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What is the point of the advanced Java section?

Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4659
    
    5

Long ago, I asked why is there an "Advanced topic" section when every thread that gets started there gets moved. I don't just mean questions that are not advanced, they are properly moved to Beginners or Intermediate.

Just look at the section, the vast majority of threads are moved or closed.

I don't get it.

Here is an example, my thread:
http://www.coderanch.com/t/432346/OO-Patterns-UML-Refactoring/Philosophy-List-Collection-returns#top

is not about OO in general, Paterns, Gang of Four, UML, or refactoring. ITs about the engineering decisions that advanced Java designers have to make.
And it got some intellegent answers when it was in Advanced. It got moved, and has died.

I'm not too worried about one thread, but I fail to see what is the point of a section if all of the threads are killed out of it.
Can some of the old time Bartenders shed some light here?

Thanks
Pat
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24187
    
  34

Honestly, there's no point to it. Java just isn't a complicated-enough language to inspire any really complex questions about the language itself.

We've talked about getting rid of it altogether, and in fact, I think we decided to do that as soon as we're settled in with the new software. We'd have "JiG(Beginner)" and "JiG(Intermediate/Advanced.)" We have in fact settled in, I would say; I guess it's time to consider making that change.

I think that your thread does belong where it got moved, although that forum perhaps ought to have the word "design" in its name -- that's how I think of it, anyway.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4659
    
    5

Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:Honestly, there's no point to it. Java just isn't a complicated-enough language to inspire any really complex questions about the language itself.


I think that was the decision way back when I first asked this.

And I tend to agree that Java isn't cursed with the technical complexity. The tag-lines on the intermediate need to be tweaked, talking about PhD is not a very good criteria.

I'd be very interested in a catchall 'advanced' section for discussions of implementing hard algorithms, philosophy of design, rules learned the hard way, etc.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18978
    
  40

I actually like the current setup. I think everything seems to be moved because all the difficult topics seems to be related to something -- framework, open source, threads, etc. Having a forum where everything is moved may be bad, but the good part is that the other two forums don't have this problem. If intermediate and advanced was merged, I don't think it will cut down on moves -- it will just clutter the intermediate forums with lots of topics that got moved.

Just my 2 cents...

Henry

Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638

Pat Farrell wrote:It got moved, and has died.


I don't think the move killed the thread. Its just a coincidence that there were no more answers after the move. Maybe, there is nothing left in there to discuss.


apigee, a better way to API!
Nitesh Kant
Bartender

Joined: Feb 25, 2007
Posts: 1638

Henry Wong wrote:I actually like the current setup. I think everything seems to be moved because all the difficult topics seems to be related to something -- framework, open source, threads, etc. Having a forum where everything is moved may be bad, but the good part is that the other two forums don't have this problem. If intermediate and advanced was merged, I don't think it will cut down on moves -- it will just clutter the intermediate forums with lots of topics that got moved.

Just my 2 cents...

Henry


+1.

People "feel" that the questions they are asking are advanced but they are actually not.
Just for the reason that something must be happening in a forum we should not start topics there.
Different people have different notions about the toughness of the questions and probably if someone feel that the move was not justified then it can always be discussed.

(Regarding the topic that started this, i don't think one has to be an "advanced" java developers to think about using a List or Collection as return type of method. )


paul wheaton
Trailboss

Joined: Dec 14, 1998
Posts: 20690
    ∞

I think moving the thread in question was fine. Good job Nitesh.

I think the forum merging thing is fine. If any sheriff has the gumption to do the work involved, go for it!

Iteratively yours,

Paul, the wicked, evil tyrant of this here site




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