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Why am I doing SCJP?

jimmy topper
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 5
Being jobless with a degree in comp-sci (C++ trained), I decided to teach myself Java (the proper way) and also pass the SCJP-6.
In the last 3 weeks I have read HeadFirst Java, SCJP-5 w/ Paul Sanghara, and of course SCJP w/Sierra & Bates (half-way through reading for 2nd time).

Now I'm seeing online how Java is dying a slow death. (Sure, if you have 5+ yrs in development experience there are jobs you can jump into. But, it seems like Java has become "legacy"...thus only "old hats" are wanted.)

The more I understand Java the more I like how it all makes sense to me, but I am too new to see its shortcomings against .NET or PHP, Ruby or whatever? Is the tide moving ever-so-slow away from Java front-end (followed by back-end) development?

Are .NET, Ruby, Ajax, and PHP taking over (.NET especially)? I read it has something to do with a decision the Sun engineers made a while ago with how Java relates to server side?

Anyway, am I over reacting? Am I full of it? Am I miss-informed? Oh ya, also, I'm pretty much stuck in tech backwater Milwaukee, WI. And I'm getting sick of seeing job postings looking like this: Preferred candidate will have experience with C#, VB.NET, ASP, PHP, Perl, Python, C, C++, COBOL, Ajax, J2EE, Servlets, Oracle, plSQL, MySQL, JSP, XML, DB2, Sybase, AIX, Unix,....OK, I may have gotten carried away, but please understand my frustration.

I read how IBM wanted to buy Sun (nixed). Was their intent to chop it up and cast it off to the outsourcing world? From the sheer number of Indian names on this section of the forum, Java does seem to have gone that way already! Even if Java's future is stable, do I need move to Chenai for a job? Has Java development (in the eyes of U.S. companies) been commoditized?

Have I wasted this precious last month not learning C#, ASP, .NET...? Of course being well rounded is nice....if you know you're going to live to be 180 years old. The programming landscape is way too broad to be a jack-of-all-trades anymore....and I threw my lot in with Java....please tell me I didn't screw up. It's too hard to study something this intense if I'm having doubts about it.

I'll drink the Java Kool-Aid by the gallon if someone can tell me it has a promising future and is not just clinging to the glory days of 1999.

Thanks for reading my rant.
Marcus Green
arch rival
Rancher

Joined: Sep 14, 1999
Posts: 2813
I just did two searches at www.jobserve.co.uk

one was for C#
It returned
541 results

Then for Java
It returned
514

Have you any quantitative evidence for Java being a legacy product?

Assuming that in an economic downturn companies will be interested in lower licence costs I would suggest that the Java is unlikely to be a legacy product in the near future.


SCWCD: Online Course, 50,000+ words and 200+ questions
http://www.examulator.com/moodle/course/view.php?id=5&topic=all
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

I'll drink the Java Kool-Aid by the gallon if someone can tell me it has a promising future and is not just clinging to the glory days of 1999.


IMO, for languages, I am not sure if drinking the Kool-Aid is ever a good idea.

I say, learn them all, at least enough to distinguish what is better for what. Then choose the one that you are likely to use more. and dive into that. And if you encounter something that could be done better by something else, in your day to day work later, then dive into that then.

Learning is supposed to be fun. Enjoy it.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
K. Tsang
Bartender

Joined: Sep 13, 2007
Posts: 2524
    
    8

I have thought of this same question when I first started prepping for the SCJP. Now that I got SCJP and waiting for SCJD, Java in general will stay and won't become legacy. As for opportunity it really depends on you.

Different companies have their own platform or preference. If they are already Java based, I don't see why they won't just drop Java and move to .NET and vice versa. Therefore you shouldn't need to worry.

I agree with Henry learning new things is a process and you should take full advantage of it whether you like it or not.


K. Tsang JavaRanch SCJP5 SCJD/OCM-JD OCPJP7 OCPWCD5 OCPBCD5
jimmy topper
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 5
Thanks for bucking me up here.

I'm just feeling desperate because I'm gambling with time....every day I don't get a job looks worse for me. I don't have the ability to BS with a smile on my face during an interview. If I've just done a "Teach Yourself Perl in 24 Hours"....I'm not good at imparting that you should pay me $60K to be a Perl programmer.

OK, back to the books. I'll try harder at learning both Java and .NET....and BS-ing
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

I'm just feeling desperate because I'm gambling with time....every day I don't get a job looks worse for me. I don't have the ability to BS with a smile on my face during an interview. If I've just done a "Teach Yourself Perl in 24 Hours"....I'm not good at imparting that you should pay me $60K to be a Perl programmer.

OK, back to the books. I'll try harder at learning both Java and .NET....and BS-ing ...


Woah... At no time during this topic did anyone suggest (or even implied) that you should learn a subject, so you can BS through an interview. In fact, I highly recommend against that.

Henry
jimmy topper
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 5
That is NOT my intention either...and could not be further from it. The last part was an attempt at self-deprecating humor...won't happen again.

It's just that I've seen classmates landing great jobs where I KNOW the skill-set did not come close to matching the requirements.

Java was required in various class projects, but we all muddled though them in a procedural/Google-cut-paste manor. I'd be embarrassed to show any employer that code...that's why I'm on this quest in the first place.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61433
    
  67

jimmy topper wrote:... where I KNOW the skill-set did not come close to matching the requirements.

Employers (stupidly, in my opinion) tend to list every possible technology that they can think of. The chances of finding someone who possesses any sort of substantive knowledge in the complete list of alphabet soup is nil. Generally, don't let the acronym wish list deter you unless you can't speak to anything on it.


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
I'll go out on a limb with some wild, over-generalizations, maybe they'll help:

If you are going to work in a bigger shop, putting together large server apps I'd guess that, overall, Java and .net both have a big market share.

If you are going to work in a smaller shop, then Python or Ruby might be more popular.


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
jimmy topper
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 5
Thank you all for talking me off the ledge. I'll report back when I pass.

FYI, this is part of what drove me out there:
http://www.cringely.com/2009/04/the-sun-also-sets/
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Bear Bibeault wrote:
jimmy topper wrote:... where I KNOW the skill-set did not come close to matching the requirements.

Employers (stupidly, in my opinion) tend to list every possible technology that they can think of. The chances of finding someone who possesses any sort of substantive knowledge in the complete list of alphabet soup is nil. Generally, don't let the acronym wish list deter you unless you can't speak to anything on it.


It is also a sign that employers generally have no clue what much of the technology is... My favorite advert was in 1997. I remember someone showing me a help wanted that required 5 years of Java experience.

Henry
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61433
    
  67

Henry Wong wrote:... in 1997. I remember someone showing me a help wanted that required 5 years of Java experience.

So I should take the "30 years Java experience" off my resume?
Ruben Soto
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 16, 2008
Posts: 1032
Bear Bibeault wrote:
Henry Wong wrote:... in 1997. I remember someone showing me a help wanted that required 5 years of Java experience.

So I should take the "30 years Java experience" off my resume?

Only if you didn't come through a time portal.


All code in my posts, unless a source is explicitly mentioned, is my own.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61433
    
  67

Ruben Soto wrote:Only if you didn't come through a time portal.


Dang! BUSTED!



Ruben Soto
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 16, 2008
Posts: 1032
To the OP:

This traveler from the future's wise words have proven that your concerns about Java's survival are unwarranted. On the other hand, I think I remember the Morlocks in The Time Machine saying something about Microsoft's debacle. But that might have been the drugs.
jimmy topper
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 12, 2009
Posts: 5
Boo-ya......PASSED SCJP!!
Now, where'd all the jobs go?
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14270
    
  21

jimmy topper wrote:Now I'm seeing online how Java is dying a slow death. (Sure, if you have 5+ yrs in development experience there are jobs you can jump into. But, it seems like Java has become "legacy"...thus only "old hats" are wanted.)

Where are you seeing this, and how do you know that it's really the case? Because it's absolutely not true, Java is used everywhere in business. Don't take anything you read on the Internet to be true...

Is the tide moving ever-so-slow away from Java front-end (followed by back-end) development?

No, on the contrary, JavaFX is hot at the moment and might become a serious competitor for Adobe Flash and Microsoft Silverlight in the future.

Anyway, am I over reacting? Am I full of it? Am I miss-informed?

I think so...

I read how IBM wanted to buy Sun (nixed). Was their intent to chop it up and cast it off to the outsourcing world?

Oracle recently bought Sun (the deal with IBM didn't go through). Java is not going to go away anytime soon, it's too big and too important.

Congratulations on passing the SCJP!


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