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who would be next Pope

Kishore Dandu
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I have utmost respect for the present pope. But, with the deterioting health it is one of the immediate questions that may comeup earlier than later.

Here is a link which is speculating that a Indian cardinal( cardinal Ivan Dias from Bombay) as a probable candidate. That will be a real surprise if he gets elected.


Kishore
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Gregg Bolinger
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I'd just like to remind those that contribute to this thread that it is not about who *should* be the next pope or more specifically who think *shouldn't* be based on race, color, religion, sex, etc. That's a quick way to get this thread deleted.

Also, keep your personal religios opinions and comments to yourself. Wow, does that really leave much to talk about?


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Jim Yingst
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I think it's long past time for a Jewish Pope. Or maybe a Seventh-Day Adventist. It seems very unfair that only Catholics are considered.


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Helen Thomas
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The current (?) Pope helped catalyse the downfall of Communism in the Eastern bloc by telling the Polish people not to be afraid of change. Europe might have been a bloodier place in the 90's. Apparently the Pope would not face to the realities of Aids and that resulted in him not receiving the Noble Peace Prize.

Whoever follows in his footsteps would be standing on the shoulders of a giant. Unfortunately he would be unlikely to live up to expectations if papal history is anything to go by. Popes like him come around once every 500 - 1000 years. Or maybe even longer.
[ April 02, 2005: Message edited by: Helen Thomas ]

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Arjunkumar Shastry
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According to The Hindu(newspaper,not religion )Vatican might choose from :
1)Cardinal Francis Arinze, age:70 Nigeria
2)Cardinal Oscar Andres Rodriguez Maradiaga, Honduran age:60
3)Lubomyr Husar, Ukraine :70
4)Christoph Sch�nborn Austria age:58
5)Jaime Lucas Ortega y Alamino Cuba age:66
6)Godfried Danneels Belgium age:70
46% of Catholics are from Latin America. Chances of 2 are higher.


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Jason Menard
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I plan on voting for Arnold Schwarzenegger for Pope, as soon as I receive my absentee ballot in the mail.
Kishore Dandu
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Good bye to a energetic, change-making, human great.
Roger Johnson
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could anyone be kind enough to tell me why there is Catholic Pope, but there is not Christian Pope? thanks.
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Roger Johnson:
could anyone be kind enough to tell me why there is Catholic Pope, but there is not Christian Pope? thanks.


There is not one single Christian religion. Catholicism is an original form of Christianity, however in the 16th Century the Church was split during what was called the Protestant Reformation. The versions of Christianity that can trace their origins to the Reformation are collectively called Protestant, although there are several such varieties of Protestant Christianity. These include Angilcan, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, and countless others. To confuse things just a bit more, many of theese also have slightly different varieties. And let's not forget that aside from Catholicism and the Protestant varieties of Christianity, there are still more versions of Christianity, the largest branch of which is the Eastern Orthodox religions.

Only the Catholics accept the primacy of the Pope.
Jeroen Wenting
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The late pope was the first non-Italian in 400 years. With a 26 year term he was also the longest-lived pope ever (and one of the youngest ever).
No woman has ever been pope.
The pope is almost never the person generally believed to be the one to get the job outside the Vatican.

Given those statistics the most likely candidate is an older Italian man, and one who is not pointed to in the press as the one to get the job.


42
Jeroen Wenting
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:


There is not one single Christian religion. Catholicism is an original form of Christianity, however in the 16th Century the Church was split during what was called the Protestant Reformation. The versions of Christianity that can trace their origins to the Reformation are collectively called Protestant, although there are several such varieties of Protestant Christianity. These include Angilcan, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Baptist, Methodist, Pentacostal, Presbyterian, and countless others. To confuse things just a bit more, many of theese also have slightly different varieties. And let's not forget that aside from Catholicism and the Protestant varieties of Christianity, there are still more versions of Christianity, the largest branch of which is the Eastern Orthodox religions.

Only the Catholics accept the primacy of the Pope.


The Church had split long before that in Eastern and Western Christianity.
Western Christianity went the way you describe, Eastern Christianity developed into (among others) the Greek and Russian Orthodox churches and the Ethiopian branch.
stara szkapa
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Originally posted by Jim Yingst:
I think it's long past time for a Jewish Pope.


This is not impossible. Lustiger might be one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Marie_Lustiger
Jason Menard
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Originally posted by Jeroen Wenting:
The Church had split long before that in Eastern and Western Christianity.


http://www.answers.com/topic/east-west-schism
Jesse Torres
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May he rest in peace!
Jesse Torres
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Irish Bookmakers Take Bets on Next Pope.
[ April 05, 2005: Message edited by: Jesse Torres ]
Paul Bourdeaux
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I think it's long past time for a Jewish Pope.
We already had one. Petr, th first Pope (or at least the person recognized as the first Pope) was Jewish... as was Jesus. In that time, the messianic movement surrounding Jesus was more of a reform of Judism than a seperate religion. The actualy split of Judism and Christianity took centuries. In 65AD Nero identified the "Christians" as the organizers of the 2nd revolt, yet still throug the 4th century, Jewish and Christian families were intermingled and celebrated the same holidays - much like Protestants and Catholics do now.

So in all actuality, the first few Popes could be considered Jewish. And Petr would have never considereed himself anything but a Jewish man.


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Jeroen Wenting
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Of course. The term "Christian" meant nothing more or less than "follower of Jesus Christ, the renegade Jewish prophet".
In fact, the old testament is a Jewish scripture. What is less known is that the Bible (both old and new testaments) is a holy scripture for Islam as well and Islam recognises Christ as a prophet (though a lesser prophet, standing in the shadow of Muhammed) as it does Moses.
Marco Davids II
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there is a theory that Pope John VIII was actually a woman ...
although it cannot be totally proven conclusively today as the Catholic
church vehemently denies that it is true..
Frank Silbermann
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Originally posted by Paul Bourdeaux:
We already had (a Jewish Pope). Peter, the first Pope (or at least the person recognized as the first Pope) was Jewish... as was Jesus. In that time, the messianic movement surrounding Jesus was more of a reform of Judism than a seperate religion.
Actually, there was a Pope (Antipope?) about a thousand years ago of Jewish ancestry, whose family had converted no more than a generation or two earlier.

The actually split of Judism and Christianity took centuries. In 65AD Nero identified the "Christians" as the organizers of the 2nd revolt,
I read that he blamed the Christian sect for the burning of Rome. The first Jewish revolt in Judea took place shortly afterwards, under the next emperor.

The second revolt took place a hundred years later, and may have caused much of the hostility that eventually led to the split between Jews and Christians, in that the Christians refused to join in, saying that their Kingdom was Not Of This World. That revolt ended disastrously for the Jews, as the Romans killed half the population and sold most of the rest into slavery around the Roman empire. The Pharasaic branch was the only non-Christian one to survive. (The war also did not go well for Rome; to put down the rebellion they had to gather armies from as far as Britain; I think it marked the end of the Roman empire's expansion.)

yet still through the 4th century, Jewish and Christian families were intermingled and celebrated the same holidays - much like Protestants and Catholics do now.

So in all actuality, the first few Popes could be considered Jewish. And Peter would have never considered himself anything but a Jewish man.
Though the mutual resentment probably began around the time of the Second Revolt (Jews resenting Christians for staying out of it, Christians wanting to distinguish themselves from the Jews who, as a result of the second revolt, had become hated throughout the Roman empire). The split was may not have been confirmed until a Roman emperor converted to Christianity, allowing the establishment of the first Christian conferences for religious standardization to distinguish approved doctrine from heresy.
Marc Peabody
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Originally posted by Jason Menard:
I plan on voting for Arnold Schwarzenegger for Pope, as soon as I receive my absentee ballot in the mail.


Dude, I think you like need to be really old and wear red and stuff if you want to vote or get elected. Like Cardinal Santa Clause. That dude is righteous. Totally.


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Max Habibi
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Originally posted by Marc Peabody:


Dude, I think you like need to be really old and wear red and stuff if you want to vote or get elected. Like Cardinal Santa Clause. That dude is righteous. Totally.


Let's keep it respectful: we're talking about the passing of a significant spiritual leader.

M


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Warren Dew
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Marc Peabody:

Dude, I think you like need to be really old and wear red and stuff if you want to vote or get elected. Like Cardinal Santa Clause. That dude is righteous. Totally.

I believe Cardinals over the age of 80 are not permitted to vote this time around.

On things earlier in the thread: the link regarding the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Catholicism doesn't discuss Papal Infallibility or the heritability of the Throne of Peter. Am I mistaken in thinking they are connected?

Frank: isn't that also the story behind the King James bible, as opposed to the Douay?
Dave Lenton
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One interesting point is the distribution of votes for the next pope. European countries have vastly more votes then non-European countries (in terms of the number of cardinals they have voting). I think Italy alone has more votes then all the other European countries combined. Some people are saying that this bias towards Europe doesn't really reflect the modern nature of the church - catholicism is in rapid decline in Europe, but increasing in other areas. Some parts of Latin America have had huge increases in the number of catholics, and now make up a large proportion of the global catholic population, but will have little say over who the next pope is.


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Axel Janssen
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Originally posted by Warren Dew:

On things earlier in the thread: the link regarding the schism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Western Catholicism doesn't discuss Papal Infallibility or the heritability of the Throne of Peter. Am I mistaken in thinking they are connected?
[/QB]

no. The Papal Infalibillity Doctrine is from the year 1870 !!!
http://www.zpub.com/un/pope/infal.html
The shism between Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catolics took place 1600 (or so) years earlier.
A lot of elements of catholic "tradition" were introduced later on. For example in Middle Ages a lot of catholic parish priests were married men.
So is Infalibility Doctrine. I think it was a attempt to give back more respect to catholic church after/during industrial revolution. Was wrong strategy if you ask me.
Marc Peabody
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Originally posted by Max Habibi:


Let's keep it respectful: we're talking about the passing of a significant spiritual leader.

M


I apologize to anyone who inferred that my electoral process comment was a disparaging bash against JPII. That was not my intentions.
Kishore Dandu
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Day 1 -> Black smoke from the chimney.

According to some media -> the guy from Germany seems tobe a front runner.
Warren Dew
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According to some media reports, the German guy already has a majority of the votes. If true, he just needs to hang on to them for a few weeks, until the required majority drops from two thirds to half.
Dave Lenton
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Seems like they picked someone - I just got an item through on my RSS feed from the BBC saying that they have. Unfortunately about 50 million other people must also have just got the news, because the BBC site is down.....

EDIT - BBC site back up, but they don't know who it is yet.
[ April 19, 2005: Message edited by: Dave Lenton ]
Ashish Chopra
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CNN.com is up.....

White Smoke rises.....the world has a new pope.

As predicted, its cardinal ratzinger...he's chosen the name Benedict XVI
[ April 19, 2005: Message edited by: Ashish Chopra ]

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Gerald Davis
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yahhh yahh yahhh
Kishore Dandu
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At 78, I feel he is kind of old. But it is not my opinion which counts.

I hope he maintains the same ethics and keeps up to the previous one.
Anselm Paulinus
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Originally posted by Warren Dew:
According to some media reports, the German guy already has a majority of the votes. If true, he just needs to hang on to them for a few weeks, until the required majority drops from two thirds to half.



This media report might have been correct because the German guy is the new Pope; what happened to the oath of secrecy taking by the cardinals? Did someone go against his oath of secrecy to leak information to the press; the consequence is excommunication if proven.
Ta Ri Ki Sun
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Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:

I hope he maintains the same ethics and keeps up to the previous one.


I hope he allows/encourages his followers to use condoms, and allows/encourages poverty stricken families to use some form of birth control. That would make a significant difference in Africa alone, where what the pope says goes for many people. I trust in God, but tie your camel if you hope to find it when you return, or in this case don't expect not to have yet another unwanted pregnancy, or contract HIV, unless you take some precautions.
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Ta Ri Ki Sun:


I hope he allows/encourages his followers to use condoms, and allows/encourages poverty stricken families to use some form of birth control. That would make a significant difference in Africa alone, where what the pope says goes for many people. I trust in God, but tie your camel if you hope to find it when you return, or in this case don't expect not to have yet another unwanted pregnancy, or contract HIV, unless you take some precautions.


I've never understood this argument. The Pope should say 'Do not have sex outside of marriage, but if you do use a condom'? Sends a bit of a mixed message don't ya think? Of course here you assume that if a person 'disobeys the Pope' by having sex outside of marrage they will 'obey the Pope' by not using a condom. Interesting logic.
The message is 'Do no have sex outside of marrage, end of story'. Which is far safer than sex with a condom.
Ta Ri Ki Sun
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Originally posted by Steven Bell:


I've never understood this argument. The Pope should say 'Do not have sex outside of marriage, but if you do use a condom'? Sends a bit of a mixed message don't ya think? Of course here you assume that if a person 'disobeys the Pope' by having sex outside of marrage they will 'obey the Pope' by not using a condom. Interesting logic.
The message is 'Do no have sex outside of marrage, end of story'. Which is far safer than sex with a condom.


That's over simplified, how about a real life scenario?
I don't have sex outside marriage, but my spouse does, he/she brings home HIV.
Also, consider that a loving and faithful couple might not be able to afford as many kids as they're "blessed" with.
Steven Bell
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Originally posted by Ta Ri Ki Sun:


That's over simplified, how about a real life scenario?
I don't have sex outside marriage, but my spouse does, he/she brings home HIV.

I would say you have a problem with your spouse if you need to wear a condom every time you have sex to avoid disease. What happens if you decide you want to try and have kids?
'Honey, no more sex with strangers until we get pregnant. ok?'

Also, consider that a loving and faithful couple might not be able to afford as many kids as they're "blessed" with.


I understand the argument for birth control within a marrage, but that is a religous decision based on belief of certain moral standards. I, as not a cathlic, abstain from that argument. In my opinion that is an argument to be won or lost within the religion.
Chris Baron
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Wow, Wikipedia is fast!
I'd be surprised, if it came to many changes under the former Grand Inquisitor Ratzinger.

cb
[ April 19, 2005: Message edited by: Chris Baron ]
Gerald Davis
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Originally posted by Ta Ri Ki Sun:


I hope he allows/encourages his followers to use condoms, and allows/encourages poverty stricken families to use some form of birth control.


Sometimes the Bible seems old fashion and out of touch, and some of the rules are beyond understand. Beyond those rules are social economical reasons for being. Some of these poor countries are god fearing. To promote contraception is to promote fornication; that act that is not of gods will.

Changing values of society are like changing application code; most of the time those changes do not happen in isolation and create problems else ware in system. I am sure that mass sexual transmitted diseases were problem back in old days and Christianity has evolved over time to handled these problems well. Christianity is a well tried and tested social economic framework.
Joel McNary
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Originally posted by Gerald Davis:

Changing values of society are like changing application code; most of the time those changes do not happen in isolation and create problems else ware in system. I am sure that mass sexual transmitted diseases were problem back in old days and Christianity has evolved over time to handled these problems well. Christianity is a well tried and tested social economic framework.


Actually, as far as I know, there is no evidence of STDs in the Mediterranean world until the colonization of the Americas. This is something that early Christianity just didn't have to deal with.


Piscis Babelis est parvus, flavus, et hiridicus, et est probabiliter insolitissima raritas in toto mundo.
Joel McNary
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Originally posted by Axel Janssen:

A lot of elements of catholic "tradition" were introduced later on. For example in Middle Ages a lot of catholic parish priests were married men.


Indeed. Also note that (at least when this policy was adopted), priests took a vow of celibacy, while nuns took a vow of chastity.
Note the defination from m-w.com:

1 : the state of not being married
2 a : abstention from sexual intercourse b : abstention by vow from marriage

At the time, defination 2a did not exist. The vow of celibacy was simply a vow to not marry. Nuns, on the other hand, had to remain chaste. The cynical among us can read this to mean that the church simply didn't want to have to take care of dependants; that this was done solely for financial reasons.
 
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