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SUV or minivan

Pat Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 47
i am in the market for a large suv or minivan. for example, a Sequoia or a Sienna.

in general, a suv is cooler, more towing power. a minivan has more room, cheaper.

regarding feather, the most important ones for me are:

1. 4WD
safty, but not the extra airbags.

2. sun roof
coming from convertible background

3. reasonable steoreo system
need one sooner or later.

4. bigger wheel
cool.


did i miss anything? :roll:


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Mark Spritzler
ranger
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2001
Posts: 17249
    
    6

Aren't they the same thing? A large vehicle that blocks the view of cars behind them, so that the cars have to get into accidents, since they are blinded.

JK

Mark


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Ganapathi Srinivasan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 18, 2001
Posts: 41
depends on what kind of a driver you are! You should not try to drive a SUV like a car (especially in curves) since the possibility of a roll-over is more in SUV. Mini-vans gives you a family-person look (i would not take my a minivan for my date )..you can even explore the new cross-overs (neither a van nor a SUV) like Chrsyler Pacifica..
Jeroen Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 12, 2000
Posts: 5093
A sedan for me, possibly a coupe even.
But then I don't need to carry large loads (like a kid going to kindergarten which seems the typical use for an SUV while dad takes the Beetle to the supermarket).


42
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Mark Spritzler:

Aren't they the same thing? A large vehicle that blocks the view of cars behind them, so that the cars have to get into accidents, since they are blinded.

Nah - some minivans have windows low enough that they hardly block the view any worse than sedans do. If blocking other people is your objective, you really have to go with an SUV.

I think SUVs should be driven around curves just as fast as cars, though. Rolling over into a ditch is part of the SUV experience!
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Mark Spritzler:

Aren't they the same thing? A large vehicle that blocks the view of cars behind them, so that the cars have to get into accidents, since they are blinded.

Nah - some minivans have windows low enough that they hardly block the view any worse than sedans do. If blocking other people is your objective, you really have to go with an SUV.

I think SUVs should be driven around curves just as fast as cars, though. Rolling over into a ditch is part of the SUV experience!


Actually if you want the true XTreme SUV experience you should get the IH MXT or one of its littermates.
Steven Bell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 1071
Originally posted by Mark Spritzler:
Aren't they the same thing? A large vehicle that blocks the view of cars behind them, so that the cars have to get into accidents, since they are blinded.

JK

Mark


Maybe cars should learn not to tailgate SUV's, I garuntee if a car rear ends an SUV the SUV will win.
Andrew Eccleston
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 140
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Mark Spritzler:
Nah - some minivans have windows low enough that they hardly block the view any worse than sedans do.


Except that so many have tinted windows that you can't see through, anyway.

I used to laugh at all the people who spend the extra money on a SUV or pickup because it's "cool" when they have no practical use for one, then pay through the nose for gas, and finally complain that they don't make enough money. For the record, it's getting a lot harder to laugh at since people don't have the common sense to see where their money is being wasted. It's becoming just plain sad.


Oh, well.


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Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
I think mini-van is very practical for a person with kid/kids. This gives lot of space that is needed for that specific case.

But, some folks want to look hip while they are going from A to B. In those cases large SUV suits the bill, at the expense of more price.

I won't touch small & mid size SUVs; since they have so little leg room in the 2nd row onwards and no space to maneavour.


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Gerald Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2002
Posts: 872
Many people here in Blity buy SUV buy it for show. Just as the sports car has the speed appeal SUV have the off-road appeal. You would be surprised how many SUV driver with those spare wheels, don�t have a jack to use it if they get a flat.

Some SUV should be designed as road only vehicles; they can look like SUV but does it have to be a 4x4, the suspension suited for off road, overpower engine with low mileage and does those spare wheels holders actually have to contain a spare wheel; I would love it to contain a picnic basket and a beer fridge.

Beer aahhggg!!!
Pat Davis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 47
i think 4�4 is a useful feature, especially in so called "snow belt".
Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
Many people here in Blity


Where is Blity???
Steven Bell
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 1071
More and more cars are comming with 'all-wheel' drive, which is basically 4-wheel drive. The difference that most 4-wheel drive vehicles are not designed to drive in 4-wheel mode while on dry pavement and all-wheel drive is.

All-wheel drive is far better than rear-wheel drive and slightly better than front-wheel drive even on dry pavement.
Sadanand Murthy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 26, 2003
Posts: 382
Originally posted by Gerald Davis:
Many people here in Blity buy SUV buy it for show. Just as the sports car has the speed appeal SUV have the off-road appeal. You would be surprised how many SUV driver with those spare wheels, don�t have a jack to use it if they get a flat.

Some SUV should be designed as road only vehicles; they can look like SUV but does it have to be a 4x4, the suspension suited for off road, overpower engine with low mileage and does those spare wheels holders actually have to contain a spare wheel; I would love it to contain a picnic basket and a beer fridge.

Beer aahhggg!!!



Isn't jack standard tool with any vehicle you buy in Blity (is that a slang for Britain)?


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Jesse Torres
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Originally posted by Pat Davis:
i am in the market for a large suv or minivan. for example, a Sequoia or a Sienna.

in general, a suv is cooler, more towing power. a minivan has more room, cheaper.

regarding feather, the most important ones for me are:

1. 4WD
safty, but not the extra airbags.

2. sun roof
coming from convertible background

3. reasonable steoreo system
need one sooner or later.

4. bigger wheel
cool.


did i miss anything? :roll:


Sequoia or Sienna? It looks as if you have narrowed your choices to only Toyota? Is this the case? If so, then the new Sienna is a great minivan; however, it is extremely expensive. For SUV, Toyota is going to soon release a Hybrid Highlander. However, if you want a bigger SUV, then you should go for Land Cruiser or 4Runner.
Roger Johnson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 311
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


Sequoia or Sienna? It looks as if you have narrowed your choices to only Toyota? Is this the case? If so, then the new Sienna is a great minivan; however, it is extremely expensive. For SUV, Toyota is going to soon release a Hybrid Highlander. However, if you want a bigger SUV, then you should go for Land Cruiser or 4Runner.


Sequoia is even bigger than Land Cruiser or 4Runner.

Jesse Torres
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Sequoia is in Truck platform so the ride is not as smooth as the Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser is not on a truck platform. It is on a league of its own. Even though 4Runner is also on truck platform, it is a smooth ride. Finally, the Highlander rides similar to a Sedan since it is on Camry platform.
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:
...But, some folks want to look hip while they are going from A to B. In those cases large SUV suits the bill, at the expense of more price.
...


Where I live, most large SUVs are owned by empty-nesters in their 50s or 60s, some actually use them to pull a trailer to Florida, so they are not totally wasted.

This is the same demographic that used to buy oversided sedans, with huge engines. Those cars became extremely uncool, since they were viewed as "granddad's car". At the rate Escalades, Armadas and Navigators are selling to the ex-minivan crowd, I suspect they will soon join the big Oldsmobiles and Chrysler Imperials as the least cool vehicles available.
Roger Johnson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 311
i think the bottom line here is:

for a family of 2 parents, 2~3 kids, maybe 2 grand parents, you need enough "square feet" in a vehicle.
Roger Johnson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 311
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:

Sienna is a great minivan; however, it is extremely expensive.


that makes people think "with that kind of money, why do not i go for a suv?"
Jesse Torres
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
Originally posted by Roger Johnson:
i think the bottom line here is:

for a family of 2 parents, 2~3 kids, maybe 2 grand parents, you need enough "square feet" in a vehicle.


I completely agree with you. My sister-in-law owns a Honda Odyssey 7 Passenger minivan. It sure comes in handy when transporting over 5 people or when picking up family members from the airport. Unfortunately, it consumes way too much fuel.
[ March 18, 2005: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Pat Davis:

i think 4�4 is a useful feature, especially in so called "snow belt".

True. Here in the Boston area, four wheel drive or all wheel drive is almost as useful in the winter time as using snow tires on your rear wheel drive car.

Unfortunately, a lot of people with 4WD SUVs aren't smart enough to realize that it doesn't help them stop. As a result, during snowstorms, the majority of the vehicles in the ditch around here are SUVs. For some reason, AWD Subarus don't seem to suffer from the same problem.
Kishore Dandu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


I completely agree with you. My sister-in-law owns a Honda Odyssey 7 Passenger minivan. It sure comes in handy when transporting over 5 people or when picking up family members from the airport. Unfortunately, it consumes way too much fuel.

[ March 18, 2005: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]


The fuel consumption in that case is not any worse compared to a mid-size SUV. Sure it is worse than a most cars.
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Warren Dew:
Pat Davis:

i think 4�4 is a useful feature, especially in so called "snow belt".

True. Here in the Boston area, four wheel drive or all wheel drive is almost as useful in the winter time as using snow tires on your rear wheel drive car.

Unfortunately, a lot of people with 4WD SUVs aren't smart enough to realize that it doesn't help them stop. As a result, during snowstorms, the majority of the vehicles in the ditch around here are SUVs. For some reason, AWD Subarus don't seem to suffer from the same problem.


How true, when we had that really bad snowstorm when I lived in Toronto and the mayor called in the army, the only person stuck on our street was a Spute driver foolish enough to believe that his 4WD would pull him through anything. All the folk busy digging themselves out had a good laugh before we went over and helped this guy get it moving again using shovels.

One time when I was down in N. Carolina on the outer banks driving an Alfa Spider (4 inches of clearance), I stopped by the ocean to check things out and saw a park ranger pulling a 4WD truck off a dune. There is no way I would have considered driving out there, and thus no way to get the $200 fine for getting caught there.

Sputes are notorious for being able to get themselves into trouble they can't get out of. Rollovers, stranded on sand dunes, stuck up to the axles with all 4 wheels spinning and the obvious "all cars have 4 wheel breaks, they don't stop any better than any other car".
peter wooster
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Roger Johnson:

that makes people think "with that kind of money, why do not i go for a suv?"


Possibly because while the minivan makes you look middle aged with children, the SUV makes you look like your children have children. I know the car companies try very hard to attach a "young, adventurous" image to SUVs, but that's just to appeal to aging boomers.
Roger Johnson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 24, 2004
Posts: 311
Originally posted by Jesse Torres:


Sequoia or Sienna? It looks as if you have narrowed your choices to only Toyota? Is this the case?


i guess not.

the alternative to sequoia is suburban. in fact suburban is 220 inch long, 10 inch longer than sequoia, too long for some garage.

and the consesus seems that toyota's have slightly better built quality and resale value than domestic. one dealer told me: a grand cherokee and a 4runner start out at same price, a few years later, 4runner worths $6,000 more than grand cherokee.

Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3476

A vote for SUV ...
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
peter wooster:

This is the same demographic that used to buy oversided sedans, with huge engines. Those cars became extremely uncool, since they were viewed as "granddad's car". At the rate Escalades, Armadas and Navigators are selling to the ex-minivan crowd, I suspect they will soon join the big Oldsmobiles and Chrysler Imperials as the least cool vehicles available.

I think it's going further than that: it seems Cadillac is targeting their sedans at aging boomers who want to avoid the stigma of owning an SUV, with at least some success. It probably doesn't hurt that some of their new cars perform well enough to impress much of the younger crowd, and their quality figures are actually ahead of Toyota and company (the Toyota brand had 104 defects per 100 new cars in the latest JD Powers figures; Cadillac had 93. Meanwhile, Hummer's number was 173).
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
Check out the insurance industry ratings that came out in the last week or so. They really blasted most SUVs with scary pictures of roll-overs. Of course a couple other SUVs were at the top of their safety list. Blazer bad, Lexus good. I'd guess it depends on whether the frame technology started out under a pickup or a car.

Look at Subaru if they're big enough for you. I have an older Impreza and love it. Some of the new ones have real squirt to them as well as great AWD. Make sure they fixed the cup-holder problem before you buy one, tho.

Anybody getting more mileage minded about now?


A good question is never answered. It is not a bolt to be tightened into place but a seed to be planted and to bear more seed toward the hope of greening the landscape of the idea. John Ciardi
Warren Dew
blacksmith
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2004
Posts: 1332
    
    2
Stan James:

Anybody getting more mileage minded about now?

Too late for me ... I just bought a car.

It actually had somewhat disappointing EPA ratings - pretty much the same as my previous car, despite being 20% smaller. My actual gas mileage has been about 20% better than my previous car, though.

In a recent nine car comparison in Road & Track, it had the third worst EPA rating, but the best actual mileage. I guess that says something about just how out of touch with reality EPA ratings are.
Philip Shouri
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 20, 2005
Posts: 5
Originally posted by peter wooster:


Actually if you want the true XTreme SUV experience you should get the IH MXT or one of its littermates.


Thats a big A$$ Truck
Stan James
(instanceof Sidekick)
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 29, 2003
Posts: 8791
Jay Leno drove one for a Popular Mechanics review. High-larious.

The Sierra Club had a satiric parody of giant SUVs with Photoshop doctored pictures of the Peterbilt Migration and Exodus models. This IH is almost identical - just a pickup version. Very scary.
 
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