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movie burning

Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Is it becoming common place to get hold of DVD(by renting or online subscription) and burn that off. I have met atlest 2 guys last week who have about 200 movies from this process.

If the trend continues, it will be a bigger headache to movie studios(or dvd rights holders) than the cd burning problem.


Kishore
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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
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    6

It became common place 2-3 years ago. This is old news.


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Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
It became common place 2-3 years ago. This is old news.


Does that mean you are into it

Just kidding.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


Does that mean you are into it

Just kidding.


Actually I am totally against it. I buy all my movies. I always buy them the week they come out because where I live they are always $5 cheaper the first week they are released.

There is a guy at work who uses Netflix and just copies every movie he gets in the mail, then sends the movie back. He has been doing this for 2 years.
Ryan McGuire
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 988
    
    1
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:

There is a guy at work who uses Netflix and just copies every movie he gets in the mail, then sends the movie back. He has been doing this for 2 years.


I wonder....
I could see the owners of Netflix not worrying about this too much. If I understand correctly, the company is doing well enough to make the top level folks quite rich. They might just have the attitude that as long as they make their $20M, who cares if business dries up in another couple years becasue of piracy. Granted, it would suck to be one of the rank and file employees there when it goes away. By why would he owners care as long as they get their money now? The negative publicity of going after pirates might hurt their position more than supplying said pirates. (That whole time value of money principle, ya know.)

Data point: I subscribe to Netflix but don't copy them. Netflix is cheap enough that it's easier to pay them than to burn an store a whole library. Then again, I rarely watch what videos I do have.

Ryan
Nick George
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Joined: Apr 04, 2004
Posts: 815
Gregg, are you equally against the burning of music?


I've heard it takes forever to grow a woman from the ground
Steven Bell
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Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 1071
Originally posted by Ryan McGuire:

They might just have the attitude that as long as they make their $20M, who cares if business dries up in another couple years becasue of piracy.
Ryan


Just like all the video rental places went out of business while they were renting VHS?

IMO this is really a non issue. When VHS first came out the movie industy went nuts screaming that it would bankrupt them. They ended up making even more money than ever.

This is just a business opporunity waiting to happen. If it wasn't for all the lawsuits we would probably seeing alot of cool stuff comming out. There was a company that would come to your house, take all your DVD's, dump them onto a box at your house, and you could stream your entire collection right off the box onto your TV. It cost several grand because the company went through the trouble of getting the large stack of necessary licenses. They still got sued though, not sure what the outcome was.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

Originally posted by Nick George:
Gregg, are you equally against the burning of music?


Yes; and software. I am against any kind of piracy.
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
I've never illegally downloaded music, but because of the stupid anti-piracy tactics of some music companies, I'm becoming increasingly tempted to. When I buy a CD, the two most common places I listen to it is on my computer at home, or on my computer at work. Recently I purchased a CD which turned out to have a rather annoying form of copy protection on it meaning that it will not load on a computer. The thing is that the only warning of this was a small sticker on the inside of the CD case, which was sealed when I bought it. I had no way of knowing, when I made the purchase, that it wouldn't work on my computer.

Now I'm tempted to download the tracks off of the Internet - its the only way I can get to listen to the music at work without lots of fiddling around with cables to connect my stereo to my computer.

Another factor driving people to illegally download is the heavy handed tactics of the music companies. Stories about pensioners and children being sued for downloading tracks are causing people to get the impression that music companies are nasty entities which somehow deserve to be stolen from. Now it may or may not be true that they are this nasty (and I'd certainly say that no-one deserves to be stolen from), but (popular impressions of) their anti-piracy tactics are probably helping to make the piracy situation worse. If they want to reduce piracy, they should be attempting to entice customers, instead of making them angry.

Finally, its well known that CD prices have been ridiculously high for a long time. A music CD costs less than a pound to make, but will sell for around �10-15. Customers are beginning to get a bit peeved at this extraordinarily high profit margin. Its also not as if the artists themselves are going to become poverty stricken if CD prices were lower - its only a tiny fraction of the cost of a CD which goes to the artist. The music companies have been milking the customers for all they can get for a long time, and now its the customer's turn to get something back.

It doesn't need to be like this though. Most music listeners like to have a proper CD. They form nostalgic feelings for CDs in a similar way to how people felt about vinyls in the past. Pirated CDs don't have the same emotional factor. Owning a "proper" CD is also a different experience to burning a CD with downloaded tracks. The proper CD has a nice album cover, lyrics, messages from the artist, and increasingly extras such as videos and ring tones. Its clearly a superior product, and there is demand for it.... if the price is right. If music companies made CDs cheaper, there would be a tremendous surge in demand for them. A proper CD is better, and a lot less hassle to get then downloading and burning a CD. The music companies have to ask themselves why people are settling for an inferior product... and the answer is inevitably price.


There will be glitches in my transition from being a saloon bar sage to a world statesman. - Tony Banks
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

A few comments:

Now I'm tempted to download the tracks off of the Internet...

Although I don't really buy CD's anymore, I still pay for my music. The best service I believe is iTunes because they don't restrict burning and they don't charge a monthly fee. So you can burn a CD if you want it or play on your computer(s) and/or portable device(s).

If you don't have an iPod, which I don't, you can still burn the songs to a CD then rip them to MP3 for whatever device(s) you have.

Finally, its well known that CD prices have been ridiculously high for a long time. A music CD costs less than a pound to make, but will sell for around �10-15. Customers are beginning to get a bit peeved at this extraordinarily high profit margin. Its also not as if the artists themselves are going to become poverty stricken if CD prices were lower - its only a tiny fraction of the cost of a CD which goes to the artist. The music companies have been milking the customers for all they can get for a long time, and now its the customer's turn to get something back.

I don't think CD prices are that high. Maybe they are less expensive in the US? I don't think $15 is unreasonable. But again, I can buy most CD's from iTunes for $9.99 with a few exceptions.
Ryan McGuire
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 988
    
    1
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:

If you don't have an iPod, which I don't, you can still burn the songs to a CD then rip them to MP3 for whatever device(s) you have.


There are completely software-based ways of converting from iTunes to MP3s. The best page I've found is from
this one from The Gates of Hell. It mentions specific programs and how to get them running. In contrast, I've been to a couple sites with instructions like, "Now just use your favorite program to convert X to Y."

Ryan
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Steven Bell:


Just like all the video rental places went out of business while they were renting VHS?

IMO this is really a non issue. When VHS first came out the movie industy went nuts screaming that it would bankrupt them. They ended up making even more money than ever.

This is just a business opporunity waiting to happen. If it wasn't for all the lawsuits we would probably seeing alot of cool stuff comming out. There was a company that would come to your house, take all your DVD's, dump them onto a box at your house, and you could stream your entire collection right off the box onto your TV. It cost several grand because the company went through the trouble of getting the large stack of necessary licenses. They still got sued though, not sure what the outcome was.


As long as there is quality coming out of Hollywood they may not have issues. But the problem is with the size and quality of a DVD. It is easy to carry around(compared to a VHS) and it needs efforts to damage(compared to VHS). I can see lesser DVD sales, because people start opting for online subscriptions and active-burning of all the new releases.
Steven Bell
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Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 1071
Originally posted by Kishore Dandu:


As long as there is quality coming out of Hollywood they may not have issues. But the problem is with the size and quality of a DVD. It is easy to carry around(compared to a VHS) and it needs efforts to damage(compared to VHS). I can see lesser DVD sales, because people start opting for online subscriptions and active-burning of all the new releases.


DVD's are easier to carry around, but harder to damage?

I still have VHS tapes from as long as 15 years ago that have just been tossed around in boxes and they still work fine. A DVD would be viable as a drink coaster after such abuse.

As for online subscriptions and active-burning, the same thing was said about VHS rentals and dubbing. It's the same thing, just newer tech.

I believe the quote is:
'What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun'
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Steven Bell:


I believe the quote is:
'What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; there is nothing new under the sun'


This is exactly what music industry thought, then the bottom fell out.

There are already signs of stabilization in DVD sales globally(it is one number on which movie industry and major studios depend heavily now-a-days)
Dave Lenton
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Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Posts: 1241
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
I don't think CD prices are that high. Maybe they are less expensive in the US? I don't think $15 is unreasonable. But again, I can buy most CD's from iTunes for $9.99 with a few exceptions.


Seems like they are less expensive in the US. In the UK I can probably buy a limited range of CDs (top 20 chart albums) from about �10 in supermarkets, which is about $18. This is cheap for the UK. If I wanted to buy non-chart, or slightly rarer CDs I'd have to go to a music shop where they could be up to about �16, which is about $29.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

Here is what I see happening. When VHS first hit the market and a movie was released for rental it was also released for sale. What happened later was the distribution companies got together and decided for whatever reason they weren't going to do this anymore. Remember when there were no DVD's and when a movie came out for rent you couldn't buy it?

If you ever rented a VHS from Blockbuster and lost the tape or something and got a bill from BB for $100+ you'll be familiar with this. Rental businesses would buy copies of the VHS movie for rent for $100+ per copy. This is because they weren't released as "sale through" merchandise.

This will eventually happen with DVD's. And even quicker if people continue to copy them. The reason you can buy a DVD as soon as it is released for rent now is because the DVD makers want you to want DVD's rather than VHS. The same reason they wanted you to buy into VHS. Once it is the standard, they'll pull back and not be so consumer friendly. And the more money the studios are losing because of piracy, the quicker this will happen.

What does this mean for Netflix, Blockbuster Online, etc? IT means that once they have to start paying $100+ for a rental copy of a movie, they won't be able to stay in business.
[ May 27, 2005: Message edited by: Gregg Bolinger ]
Kishore Dandu
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Joined: Jul 10, 2001
Posts: 1934
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
Here is what I see happening. When VHS first hit the market and a movie was released for rental it was also released for sale. What happened later was the distribution companies got together and decided for whatever reason they weren't going to do this anymore. Remember when there were no DVD's and when a movie came out for rent you couldn't buy it?

If you ever rented a VHS from Blockbuster and lost the tape or something and got a bill from BB for $100+ you'll be familiar with this. Rental businesses would buy copies of the VHS movie for rent for $100+ per copy. This is because they weren't released as "sale through" merchandise.

This will eventually happen with DVD's. And even quicker if people continue to copy them. The reason you can buy a DVD as soon as it is released for rent now is because the DVD makers want you to want DVD's rather than VHS. The same reason they wanted you to buy into VHS. Once it is the standard, they'll pull back and not be so consumer friendly. And the more money the studios are losing because of piracy, the quicker this will happen.

What does this mean for Netflix, Blockbuster Online, etc? IT means that once they have to start paying $100+ for a rental copy of a movie, they won't be able to stay in business.

[ May 27, 2005: Message edited by: Gregg Bolinger ]



The VHS and DVD analogy does not work in real world. There is more money to be made on DVD sales(at least last couple of years) compared to money made on VHS movies. VHS sales never achieved the numbers that are coming out of DVD money for the distribution companies.

If they start playing around with DVD distribution(like rental first, wide sale release later) this may not work for their benefit, most likely.
Steven Bell
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Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 1071
So in order to stop piracy they are going to make it more difficult to get a DVD through legal means? Sounds like a winning strategy to me. By the way I've got this bridge I'm looking to sell... maybe I should head over and talk to them about that too.
 
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