This week's book giveaway is in the Servlets forum.
We're giving away four copies of Murach's Java Servlets and JSP and have Joel Murach on-line!
See this thread for details.
The moose likes Agile and Other Processes and the fly likes Contract Renegotiation Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


Win a copy of Murach's Java Servlets and JSP this week in the Servlets forum!
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Engineering » Agile and Other Processes
Bookmark "Contract Renegotiation" Watch "Contract Renegotiation" New topic
Author

Contract Renegotiation

Darya Akbari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1855
What do you think about renegotiation of your project deadline :?:

Shouldn't there be many renegotiation sessions with your client due to additional requirements :?:


SCJP, SCJD, SCWCD, SCBCD
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
I think the contract should be written in such a manner in the first place that renegotiating the content or delivery date does not require rewriting the contract. In other words, the contract should allow for changes.


Author of Test Driven (2007) and Effective Unit Testing (2013) [Blog] [HowToAskQuestionsOnJavaRanch]
Darya Akbari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1855
Lasse Koskela wrote:I think the contract should be written in such a manner in the first place that renegotiating the content or delivery date does not require rewriting the contract. In other words, the contract should allow for changes.


This seems to be the best case to have a client who allows changes to a contract. But is that realistic? I haven't seen such client.
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
a client who allows changes to a contract. But is that realistic? I haven't seen such client.

Note that I didn't say changes to the contract. I'm referring to one contract allowing changes in what is being developed under that contract. And it is business as usual for my company (a software consultancy).
Darya Akbari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1855
Lasse Koskela wrote:Note that I didn't say changes to the contract. I'm referring to one contract allowing changes in what is being developed under that contract. And it is business as usual for my company (a software consultancy).


Well our clients never sign such kind of contracts .

But anyway, don't you have to negotiate the new requirements that arise during your project? Or how do you charge your client for your extra work?
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
Darya Akbari wrote:
Lasse Koskela wrote:I'm referring to one contract allowing changes in what is being developed under that contract.

But anyway, don't you have to negotiate the new requirements that arise during your project? Or how do you charge your client for your extra work?

Yes, the "requirements" are negotiated during the project. That's the whole point - we don't want to write a contract that prevents this negotiation from happening. Or, we don't want to renegotiate a contract just to renegotiate requirements.

The contract is about the business relationship between two companies. The requirements are about what the two companies build within that relationship. By mixing the two into a contract, we would be simply creating a dysfunctional relationship - one where the two companies' interests are constantly clashing.

You might want to check out some of the links regarding "agile contracts" that I've bookmarked into del.icio.us.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Lasse Koskela wrote:
You might want to check out some of the links regarding "agile contracts" that I've bookmarked into del.icio.us.


Or a bit more specific: http://delicious.com/lassekoskela/contracts+agile

Good collection of resources, by the way


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Darya Akbari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1855
Lasse Koskela wrote:Yes, the "requirements" are negotiated during the project. That's the whole point - we don't want to write a contract that prevents this negotiation from happening. Or, we don't want to renegotiate a contract just to renegotiate requirements.

The contract is about the business relationship between two companies. The requirements are about what the two companies build within that relationship. By mixing the two into a contract, we would be simply creating a dysfunctional relationship - one where the two companies' interests are constantly clashing.

You might want to check out some of the links regarding "agile contracts" that I've bookmarked into del.icio.us.


Thanks Lasse for your bookmarks, I'll will definitely go through all of them. What I've seen so far from them is that they distinguish between fixed-price and optional scope contracts. How do you sell a optional scope project to a new client who want to hear a fixed price from you? How do you sell an optional scope contract when there are others (your competitors) who give a razor sharp fixed price to the client.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Darya Akbari wrote:How do you sell a optional scope project to a new client who want to hear a fixed price from you? How do you sell an optional scope contract when there are others (your competitors) who give a razor sharp fixed price to the client.


Well, it depends on prior experiences of the client. Some clients actually do understand that fixed prices basically mean that it's the quality that's variable. Often they just don't know any alternative.
Lasse Koskela
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jan 23, 2002
Posts: 11962
    
    5
Darya Akbari wrote:How do you sell a optional scope project to a new client who want to hear a fixed price from you? How do you sell an optional scope contract when there are others (your competitors) who give a razor sharp fixed price to the client.

If the client wants a fixed price, fixed scope contract, it's your responsibility to help him understand that it might not be in his best interest. If he fails to see that, then you can't sell an optional scope project to him.

I'm not saying it's easy to get these kinds of contracts. It might require a fixed-everything contract to get that relationship started. Once the client understands that you're not trying to screw with him, and when he's seen the quality and integrity of your work, he's that much more comfortable with the idea of not fixing everything in a contract. And one day, you'll be able to sell an optional scope project to that client.

As far as competition goes, if they bid on a fixed-everything contract then that's their loss (including the client). If they bid lower than you, they're either better suited for the job or they're shooting themselves in the foot. In either case, again it's their loss. You could bid even lower than them but that would be like pointing shotguns at both of your feet. Instead, you should try to help the client see your value-add, the advantage you can provide over your competition. And the optional scope contract model might be one big advantage...
Darya Akbari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Posts: 1855
Lasse Koskela wrote:I'm not saying it's easy to get these kinds of contracts. It might require a fixed-everything contract to get that relationship started. Once the client understands that you're not trying to screw with him, and when he's seen the quality and integrity of your work, he's that much more comfortable with the idea of not fixing everything in a contract. And one day, you'll be able to sell an optional scope project to that client.


This is the way how it works in a competitive situation. At the begin of a relationship to a new customer we need a fixed price contract. Later when there is trust between you and the client you can use an optional scope contract.
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Contract Renegotiation
 
Similar Threads
Happy Birthday!
Sesion renegotiation and JDK 1.6 20 with Pramati 5.0 SP3
Burnout
Role and Experience
Java popular in India?