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New to frameworks

Wesley Baker
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Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 45
Greetings all -

I am new to the whole concept of MVC and web frameworks. I have been using straight Java code to create a few websites, and admittedly, the design aspects are pretty ugly to look at. It was a learning experience from day one, so as I learned new things (like JSTL, EL, not to use scriptlets, TLDs, etc), I ended up with a very patchy end product.

Now that I have some solid experience in Java as a language, and Java as a web language, I feel much more confident in taking the next step and understanding proper design and frameworks.

So my question is, what are the strengths of each popular framework, and are they right for what I design? Basically, most of the websites I design end up having a database backend, dynamic content, login requirements, and sometimes e-commerce. Nothing fancy, like EJBs, ORB, JMX, or anything.
Wesley Baker
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Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 45
For those interested, I have decided to test my mettle with Wicket. After doing some preliminary research, for a person new to MVC and new to Java frameworks, Wicket looks like to good starting point.
arulk pillai
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Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3219
So my question is, what are the strengths of each popular framework, and are they right for what I design? Basically, most of the websites I design end up having a database backend, dynamic content, login requirements, and sometimes e-commerce. Nothing fancy, like EJBs, ORB, JMX, or anything.


As far as a basic website goes

-- You need to persist data -- HIbernate is a popular framework
-- You need to build a website -- There are 2 types of frameworks

1. MVC based: E.g. Struts, Spring MVC, etc
2. Component based E.g. JSF, Tapestry

-- You need to use good design concepts, paradigms, practices, etc and need to be productive in building applications -- Spring, ApacheCommons library, Log4J, Junit, Maven2, etc.
[ November 05, 2008: Message edited by: arulk pillai ]

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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

1. MVC based: E.g. Struts, Spring MVC, etc
2. Component based E.g. JSF, Tapestry


Component based frameworks are generally also MVC based. So this is a bad categorization. What you probably meant was frameworks like Struts, SpringMVC, etc are action based.

Wesley, Wicket is a fine framework but its concepts are ,dare I say, radically different than what you are going to be used to. That might not be a bad thing but if you find yourself struggling with it you might consider something a bit simpler but just as robust, like Stripes.

Seems like you are doing the right thing though. Pick something and try it. That is the best way to find out if it is a right fit for you. There really is no best and worst.


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arulk pillai
Author
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Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3219
Thanks for correcting. I was meant to say action based.
Wesley Baker
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Joined: Aug 20, 2008
Posts: 45
Gregg -

From the few hours I have spent on researching Wicket, it does seem a bit outside of the box. There is something intuitive about it though, coming from someone who has never used a framework before. Well...PARTS of it are intuitive.

I took a look at the Stripes link you provided (it's stripesframework.org, btw) and it does look pretty simple to pick up. I think my hesitation in learning a framework initially was that it was just one more thing in the Java world I had to figure out and take time researching instead of spending that time developing. But if Stripes is as easy as it looks, there could be a good tradeoff ratio.

I really like how Wicket looks, but for the money (time = money), Stripes looks simpler and with less coding overhead. I think I will take a bit deeper look into it.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by Wesley Baker:
Gregg -

From the few hours I have spent on researching Wicket, it does seem a bit outside of the box. There is something intuitive about it though, coming from someone who has never used a framework before. Well...PARTS of it are intuitive.

I took a look at the Stripes link you provided (it's stripesframework.org, btw) and it does look pretty simple to pick up. I think my hesitation in learning a framework initially was that it was just one more thing in the Java world I had to figure out and take time researching instead of spending that time developing. But if Stripes is as easy as it looks, there could be a good tradeoff ratio.

I really like how Wicket looks, but for the money (time = money), Stripes looks simpler and with less coding overhead. I think I will take a bit deeper look into it.


Ugh! I always do the wrong extension. .org .org .org, beat into my brain.

Be sure and check out the book if it looks like you might stick with it. And feel free to ask questions here or on the Stripes mailing list.
 
 
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