day really took away around 40% of my stress. Also 10 minutes a day is not very difficult to squeeze in.

Regards,
Tina
[ February 24, 2005: Message edited by: Tina Desai ]
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

If your brain gets into the habit of switching off the work bit when not at work, you will eventually be able to do it quicker then before. Soon you'll be able to finish work and feel nice and relaxed by the time you get home.


Generally I am put off by the 'change-your-psychology' type of answers. In a way, I find it as saying 'be-suitable-for-it'. But I agree to what you have stated here. I think this is possible. Initially it is difficult. But I believe, tuning one's brain that way might atleast make it easier.

Originally posted by Dave Lenton:

In short - if you can't do anything about it, why stress over it?

That's easier said than done. This is a bit off track, really. I have been laid off once. The reason given was performance. 3 days afterwards I found out the reason was different and sick. People having lower perfomance ratings are still working there. Some people who were asked to go with me, actually had more exp and higher performance rating than myself too. Lay offs were everywhere that time. Someone just had his/her purpose fulfilled.
Till date I do not know who did it and why she/he did it. What do I 'work' on not to let this happen again?

I guess the cluelessness makes me want to do better and better day by day.

Regards,
Tina
Tina Desai
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 365
Originally posted by Bert Bates:
I work at home, effectively giving me 48 hours everyday :roll:

- 24 for work
- 24 to be home


And just how do you manage that?
Atleast when one is in the office, the housework is out of site. And vice-versa.

Don't you tend to put off work till guests leave or that programme on tele is over or the kid goes to bed? On the other hand, do you tend to keep working when the loved ones actually want you to be there, with them - without even ANY thoughts about work?

Regards,
Tina
Bacon
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 14, 2004
Posts: 305
First: My family is my top priority not my career. You cannot have both as top priorities. That will not work and only create more stress. You have to chose. There is no two-headed dragon in my life.

Second: I leave work at work. Often I go home and leave work undone or beg off late meetings. I make it a point to not let work dominate my life.

As an example I took yesterday off in the middle of a busy week. My kids did not have school, nor my wife so we all spent the day together.
kayal cox
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 19, 2004
Posts: 376
Tina, my only advice to you, is take a long, hard look at your employer. There is no need for people to work 12 hours a day, and on saturdays (especially if they have a family, and they have family oriented priorities like home cooked food, spending quality time at home etc).

If the project you are on is too hectic, find a different project. If all projects at your employment are hectic, find a different employer.
I don't know if you have kids. But if they need to fit into the equation, your career is the one you will have to change to fit your lifestyle.

I am in IT, I have worked in India and abroad, and my life outside of work has been very fulfilling. I go for concerts, I try my hand at painting, I take part in girls-night-out, plus the occasional self-pampering visit to the beauty parlor..

Suddenly, one day we would find that we are old. It is not at all nice to wake up and think where did my life go..
Sadanand Murthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Posts: 382
Originally posted by kayal cox:
Suddenly, one day we would find that we are old. It is not at all nice to wake up and think where did my life go..


This reminded me of a cubicle sticker at one of my client's place. I don't recall the exact wordsl; but the import of it was this:
No one on the death bed has ever said "Wish I had spent more time at work".


Ever Existing, Ever Conscious, Ever-new Bliss
Sadanand Murthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Posts: 382
I've told my one of my client (when asked or rather hinted at) that I would not work 60 hrs a week, week after week after week (once in a while I don't mind putting in 60 hrs). And if that meant not having that project, so be it.

Like Ray, work-life is not my life; it is the means to have a life of my choice. If in this process, my client and I have a conflict on this then we just have to part and go our separate ways. It is all a matter of priorities, what we are willing to sacrifice and how much are we willing to sacrifice. So, this is a change-your-attitude/approach option (which you have a predisposition to not like).
Rene Smith
Greenhorn

Joined: Jun 10, 2004
Posts: 21
Tina,

If I was you I would find a new employer. I used to work at a place where people were expected to work 60ish hours a week and carry an oncall phone 24x7. I quit!! I could not take it any more. took 18 months off from work and then found a new job that is wonderfull. I have been working here for about 18 months and it seems like just yesterday I started. I work 40 hrs per week and then have only worked 2 saturdays since I got here.

Good luck - I hope you are able to find something that works for you.

-Rene
Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17250
    
    6

It takes some effort on your part, but you must not let your job force you to work so many hours. They have lives too and should understand. Like someone said before, if they don't understand, find a company that does and work for them. Life is too short to work long hours all the time.

I had the unfortunate opportunity to fully experience burnout. It is not fun, I was completely depressed, was abused at work, and outside of work I was miserable. You have to get the courage and get out of there to stop the insanity. But it is hard to do this, I understand. I did read one book on burnout, but in the end it was leaving that bad job that did the trick.

Now, I work for an incredible company that understands having a life, and I can work late if I wish, I have deadlines to, but for the most part I always work 44 hours one week, then 36 hours the next week with Friday Off.

Now, I do have to monitor myself and make sure that I don't fall into my old ways and start to burnout. I have to be firm with my company to make sure they don't overburden me. This takes work to.

Consider yourself lucky in this regard, You care about your work and the quality of work that you do. This is a rare trait and one that I commend you on. And one that is highly valuable. Use this to your advantage.

Good Luck.

Mark

p.s. Oh, I forgot, near the end and after I left I went to a shrink, which really helps. Although they did try to get me on Zoloft. Instead I used 5-HTP which is a natural herb, this worked wonders, but don't use it for too long.


Perfect World Programming, LLC - Two Laptop Bag - Tube Organizer
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way FAQ
Alan Wanwierd
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
Tina,

A year ago I worked for an employer who criticised me heavily for being a "40 hour a week" guy. This was despite the fact that I got all my worked completed within required deadlines and gained certifications (after study in private time) that the company needed to gain for business partnership reasons.

I was moved out of my chosen area and pushed into working on a project that I had no interest in and forced to spend all day in the most uncomfortable office with the most unlikable man in the universe.. I raised my concerns to other senior managers, but the corporate bullying tactics went unchecked.

I suffered a great deal of stress but was never under the illusion that increasing the number of hours was going to improve the situation. My boss clearly had decided that he didnt want anything to do with me any more and was going to do whatever he could to make my life miserable (occasional meetings would result in a flurry of verbal abuse from him, sometimes on work issues, other times just plain abuse on the basis of my nationality!)

The only course of action I had was to look for a new job since it was clear that at the first hint of opportunity my boss was going to sack me (redundency was out of the question since they would have had to pay me) but unfortunately at the time the job market was very quiet and things were clearly going to take some time.

Later I discovered that my manager was in fact monitoring all my email correspondence when he threatened to call the police on me for an email that he considered to contain content that was "illegal" (I sent myself a list of my personal contacts from my work address book!)

Fortunately I found a new job! I reduced my travel time from 2hrs a day to 30 minutes a day, 40 hours a week is as much as is expected - and nobody minds if I do some of those hours from home, I leave home around 7:15am every morning and get back before 4pm every afternoon. I'm working on a project that is far more interesting than anything I would've done in my previous company and I get paid 30% more than I did 13 months ago!

Strangely enough, with the reduction in stress I have found that the quality of my work has improved, my health is better and I have more energy for my family when I'm at home.

In short - If you're working too long and getting stressed - MOVE! Keep looking until you find a place to work that suits you! There are reasonable employers out there - you just have to find one!
David Harkness
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 07, 2003
Posts: 1646
I wholeheartedly agree with the others here:
  • Choose your priority and stick to your guns
  • Polish your resume, get some leads, and then approach your boss to discuss decreasing your hours to something reasonable. By being prepared to leave, 1) you may find a better offer and leave anyway and 2) you won't feel powerless talking to your boss.
  • Don't take work too seriously

  • I used to stress over work, worry about not getting it done, worry about it not having good quality, etc. While I've read quite a few books that have helped, one in particular made a huge difference: The Four Agreements. That links to the author's site, but it's widely available and a quick read.

    The two most applicable to what I was experiencing are "Always do you best" and "Don't take anything personally." By always doing your best (not the most you can do but the best), then there's clearly no reason to stress about not getting enough done. Instead, either the scope needs to be adjusted or the timeline.

    The second comes in handy when your boss is giving you the hard sell on working the weekend. Your boss is stressed and is taking it out on you -- it has nothing to do with you as a person. Besides, you're doing your best so what possible problem could they have with you personally?

    I go through cycles of working longer hours and then working fewer. Because we're still stuck on the waterfall approach, when code freeze hits and QA starts ramping up, development is pretty stagnant for a while and I can work 40 hours a week.

    However, I'd have to say that the single biggest factor in helping me keep my sanity when working long hours is that I love coding. I spend off hours reading about new techniques and tools and posting here. Sometimes work just doesn't feel like work, but that's mostly because I don't take it too seriously.

    Finally, until you can cut your hours back, how about sharing the housework with other family members? You may already do this, but since you said you do cleaning and cooking I assume you're doing the majority of it. Obviously, this may not be possible, but if it is I highly recommend it. There's no point in you playing the family martyr.
    peter wooster
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jun 13, 2004
    Posts: 1033
    For some moral support form a respected management guru:

    Read the chapter of PeopleWare entitled "Vienna waits for You". It starts on page 14 of the real book and page 31 of this electronic version.
    Peter Rooke
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Oct 21, 2004
    Posts: 802

    Peopleware , the best (non technical) book I started reading last year.

    Earlier this year, I when to a [BCS SPA] talk entitled; "Less code-compilation more software-practice". Very interesting.

    The mushroom management philosophy "Treat your men like mushrooms, keep them in the dark and feed them c**p". I first overheard this in an [British] Officers Mess


    Regards Pete
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by Ray Marsh:
    First: My family is my top priority not my career. You cannot have both as top priorities. That will not work and only create more stress. You have to chose. There is no two-headed dragon in my life.

    Second: I leave work at work. Often I go home and leave work undone or beg off late meetings. I make it a point to not let work dominate my life.

    As an example I took yesterday off in the middle of a busy week. My kids did not have school, nor my wife so we all spent the day together.


    I see your point. All the companies I left, I had not claimed around 60-70% of my leaves. And the ones I had taken were for health reasons only.

    This is more to do of the fact that taking a holiday is not easy in India. Lot of explaining to do even when you have more than 80% leaves remaining!
    But I can surely be a little more 'aware' of this - of what is in my hand and what I can exercise.

    I completely agree on your views of having two top priorities. Im not happy when Im totally at home. And same is the case when there is loads and loads of work. So, both are 'major' priorities.

    But surely topmost can be only one.

    Regards,
    Tina
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by kayal cox:
    Tina, my only advice to you, is take a long, hard look at your employer. There is no need for people to work 12 hours a day, and on saturdays (especially if they have a family, and they have family oriented priorities like home cooked food, spending quality time at home etc).
    If the project you are on is too hectic, find a different project. If all projects at your employment are hectic, find a different employer.

    I agree.

    Originally posted by kayal cox:
    I don't know if you have kids. But if they need to fit into the equation, your career is the one you will have to change to fit your lifestyle.

    I do not have kids yet. And it worries me when I think about it. Thanks for being brave and honest (yet not being hurting or rude!) in telling me that I will HAVE TO change my career likewise.

    Regards,
    Tina
    kayal cox
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 19, 2004
    Posts: 376
    Tina: Thanks for being brave and honest (yet not being hurting or rude!) in telling me that I will HAVE TO change my career likewise.


    Sorry, did not mean to come on too strong about it!
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by David Harkness:
    I wholeheartedly agree with the others here:
  • Choose your priority and stick to your guns
  • Polish your resume, get some leads, and then approach your boss to discuss decreasing your hours to something reasonable. By being prepared to leave, 1) you may find a better offer and leave anyway and 2) you won't feel powerless talking to your boss.
  • Don't take work too seriously


  • Good points. Thank you.

    Originally posted by David Harkness:
    I used to stress over work, worry about not getting it done, worry about it not having good quality, etc.

    Perfectionist, were you? I am. What you have described here is the closet to what happens to me. Worrying about 'not getting it done' and 'it not having good quality' kills me. And its not because the boss will know it. Its more because I know that it is there that way - WRONG!!

    My husband is not at all like this. And I have learnt a little from him. But then a little.

    Originally posted by David Harkness:

    Finally, until you can cut your hours back, how about sharing the housework with other family members? You may already do this, but since you said you do cleaning and cooking I assume you're doing the majority of it. Obviously, this may not be possible, but if it is I highly recommend it. There's no point in you playing the family martyr.


    I started off by off-loading some work at home when I wanted more free time. Yes, I did tend to play 'the family martyr'. But not any more. Now I am better at asking for help and family members are better at understanding and helping!

    Regards,
    Tina
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by kayal cox:
    Sorry, did not mean to come on too strong about it!

    No need to feel sorry. I found it pretty appropriate. I appreciate the reply.

    Regards,
    Tina
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by Adrian Wallace:

    In short - If you're working too long and getting stressed - MOVE! Keep looking until you find a place to work that suits you! There are reasonable employers out there - you just have to find one!


    Your reply comes at the time I was thinking - "so...? do I just keep changing the employer till the time I land on some suitable place?"

    The same thing expressed by you in a "statement" spawned many positive thoughts. Keeping this in mind will definitely help me while I work on the other options which have come up in this discussion. Before doubting the suitability of IT, considering if the place is suitable for me makes sense.

    Thank you.

    Regards,
    Tina
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:
    It takes some effort on your part, but you must not let your job force you to work so many hours. They have lives too and should understand. Like someone said before, if they don't understand, find a company that does and work for them. Life is too short to work long hours all the time.

    I am afraid I will have to negotiate this mostly with people who do not understand. They keep on having the kind of life which comes their way more because of peer pressure or because 'it-is-that-way'. They put in extra hours compromising a lot. They do it, so they make you do it/expect you to do it. Changing this does not 'occur' to them. Its difficult when the slavery is in the mind of people.

    I will have to have a mix of the above two - suitable employer + making them understand my priorities.

    Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:

    Consider yourself lucky in this regard, You care about your work and the quality of work that you do. This is a rare trait and one that I commend you on. And one that is highly valuable. Use this to your advantage.

    Thank you for the words of appreciation. Reading this was quite encouraging.

    I decidedly think and work on my drawbacks which people mention. Yet its very exciting and encouraging when someone shows the power to openly tell a positive point.

    Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:
    Zoloft. 5-HTP which is a natural herb.

    I did not get this. Some medicines, are they?

    Regards,
    Tina
    Jeffrey Hunter
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 16, 2004
    Posts: 305
    A brief philosophical interlude from my faux leather desk chair, and yes, it is near 8:00pm Friday night and I'm taking a break from work, hahah. Life is most certainly a game, except we don't play it exactly, more often it plays us. Someone once said this about love, but I find it applies quite appropriately to life in general. It can be quite meloncholic for most of us, since we all have front row tickets to the rest of our lives, but in the end, we may end up wondering if we got our money's worth. So, to be blunt...make sure you get your money's worth. If work is your passion, so be it. If you are cursed to be the quintessential perfectionist, so be it. I myself am pulling my hair out over a web site design and in no uncertain terms I cannot accept one pixel out of place so help me it drives me insane and makes me thirsty for another shot of cheap whiskey, the kind that comes in a plastic bottle.

    Okay, so beyond the rants and run-on sentences. If you can express yourself and your passions through your work, there is nothing more gratifying than to know you are doing what you love. And of course, it will come home with you and yes, you will pull your hair out, drink cheap whiskey, or any other number of things you do to open the stress valve. Unfortunately, loved ones will suffer. And thus the baggage every perfectionist/workaholic carries on their back...the disapproving glare and menacing cold-shoulder and the disappointment. Many great authors (RIP Hunter S. Thompson) and artists and other passionate individuals find themselves constantly at war with an inner turmoil. Shall I be selfish and feed my own passions to achieve the glory and recognition I've always dreamed of? Or shall I govern myself and pull back the reins to seek comfort with friends and family and nights out on the town?

    It is a question many of us face, though few of us can answer honestly.
    Mark Spritzler
    ranger
    Sheriff

    Joined: Feb 05, 2001
    Posts: 17250
        
        6

    I did not get this. Some medicines, are they?


    Yes they are Zoloft is a prescription drug that is an anti-depressant. It has lots of side effects.

    5-HTP is a natural herb. It does not have side effects, that I have found. It does the same thing though.

    It has to do with the brain and the hormones that it releases. I actually forgot the name, but when there is a lock of it, depression hits in. These cures increases the hormone and really helps. Of course, I am not a doctor and recommend doing research yourself.

    I too was in a job where they expect you to work late, and if you didn't you were considered a really bad worker. This is one of the main reasons why you would need to leave and find a place that doesn't have that mentality.

    Good Luck

    Mark
    David Harkness
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 07, 2003
    Posts: 1646
    Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:
    5-HTP is a natural herb. It does not have side effects, that I have found. It does the same thing though.
    5-HTP is processed by your body to create 5-HT, commonly called serotonin. Serotonin in your brain regulates your moods and body temperature. By taking 5-HTP, you give your body the building blocks to the create serotonin that it needs for mood regulation as it's depleted over time as a neurotransmitter in your brain.

    This science break brought to you by the letter D.
    Dave Lenton
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jan 20, 2005
    Posts: 1241
    Originally posted by Tina Desai:
    This is more to do of the fact that taking a holiday is not easy in India. Lot of explaining to do even when you have more than 80% leaves remaining!


    Wow, I didn't realise that. This must make things a bit stressful. I've heard its a similar story in Japan. Has anyone else had pressure not to take their full allowance of holiday time?

    My holiday situation is quite different - the HR department will often send an email around this time of year to remind people that they can't carry their holidays over to the next holiday year (starting in April), so we should book our remaining leave soon.

    I suppose a big factor is also the amount of leave given. In a country where there is very little leave (I've heard the USA is particularly strict in the amount of leave given), workers must perhaps resent not being able to take their entire small allowance. In other places with more holiday then people may be more flexible.

    The weirdest holiday allowance system I've heard about is a practice in Australia where by people expect to take a certain number of sick leave days each year on top of their normal holiday allowance.....
    kayal cox
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 19, 2004
    Posts: 376
    Tina: This is more to do of the fact that taking a holiday is not easy in India. Lot of explaining to do even when you have more than 80% leaves remaining!


    Er.. that is not always true. It depends on the project you are on. If there are tight deadlines, then it might be difficult. But I have seen that in US too. I have worked in DSQ, HCL, and Wipro and have never had issues taking leave. But of course, it helps if you are the kind of person who doesn't mind handing over a half-completed module to a colleague, and you are willing to come back and take over the mess that he might have made of it
    [ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: kayal cox ]
    Tina Desai
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Mar 13, 2003
    Posts: 365
    Originally posted by Jeffrey Hunter:
    but in the end, we may end up wondering if we got our money's worth. So, to be blunt...make sure you get your money's worth. If work is your passion, so be it. If you are cursed to be the quintessential perfectionist, so be it. I myself am pulling my hair out over a web site design and in no uncertain terms I cannot accept one pixel out of place so help me it drives me insane and makes me thirsty for another shot of cheap whiskey, the kind that comes in a plastic bottle.

    I do agree to whatever you say. But Im not allergic to my own perfectionism. Rather Im quite comfortable with it. Its the others I send to buy cheap whiskey, I guess

    The reason for this discussion lies in something different. I can ask my husband to adjust. I can myself adjust to crazy routines and lots of stress. But how do I explain this to our own little baby?

    I once read 'No one wishes to fail as a parent.'
    I see many couples in IT around myself. Their kids are bright too. But as the parents cannot spend enough time with the kids, many expensive gifts come into picture. Especially the mothers seem to be under this guilt quite often.

    Phone calls like 'Don't cry. ok? I will bring you this this while coming home' are becoming very common.
    Soon a day comes when the kid says, 'You didn't bring me anything while returning from offic. You do not love me anymore'
    ... and it all gradually becomes very materialistic.

    Even I found myself buying expensive gifts for family and friends. The guilt of not being able to be there and give them time, shows some or the other way. When things affect to such an extent where you might change as a person, taking a stalk of what we are doing might be helpful. Few crossroads are subtle and need to be felt and seen.

    That is the reason I felt it was time to think and get advice and opinions.

    Originally posted by Jeffrey Hunter:
    Okay, so beyond the rants and run-on sentences. If you can express yourself and your passions through your work, there is nothing more gratifying than to know you are doing what you love. And of course, it will come home with you and yes, you will pull your hair out, drink cheap whiskey, or any other number of things you do to open the stress valve. Unfortunately, loved ones will suffer. And thus the baggage every perfectionist/workaholic carries on their back...the disapproving glare and menacing cold-shoulder and the disappointment. Many great authors (RIP Hunter S. Thompson) and artists and other passionate individuals find themselves constantly at war with an inner turmoil. Shall I be selfish and feed my own passions to achieve the glory and recognition I've always dreamed of? Or shall I govern myself and pull back the reins to seek comfort with friends and family and nights out on the town?

    It is a question many of us face, though few of us can answer honestly.


    I understand what you say here. There might not be a specific sure-shot answer to this. But explanations like these can atleast make it clear that one has to live with this.

    Hope experience opens up few layers of mystries and atleast teaches how to be content.

    Regards,
    Tina
    [ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: Tina Desai ]
    kayal cox
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Aug 19, 2004
    Posts: 376
    Tina: But as the parents cannot spend enough time with the kids, many expensive gifts come into picture. Especially the mothers seem to be under this guilt quite often.

    Phone calls like 'Don't cry. ok? I will bring you this this while coming home' are becoming very common.
    Soon a day comes when the kid says, 'You didn't bring me anything while returning from offic. You do not love me anymore'
    ... and it all gradually becomes very materialistic.

    I find this to be a pretty accurate description of things around me.

    Once we become aware of a problem / potential problem, we are (hopefully) that much closer to getting at a solution.

    Good luck!
    Kishore Dandu
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Jul 10, 2001
    Posts: 1934
    I try not to bring work and work related issues home.

    I sure do surf technical stuff while my family are watching movies that I am totally not interested in.

    Once the cold weather goes away, I may concentrate on outdoor projects at my home.


    Kishore
    SCJP, blog
    Jeffrey Hunter
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Apr 16, 2004
    Posts: 305
    Originally posted by Tina Desai:

    Hope experience opens up few layers of mystries and atleast teaches how to be content.


    Apparently life is not a bed of roses. This should not be a news flash to anyone. What should be a news flash however, is where exactly you're spending most of your time. Are you most often frolicking in the meadow, among the roses, or are you most often wading through the murky morass of shit just glad that you've become accustom to the stink because you've come to realize that you'll never leave.





    Perhaps we are programmed from the beginning to live our lives a certain way. Perhaps we are programmed to accept being content.

    Perhaps we should fork our own thread.
    Perhaps we should insert a trojan horse.
    Perhaps we should cause a seg fault.

    Perhaps we should do whatever we need to do to escape Thoreau's somber declaration that most of us lead lives of quiet desperation.

    Okay, I've got to get back to work, haha.
    Sadanand Murthy
    Ranch Hand

    Joined: Nov 26, 2003
    Posts: 382
    Originally posted by Tina Desai:


    I can ask my husband to adjust.

    [ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: Tina Desai ]


    This is one statement that I have a problem with. I cannot ask my wife to adjust; rather I won't ask my wife to adjust. Reason? Simple. When I married her my priorities changed. Now I'm part of someone else's life just as that someone else is part of my life. She has the right to my companionship, my time, my shoulder, my ears, my love. If I continued my workaholic days (of bachelorhood) then I'd be making her life miserable. There are occassions when I've to work longer hours (longer than 40hrs/week). But these are far and few in between. Neither my wife nor I have a problem with this.
    [ February 28, 2005: Message edited by: Sadanand Murthy ]
     
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