File APIs for Java Developers
Manipulate DOC, XLS, PPT, PDF and many others from your application.
http://aspose.com/file-tools
The moose likes Jobs Discussion and the fly likes Passionate Programmer OR Management Guy Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


Win a copy of Spring in Action this week in the Spring forum!
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Careers » Jobs Discussion
Bookmark "Passionate Programmer OR Management Guy" Watch "Passionate Programmer OR Management Guy" New topic
Author

Passionate Programmer OR Management Guy

Sagar Rohankar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 2902
    
    1

Hi All,

90 % of my techie friends who are in software field preparing for MBA, (some people got admissions too ). When I asked why did you want to go for higher studies so early OR do you fed up working as a programmer ? They always replied like, "Look, you never want to code for your entire life, somewhere down the line you want to be a management guy mentoring and handling the business, the clients and to achieve that responsibility you need to be a management graduate. Now the whole thing of doing MBA is getting more salary, more money.

So my question is, being a passionate programmer can I earn as equally as of those managements guys.

PS: I never want to do MBA or not at least for 6-7 years.


[LEARNING bLOG] | [Freelance Web Designer] | [and "Rohan" is part of my surname]
Katrina Owen
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 03, 2006
Posts: 1364
    
  17
I suspect that you would earn more as an awesome programmer than a mediocre manager.
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
You can grow in technical direction as well and earn good money may not be just as a programmer, but from programmer to senior programmer, technical leader, technical architect, enterprise architect ........


Sandeep
Sagar Rohankar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 2902
    
    1

Hi Rajesh,
You're form India, so you can know the situation better. Many young grads opting for the MBA course after they had some corporate experience and the intention was clear, when they passed out 2 years later, they will definitely got more package as compared to one who has same year of software industry experience. And this is actually happening here.

That's why I'm worried.
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Sagar Rohankar wrote:
So my question is, being a passionate programmer can I earn as equally as of those managements guys.


That very much depends on company culture.

I'd say that a company where people that go into management are set up to have better careers that those that stay in programming is set up for serious trouble, though.


The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Think only on those things that are in line with your principles and can bear the light of day. The content of your character is your choice. Day by day, what you do is who you become. Your integrity is your destiny - it is the light that guides your way. - Heraclitus
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
My personal opnion is, growing in technical is little harder than growing in management simply because technologies changes, new framework comes, new tools comes, and most important is you need luck to get the work/scope which will help you to grow technically. You constantly need to update yourself on new technologies, new tools etc. Once you get married, kids etc, you many not be able to give so much time for it. You also need some senior preferably a experienced architect who can mentor you. Many things you will have to learn by observing these architects when they do design, how they think, their technical vision etc. If you have passion for technology, you will automatically observe them and learn from them.
On the other hand if you get 6-7 years of experience as programmer, sr. programmer and get one management degree, you start growing like team leader, project leader, project manager, sr. project manager etc.
There are companies in India where you can grow technically. Most of these companies are prodcut companies. These companies prefer to recurit engineering graduates ( some ppl may not agree with this ). Once you get into product company at technical leader level then it is easier for you to grow as technical architect / enterprise technical architect because you will get chance to work closely with these architects.
If you do management degree from colleges like ISB, IIM then it is very easy for you to grow in management in big branded companies. I personally feel you should choose direction which you love to do. Management degree is not just software project management but it covers lot of things. But important thing is you have to choose what you love to do.
Vyas Sanzgiri
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 16, 2007
Posts: 686

Well said Rajesh


===Vyas Sanzgiri===
My Blog
Sagar Rohankar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 2902
    
    1

Thanks Rajesh and Ilja, I'm learning this trade (just 1.5 years old to this industry ) and as you people said, its totally depends upon the kind of organization you're working with. If its product base company, then the require high technical skilled resource, then they really wouldn't bother about your management degree. On the other hand, if the company is service based where company need to keep good relations with clients, more interaction with them, ones managerial skills comes handy.
Chad Fowler
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 19, 2009
Posts: 38
Hi Sagar. I'd say it depends very much not just on company culture (good point Ilja) but also on your country's culture.

If you were in the US or Europe I would strongly argue that moving into management isn't necessary to achieve your goals. In India, the story is slightly different. Worldwide, we have preconceived notions of what the 'right' career path is. But I haven't seen this stronger than in India. IT companies tend to be very hierarchical, and the natural progression is to go from programmer to designer to architect to team lead to program manager, etc. etc.

This is not always the case in India. It doesn't have to be the case. But it usually is. I have several friends who are successful technology gurus in India and have managed to avoid the management track. It can be done. But I think to do it you need to be even more remarkable than you would in other parts of the world where the career progression culture is less rigid.

I'd love to see this change for the sake of the IT industry and India's IT industry specifically. I don't think it's healthy to assume that success == management. Management is a type of job that's very different from programming. People who are good at one won't necessarily be good at the other. So it really doesn't make sense as a default career path.


The Passionate Programmer: Creating a Remarkable Career in Software Development
http://www.pragprog.com/titles/cfcar2/the-passionate-programmer
http://chadfowler.com
Michael Rivera
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 122

IMHO, Being a passionate programmer is really the one making your career and life into what you wanted! because you are hardly working because you really like what you are doing and everything seems normal with some time of getting pressures from your superior. Eventually in my case i will be needing financial stuff for building a family and thus wanted a higher salary , and entering management would be the only thing in mind, ofcourse people skills are going to be my skill for this and if i have that and done doing programming then ill be satisfied for my life if and only if i have the savings for my family from all those hardship i made throughout my techy life!


So many things to do so little time !!!
@mikedroid myLinkedIn
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30762
    
156

I'm from the United States. Even here, it's harder to stay technical. You have to really enjoy it. And be willing to speak up to defend why you want to stay technical. People used to the "career path" where you become a manager and define it as success.

It's not the only career path though. And if you want a different one, it's up to you to speak up.


[Blog] [JavaRanch FAQ] [How To Ask Questions The Smart Way] [Book Promos]
Blogging on Certs: SCEA Part 1, Part 2 & 3, Core Spring 3, OCAJP, OCPJP beta, TOGAF part 1 and part 2
Michael Rivera
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 122

@jeanne i totally agree!
Sagar Rohankar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 2902
    
    1

Chad Fowler wrote:I'd say it depends very much not just on company culture (good point Ilja) but also on your country's culture.

Chad Fowler wrote:I don't think it's healthy to assume that success == management. Management is a type of job that's very different from programming. People who are good at one won't necessarily be good at the other. So it really doesn't make sense as a default career path.

Thanks Chad for such wonderful explanation, and I'm happy to knew that you have been to India and know the culture very well. So may I conclude that its really NOT necessary to be an management graduate to climb up the ladder of success in software industry.

Thanks Michael & Jeanne for your thoughts.
arulk pillai
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3223
Katrina Owen wrote:I suspect that you would earn more as an awesome programmer than a mediocre manager.



Agree. Especially contracting . I once had a manager saying to me while distributing pay slips "I wish I had your job". At the end of the day money is not everything. One should enjoy what she or he does.


Java Interview Questions and Answers Blog | Amazon.com profile | Java Interview Books
Karnati Sudhakar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 26, 2008
Posts: 270

Everyone is saying we should do what we are interested in but dont you think people find interest in areas where they can earn more money.

In two words more money more interested towards that


Regards
Sudhakar
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Karnati Sudhakar wrote:Everyone is saying we should do what we are interested in but dont you think people find interest in areas where they can earn more money.

In two words more money more interested towards that


No, I seriously don't think so.
Sagar Rohankar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 19, 2008
Posts: 2902
    
    1

arulk pillai wrote:
Katrina Owen wrote:I suspect that you would earn more as an awesome programmer than a mediocre manager.

I once had a manager saying to me while distributing pay slips "I wish I had your job".

Grass is always greener on other side
arulk pillai wrote:
At the end of the day money is not everything.

Before saying that, make sure you earn pretty enough for life.
Michael Rivera
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 122

let's get real, Money is really a factor for humans! and doing what you want while having high salary is really a dream for us!
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30762
    
156

Karnati Sudhakar wrote:Everyone is saying we should do what we are interested in but dont you think people find interest in areas where they can earn more money.

In two words more money more interested towards that

While one can find interest in something, it's not the same as being passionate about it. Many developers that are passionate about technology aren't passionate about management. I'd rather earn less money doing something I enjoy. In other words, it's not about paying me more to be unhappy!
Leandro Coutinho
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2009
Posts: 417
Peter Norvig was a developer at NASA and I suppose he earned a lot of money.
Would he earning more money now as Director of Research at Google


Leandro Coutinho
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2009
Posts: 417
Leandro Coutinho wrote:Peter Norvig was a developer at NASA and I suppose he earned a lot of money.
Would he earning more money now as Director of Research at Google



horrible post

I loved Katrina answer!!! This motivate me to be a programmer. Other thing that motivates me is the guy that earned $800,000.00 in 6 months with an iPhone game. xD
Ilja Preuss
author
Sheriff

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 14112
Michael Rivera wrote:let's get real, Money is really a factor for humans! and doing what you want while having high salary is really a dream for us!


Money is a strong *de*motivator when you feel you don't get what you deserve. It's not a great motivator, though.

In fact, extrinsic motivation (like from getting more money) has been shown to be more weak than intrinsic motivation (like being passionate about something), and that it can actually *kill* intrinsic motivation (for example, money bonuses are a great way to *kill* passion.)
Michael Rivera
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 122

when i said a dream , think of it as a plus doing what you love and at one time you did not know that you're earning that much every hour!
Thai C. Tran
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 05, 2009
Posts: 26
Good reference

arulk pillai
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3223
Thai Tran Cao wrote:Good reference





It is a good one Thai.
Leandro Coutinho
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 04, 2009
Posts: 417
Sagar Rohankar wrote:When I asked why did you want to go for higher studies so early OR do you fed up working as a programmer ? They always replied like, "Look, you never want to code for your entire life ..."
It depends. Some people like to code. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/295
 
 
subject: Passionate Programmer OR Management Guy