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self taught

Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
I was just wondering how many of you are self-taugh Java programmers, or have you all taken courses to learn all of this?
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
I initially learned Java by reading Java in a Nutshell while lying sick in a London hotel while my family was having fun in the City.

By the time my employer paid for training I already knew most of what was taught (though you always pick up something new).

Have I had formal training? Yes. But I'd say that at 80% or so of my knowledge is acquired from reading books and websites, visiting forums, and experimentation rather than being taught by a teacher in some formal setting.


42
Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
I guess I'll need to buy more books!

The problem I have is that I tend to want to know everything all at once. My husband tells everyone that I program like one of those monkeys that will eventually write out the works of Shakespeare. I keep trying something and when it doesn't do what I was expecting, I go back and try something else.

I now know about a lot of things I don't think I'll use.
Arjunkumar Shastry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Posts: 986
Originally posted by Alice B Palmer:
I was just wondering how many of you are self-taugh Java programmers, or have you all taken courses to learn all of this?

I took one course in java somtime around 1998.Later worked on many non java areas with java touch sometimes. I think those who have coded in C/C++ must have easily mastered Java (atleast core java).
[ April 25, 2006: Message edited by: Arjunkumar Shastry ]

Namma Suvarna Karnataka
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Don't talk about buying more books, my library is already bursting at the seams and I've restricted myself to a single visit to the computer bookstore per month for budget reasons (but Amazon is always lurking in the background).
Sunil Kumar Gupta
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2005
Posts: 824
Originally posted by Arjunkumar Shastry:

I think those who have coded in C/C++ must have easily mastered Java (atleast core java).


Ya, You are right, I have naver taken any java course. My C and C++ was good. So i never faced any problem in java.



Lack of will power has caused more failure than lack of intelligence or ability.
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Peter Rooke
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 803

Completely self taught in Java (J2EE), never been on a course  . Started this way to: hacked around with Shell Scripts, Pascal (a nice starting language), C, Informix 4GL (and some candygrammer �turbo basic� stuff).

Only after about eight years of hacking (employment), did I get to University and discovered software design: DFD�s (SSADM), Objects (OMT, C++), and also sorts of other stuff. But for the most part they taught high level software design and low level programming (C++, prolog) � maybe I missed something, but the two were never really joined together. Guess this had to do with the two types of lectures: those that wore suits, and those who hacked Linux kernels (and wore whatever).

As part of a course someone tried teaching us COBOL once,  but I was a C programmer at that time � and so hated COBOL (still do) � remember those horrible screen design forms, and code grinding till your fingers are numb.

�Never let your education get in the way of your learning.� - Thomas Payne.


Regards Pete
Svend Rost
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 904
I guess im a mix (as most of the younger developers probably are).

I learned about Java for the first time in 2000 when I was a 1. year student.

Since then I've had classes/done projects at uni, studying by myself to learn
new features of the language and finally I've learned Java while working part time during my education.

/Svend Rost
Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
Thank you all for telling me your story. At least now I know I can learn it without going to a class (of which there aren't any around where I live!).

I started programming in 1987...in Pascal, so a lot of the things here are new to me. I did play around a bit with ExcelVB. I just thought I ought to learn something useful.
Bo Yyempeti
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 111
Alice,

The most difficult programming language to learn is your first.

I learnt Java out of a couple of books in '97.
Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
Bhoooooo,

Any suggestions on books. I've bought Beginning Java 2, but I don't find it the easiest thing to follow. I'm afraid I've been using the Java Tutorial, but that doesn't always have all the answers I'm looking for.
Jeroen T Wenting
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 21, 2006
Posts: 1847
Head First Java, and following that Head First Design Patterns.
Svend Rost
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 904
Hi Alice,

When you ask the question: "do I need to take classes to learn Java",
you need to consider that people have different backgrounds.

If you've got an it-education and/or documented expirience in the software
field you dont need to take a class to prove that you can program in a
given language. Learning a the syntax of a programming language isn't that
hard - but learning a new paradigme (object oriented, procedural, ect.) can
be a challenge.

If your looking for books on java take a look at javaranch.com/books.jsp
I think you should try to find one, that'll give you a good introduction to
the world of objects (given your background in Pascal and VB).

/Svend Rost
Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
Svend,

IT background? Me? I'm actually a biologist, but I find programming very logical and I like that. I have struggled with getting my head around object oriented programming and I think I may have cracked that bit, because a whole new world opened up to me and it made a lot more sense! I have looked through the book list on JavaRanch and I think I may have to save up for a couple.

Do I need to start worrying though, if I'm start to dream about Java?
Svend Rost
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2002
Posts: 904
Originally posted by Alice B Palmer:
IT background? Me? I'm actually a biologist, but I find programming very logical and I like that.
...
Do I need to start worrying though, if I'm start to dream about Java?


If your goal is just to learn to program and do it as a hobby - then you
dont need to worry about anything - just have fun, because it's all good

However, I assume your goal is to become a java-/it developer. I dont think
you need to worry, but you need to be realistic, as the competition is
hard in the EU/US (which is where I guess your from). If you've got work
expirience that will work in your advantage, and it might be easier for you
to get a job in some sort of Bio-/Bioinformatic company.

I dont hope I've "scared" you in any way. Im not saying that it will be
impossible to get a job, but all im saying is that getting the first job might take some time.
So happy coding.. and dont be a stranger in the Meaningless Drivel

/Svend Rost
agrah upadhyay
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 01, 2005
Posts: 579
COMPETELY 100% self-taught.No training or tutorial, just self-study by books.
Also just a mediocre level knoledge of PERL before learning it.
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6661
    
    5

Classes dont work for me at all ! I find them good only to sleep in. Self taught thanks to well written books.


SCJP 6 articles - SCJP 5/6 mock exams - More SCJP Mocks
Rajan Chinna
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 01, 2004
Posts: 320
My XX company put me in a J2EE weblogic project in 2001, honestly I don't know Java then. I learned J2EE myself reading books/WWW and completed that project which still runs I guess. But much of my learning come thru SCJP & SCWCD exams.
As said above if one knows programming language its not big deal to pickup java.
One more self taught guy.
Bo Yyempeti
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 22, 2006
Posts: 111
Originally posted by Alice B Palmer:
Bhoooooo,

Any suggestions on books. I've bought Beginning Java 2, but I don't find it the easiest thing to follow. I'm afraid I've been using the Java Tutorial, but that doesn't always have all the answers I'm looking for.


Sorry, I can't help you there, Alice - its been a while since I touched any books in Java.

I remember "Thinking in Java" being highly recommended, but I think that is for the intermediate level reader.

The tutorial & Javadoc combination is quite a good way to start. Where the tutorials do not satiate your desire to learn, look up the Javadocs.

If you hit any problems, try to google for an answer. If that doesn't work either, post in the main sections of these fora.

There is a SUN sponsored forum at forums.java.sun.com as well where you will get a much more pedantic answer to your queries. That forum is unmoderated, though and some posters do get easily antagonised. If you do post in both forums, it is a good practice to mention that in your post.
Eric Pascarello
author
Rancher

Joined: Nov 08, 2001
Posts: 15376
    
    6
I am a self taught programmer and it has done nothing for me.. :roll:

LOL

Eric
Alice B Palmer
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 25
Thank you all for the encouragement that I can do this. I think I just have to work through my current brick wall. I'm sure once my "cardboard programmer" (aka husband) comes back from his contract things will become easier.
 
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