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American Dream

Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
America the destination of many to live an American Dream.
My Question is �what is that Dream�
For non Americans
I have never visited the US and want to know what is in your view the Non americans who aspire to be in US and non americans who r in the US
Attractive/Magnetic force that draw people there.
For Americans
What are the pluses you feel America provides.
If you were forced to leave the US where would you prefer to be at or where whould you head to.


You think you know me .... You will never know me ... You know only what I let you know ... You are just a puppet ... --CMG
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
My Question is �what is that Dream�

The dictionary definition is rather amorphous:

1) An American ideal of a happy and successful life to which all may aspire.
2) The widespread aspiration of Americans to live better than their parents did.

Attractive/Magnetic force that draw people there.

Economic opportunities. Easy assimilation. Relatively little of government and societal interference in your private life. No single standard to conform to and to live by. Space.
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
Originally posted by John Smith:
My Question is �what is that Dream�

dictionary

which dictionary quotes so
and still im confused as to one thing i know there is something but What??? what u said is already there in diff places
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
Dictionary Definition of "American Dream"
Dan Maples
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Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 153
Way back when in high school we had to read the book The Great Gatsby it was about a guy durring prohabition and his life and all. It was really good and was about "the American Dream." According to our teacher the book was almost call the American Dream instead of T.G.G. If you have some free time and you are really interested in the subject I recomend reading it.


-Dan
Jesse Torres
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Joined: Mar 25, 2004
Posts: 985
The American Dream article from Wikipedia.

The American dream is the idea held by many in the United States of America that through hard work, courage and determination one can achieve prosperity. These were values held by many early European settlers, and have been passed on to subsequent generations.
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
The Great Gatsby sounds interesting. (will check it out)

The definitions were something I had (would have)(should have) seen via Google.

But still I don�t see anything special in it because this is like and inherent
Dream of every human and is achieved but many aspirers in different locations of the globe.
This is why I am asking 2 groups of people the americans and the non americans in US about their views towards it.
Economic opportunities I feel is even higher in the silent or �under the covers� countries.
The initial post also had some more questions. So would be nice if people out there share their view.
John Smith
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Joined: Oct 08, 2001
Posts: 2937
But still I don�t see anything special in it because this is like and inherent Dream of every human and is achieved but many aspirers in different locations of the globe.

The Europeans seek the elbow of a fellow citizen, the Americans seek space. The Indians seek societal acceptance and approval, the Americans seek independence. The Swedish and Norwegians rely on strong government and social programs, the Americans want to give as little as possible of their money to government. The Germans like order, the Americans like diversity. The Italians live for joy, the Americans live to pay for the houses, cars, and their kids education. The Russians read, the Americans don't. The Japanese value traditions, the Americans don't have traditions. The French work 30 hours a week, the Americans work 50 hours a week. Americans think that "The Great Gatsby" is the best novel ever written, the rest of the world has never heard of it.

To summarize it all, the American Dream is to make 10 million bucks and live happily thereafter. The Dream of the rest of the world is to have a dream. Hope this helps.
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
Originally posted by John Smith:


To summarize it all, the American Dream is to make 10 million bucks and live happily thereafter. The Dream of the rest of the world is to have a dream. Hope this helps.


Most of what you said was good along with its pun.
except this summary. the rest of the world sure do have their own dreams. for example my dream in this context would surely be to make much more than 10 million and live happily thereafter and during the process of reaching my dream.
Apart from this im quite sure this is the dreams of many all over the globe "To make money and be happy"
but i feel the US has reached its peak and people who struck gold and who r striking gold benefit.
But for the people chasein the american dream (from outside US) should rather do it towards the rising places.
kind of like the stock market you can earn more by betting on the maturing companies rather than the stable old players.
I heard this american dream used in some conversation with some friends
I felt its just Tagged to america by people who assume america is flowing with milk and honey and they can ease thier way to the top.
by the way where would u head to if by chance america is wiped out
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5371
Originally posted by Ajay Mathew:
by the way where would u head to if by chance america is wiped out


Mars


"Thanks to Indian media who has over the period of time swiped out intellectual taste from mass Indian population." - Chetan Parekh
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
Originally posted by R K Singh:


Mars



sure but i would still prefer your bangalore over mars
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
The American dream is a universal human dream of material success and freedom in most respects, thats one reason so many from around the world migrate there. It is uniqueness is that it emphasizes that the fact that it is open to all regardless of class or political influence or national origen or race or sex : Steve Jobs building Apple corporation in his garage, Bill Gates, Opray Winfray (now in Forbes list of wealthiest people), Tiger Woods, the founders of Papa John pizza, Domino Pizza, etc the list is endless.
Jason Menard
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Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
The American Dream is that through hard work anybody can make a decent life for themselves and progressively better lives for their descendants. The American Dream is not to become rich. The American Dream is not to come here and have the government take care of you.

People don't come to this country from all over the world because they want to become rich. They come here because they know that they can earn a decent living if they're willing to work for it and that their children can get an education and do even better than they have. They come here because they know they will be free from political and religious persecution. The US is often referred to as the "Land of Opportunity", and I think this moniker speaks well towards what the American Dream represents.
[ June 25, 2005: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Dan Maples
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Joined: Jun 21, 2004
Posts: 153
Originally posted by John Smith:
Americans think that "The Great Gatsby" is the best novel ever written, the rest of the world has never heard of it.


now I never said it was the best novel written....

I think Jason brought up a great point about the American Dream being the idea that through hard work you can do something with your life, wereas in another country you could work hard your whole life and get nowhere.
Mark Fletcher
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Joined: Dec 08, 2001
Posts: 897
Originally posted by John Smith:

Americans think that "The Great Gatsby" is the best novel ever written, the rest of the world has never heard of it.



"The Great Gatsby" is a recommended text for English courses in the Scottish Higher Curriculum at High School, along with "Death of a Salesman".


Mark Fletcher - http://www.markfletcher.org/blog
I had some Java certs, but they're too old now...
frank davis
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Joined: Feb 12, 2001
Posts: 1479
Originally posted by Jason Menard:
The American Dream is that through hard work anybody can make a decent life for themselves and progressively better lives for their descendants. The American Dream is not to become rich. The American Dream is not to come here and have the government take care of you (people immigrate to Europe for that one).

People don't come to this country from all over the world because they want to become rich. They come here because they know that they can earn a decent living if they're willing to work for it and that their children can get an education and do even better than they have. They come here because they know they will be free from political and religious persecution. The US is often referred to as the "Land of Opportunity", and I think this moniker speaks well towards what the American Dream represents.


Very well said Jason. Its what I was aiming to say but fell far short of...
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
That was a good explanation Jason.

I think this was very true from a very long period of time.
But is it still true?
Places like Iceland, Australia, Singapore, New Zealand, Japan, Norway etc. have much more growth prospects (for individuals) than the US.
With no disrespect intended I would say that the American Dream has passed by and will need a revival.
The Sandman is relocating.
Another reason I brought up this topic is because the last time I visited China I met young kids whose main intention in life is to study English and go to the US.
Though its not good to break a persons heart, I still felt that it was a waste of time (youth). But no matter how much I try to tell them the low returns high risks in their endeavour they were firm on their views.
I respect their views but I feel the main reason for this is the old American dream. The American dream would break more people than make them.
Alan Wanwierd
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Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
Originally posted by Ajay Mathew:
That was a good explanation Jason.

...Places like Iceland, Australia, Singapore, New Zealand, Japan, Norway etc. have much more growth prospects (for individuals) than the US....


I cant speak for other places listed, but if the dream is to get rich - then Australia is NOT the place to be! worldbeating taxes (50% once you earn a smidgeon more than average) and overpriced goods ensure that getting wealthy here is very hard. Its not what the Australian dream is!

The Australian dream is for everyone to be relaxed and happy and to work as little as possible!.... The difference between this and the American dream is one of the reasons I chose to live here! Unfortunately however, the Australian dream is being lost by the spread of the global "culture of competition" and being swallowed by the more greedy "work work work" ethic that consumes us all and holds us into a life of bondage with our employers!

I dont want to be rich - I want to be free... Free from the burden of having to work! The American dream seems (from my twisted warped perspective ) to me to be almost the reverse of my dream!
[ June 26, 2005: Message edited by: Adrian Wallace ]
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
I agree with many thing you say.
"
The Australian dream is for everyone to be relaxed and happy and to work as little as possible!....
I want to be free... Free from the burden of having to work!
"
I am in Australia too and love it because of its 8hrs work days,
Drinking/Partying on Friday and Saturday like no tomorrow.
The laidback relaxed life.

But as you said the new �work work work� attitude is dawning and I don�t want to end you in the bread line(Centrelink) 10-20 yrs down the line.

As far as the tax well its all about how you handle it. I am contracting and know how to keep the tax in the 25 range (legally).

"About getting wealthy is very hard in Australia"

No actually its very easy. You mentioned the way yourself. �Overpriced goods� there is where the money is at the moment.
To start a business in Australia is one of the fastest in the world. You can get a ABN and stuff in a day.
Sure I don�t wanna work more than 40-50 hrs a week. But I would rather do this where I can utilize it the most.(even better delegate it to someone else like most project leaders/managers)
Would you not love to have the blend of the Aussie dream with the old American dream just out here? I sure would.
peter wooster
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Joined: Jun 13, 2004
Posts: 1033
Originally posted by Ajay Mathew:
But as you said the new �work work work� attitude is dawning and I don�t want to end you in the bread line(Centrelink) 10-20 yrs down the line.


The work, work, work and you just might escape the breadline attitude is not "new", its the oldest model around. It belongs in the 18th century, and its prevalence during the 19th and early 20th centuries gave rise to the union movement.
Aj Mathia
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Joined: Apr 11, 2003
Posts: 478
Originally posted by peter wooster:


The work, work, work and you just might escape the breadline attitude is not "new", its the oldest model around. It belongs in the 18th century, and its prevalence during the 19th and early 20th centuries gave rise to the union movement.


It seems like you did not get my point on this context.
I meant to put out that in Australia the attitude is way different Unlike in the Union movement where people are protesting for better working standards here the standards are way way up. There is plenty of flexibility and that places Australia in the elite Best Living Conditions group.
The problem mentioned earlier is the change towards more hard working attitude that�s coming in.
Personally I don�t mind working hard for 40-50 hrs a week.
But ok the topic now has moved from American Dream to the Australian Dream. Anyway that is equally interesting for me because im here.
I would say ideally the blend of the two with the right attitude will get you Your Dream anywhere. The whole concept of so many people crazy to get to the States seems just stupid.
Guess from a Americans view also the loads of immigrants pouring in is frustrating. And that surely makes the American dream loose its relevance.
Alan Wanwierd
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Joined: Jun 30, 2004
Posts: 624
Originally posted by peter wooster:


The work, work, work and you just might escape the breadline attitude is not "new", its the oldest model around. It belongs in the 18th century, and its prevalence during the 19th and early 20th centuries gave rise to the union movement.


Yes and the union movement went someway into massively improving working conditions for many. It could be argued that in the modern corporate world where unions have been sidelined and imasculated - that working conditions are being eroded once again and the working week is lengthening, stress levels growing and we're all getting more miserable and unhealthy again!

Now - if only we could keep these "greed" thing in check we could all work less and be happy!!!.... I blame the marketing/advertising industry! - They make us want crap we dont need - effectly forcing us to have to work hard to pay for it all!!!
 
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subject: American Dream