This week's book giveaway is in the OCPJP forum.
We're giving away four copies of OCA/OCP Java SE 7 Programmer I & II Study Guide and have Kathy Sierra & Bert Bates on-line!
See this thread for details.
The moose likes JavaFX and the fly likes Essential JavaFX: Why No Real RIA? Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login


Win a copy of OCA/OCP Java SE 7 Programmer I & II Study Guide this week in the OCPJP forum!
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Java » JavaFX
Bookmark "Essential JavaFX: Why No Real RIA?" Watch "Essential JavaFX: Why No Real RIA?" New topic
Author

Essential JavaFX: Why No Real RIA?

Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

It would seem that the existing books (including Essential JavaFX) don't include any realistic RIA examples (Sorry, a guitar tuner, while cool, is not what we need). I'm curious why this is? Why all this intro stuff with no real substance? I want to know how to create an RIA that can compete with Flex/Silverlight using JavaFX, yet this kind of information doesn't exist. The closest thing I know of is the JavaFX Petstore however, it looks atrocious and runs even more atrocious.

Is it that JavaFX is still too young? Is it because the API isn't ready for real world (business) apps? Is it because no one really knows how? I have my own theories but I'd like to hear some others.


GenRocket - Experts at Building Test Data
Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
Hi Gregg-

I can address your question in terms of Essential JavaFX. Essential JavaFX is meant to introduce programmers to JavaFX. We chose examples to illustrate the various features of JavaFX: animation, UI controls, special effects, Swing components, graphical objects, image manipulation, web services, and mobil applications. Small, self-contained examples are easier to grasp than large-scale systems.

But, Sun Microsystems is building a such an example and while it is still a work in progress, it is not just an example. It is a live commercial system: the App Store. I think a contributing reason for using JavaFX (besides making it easier), is to show the commercial viability of JavaFX (again, just my opinion here).
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Thanks Gail. My small problem with this is books that show this information already exist. Your book may cover more, be better, whatever the case may be. I'm not saying you shouldn't have written it. But the fact is, and this isn't just JavaFX, that most books that cover "features" don't provide much more than can be found on the web, although just in a single source. Especially when it comes to UI type features. The information I need isn't in the intricacies of the API. I can figure that out as I go. What I need is how to put it all together. So take this as a hint to possibly writing a follow up book.

So is the app store code going to be released? Or is it just show case of what is possible with no real explanation?
Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
The App Store is not meant to be a show case (that is a side effect). It is a commercial venture by Sun so that application developers can sell their applications (similar to the iPhone app store).
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

That's kind of my point. That's great Sun can build that. TEACH US HOW! This has been a long standing issue with Swing as well. It's great that apps like IntelliJ IDEA, Netbeans, etc exist. But there is no good consolidated information on how to build these kinds of applications.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61457
    
  67

Until this happens, I fear JavaFX will get no traction in the real world.


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Bear Bibeault wrote:Until this happens, I fear JavaFX will get no traction in the real world.



It's so funny because I am having major deja vu moments right now. Seems like all these similar conversations were being had when Sun released JSF ( way too early I might add ). Oddly enough, even though JSF is still horrible, it has a fairly large adoption.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61457
    
  67

Inexplicably.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
I am also interested in building full desktop applications.

I dont think any book deal with such issues. All of the books, be it Swing or any other language. None teaches a beginner on how to build a full fledge working application. Real world applications.

I cant say anything about Essential JavaFX, but this sort of trend does exist
Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
I'm betting that you will see more examples. But, since JavaFX doesn't require you to use new engineering or architectural models there is plenty of literature to draw from (we even wrote an EJB book back in 2002 that used EJB 2.0 with a JSP front end, using patterns such as Session Facade).

Now of course you can choose what you'd like for your persistence layer, use Java as you need, and use JavaFX for the GUI. JavaFX fits nicely into accepted models for building commercial robust applications. And you can leverage your Java knowledge. In that respect, JavaFX fits into a very mature model.

But, yes, JavaFX is still pretty new. And exciting.

Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gail Anderson wrote:I'm betting that you will see more examples. But, since JavaFX doesn't require you to use new engineering or architectural models there is plenty of literature to draw from (we even wrote an EJB book back in 2002 that used EJB 2.0 with a JSP front end, using patterns such as Session Facade).

Now of course you can choose what you'd like for your persistence layer, use Java as you need, and use JavaFX for the GUI. JavaFX fits nicely into accepted models for building commercial robust applications. And you can leverage your Java knowledge. In that respect, JavaFX fits into a very mature model.

But, yes, JavaFX is still pretty new. And exciting.



But shouldnt someone write a book which actually teaches us to create such commercial robust applications from the ground up.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Gail Anderson wrote:I'm betting that you will see more examples. But, since JavaFX doesn't require you to use new engineering or architectural models there is plenty of literature to draw from (we even wrote an EJB book back in 2002 that used EJB 2.0 with a JSP front end, using patterns such as Session Facade).

Now of course you can choose what you'd like for your persistence layer, use Java as you need, and use JavaFX for the GUI. JavaFX fits nicely into accepted models for building commercial robust applications. And you can leverage your Java knowledge. In that respect, JavaFX fits into a very mature model.

But, yes, JavaFX is still pretty new. And exciting.



The problem is that building web applications and building desktop applications are radically different. A statement like "JavaFX fits nicely into accepted models for building commercial robust applications." is a blank meaningless statement. What models are we talking about? I'd argue there are no accepted models for building desktop applications in the Java world. And yes, JavaFX apps are technically desktop apps. An applet is a rich platform that provides desktop like functionallity. In the web app world its simpler (that sounds odd considering the mashup of tech) because everyone pretty much knows MVC is the way to go and most frameworks provide some sort of MVC facade that is similar, even if the frameworks are quite different in methodology (SpringMVC vs Wicket, for example).

You can say that JavaFX supports MVC and that's how you should build your applications however the same thing has been said about Swing for years and yet, here we are, none the wiser on how to property structure a solid, performant Swing application. There are libraries trying to bridge the gap like Griffon and I had at one point started a project that would help define a blueprint for developing Swing applications. A lot of interest for it but we all just kind of stood around and looked at each other because we had no clue where to pull information from.

There are many books on technologies like Grails, SpringMVC, Struts/2, Tapestry. And a lot of these books walk you through building a semi-real world web application, building more as each chapter progresses. There are ZERO Swing books that do this and at this point ZERO JavaFX books that do this. My point to all this is that is what we need. And stop using Netbeans. Not everyone uses Netbeans nor do we want to. Mention it in passing, maybe devote a chapter. But don't continue to tell us to click things in Netbeans throughout the entire book (I'm not saying your book does this).

Ok, sorry for the rant here but I'm pretty passionate about this topic. I'm really tired of Sun trying to push half completed technologies on the community with no real direction to using them. EJB2.0 was an utter failure. JDO has failed, JSF (in my opinion) has failed. Sun has failed to give the community what it needs. It's taken brilliant third party community members to provide technologies and frameworks that the community is actually asking for (JPA, Grails, Wicket, etc). JavaFX just feels like more of the same to me.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61457
    
  67

Truth. The first mention of Netbeans in a book results in a slapping close of the cover and putting it back on the shelf. The hubris of telling me what IDE I should use is beyond arrogance.

Same goes for Glassfish and Maven. Just about every project lately from Sun assumes you are using these and heaven help you if you aren't.

I pass.
Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
Passion is good!

Perhaps Ibn and Gregg should collaborate on such a book!
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Is JavaFX still being developed by Sun or has Oracle taken over?
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Gail Anderson wrote:Passion is good!

Perhaps Ibn and Gregg should collaborate on such a book!


I would if I knew how to do what I was writing about. That's the root of the problem. We need folks who know how to write these books. Believe me, you don't want me to write a book.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Ibn Saeed wrote:Is JavaFX still being developed by Sun or has Oracle taken over?


Oracle has taken over nothing from Sun at this point. There's some legal issue over Java's licensing they are still trying to work out. At least, that was the last info I had read.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gail Anderson wrote:Passion is good!

Perhaps Ibn and Gregg should collaborate on such a book!


lol

I meant no disrespect.

The reason I posted my thoughts was that I have read so many books, not on Java, but different languages. Mostly, hardly ever teach to build real practical applications.

I would really like to buy a book which would teach a novice from the ground up. I think the book would be huge in terms of chapters, but it could be done in steps per edition.

Every other book, teaches the basics of each and every language, but hardly any book goes into the details of using those basics and building upon them to create more practical applications.

Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gregg Bolinger wrote:
Gail Anderson wrote:Passion is good!

Perhaps Ibn and Gregg should collaborate on such a book!


I would if I knew how to do what I was writing about. That's the root of the problem. We need folks who know how to write these books. Believe me, you don't want me to write a book.


I agree with Gregg. We need authors who are experienced not only in authoring books but also involved developing pratical applications. We need Teachers, to teach us like students.

Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
For e.g. take a look at this book

http://www.apress.com/book/view/9781590590829

Real World .NET Applications

Real World .NET Applications consists of six significant .NET applications, each representing one of the major application types: a custom Windows control, an XML document editor, a Pac-Man–style game, a drawing application, an FTP client application, and an ASP.NET online store. Each application or component is thoroughly documented, starting from coverage of the underlying principles through the architecture and design, and finally the actual implementation of the application.

With Real World .NET Applications by your side, you can get started right away developing necessary applications!



This is what I am looking for. Someone to teach us to build something useful.

Gail Anderson, Is this a practial idea for a JavaFX book ? Do you agree ?

Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
I really think Ms Pac-Man would have been a better example.
Michael Dunn
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Posts: 4632
> This is what I am looking for. Someone to teach us to build something useful.

Most of java's Swing classes are customizable, and 'something useful' would use classes heavily customized.
you can't teach customization, because often there are numerous different ways to customize something.
you might do something one way, I'd probably do it another way - both ending up the same, so customization
is basically an individual thing.

Reading a step-by-step book on playing a violin will not make you a violin player.

learn the basics then practice, practice, practice
William Antônio Siqueira
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 08, 2009
Posts: 36
Hi,
I already use Flash in my aplications and I think JavaFX better cause is Java.
Java lacked a rich interface technology, JavaFX brought this.
And we can not forget the JavaFX Mobile

Ok, the real world.
Consider a dynamic chart, where data of a company were shown in a rich interface.
Think of an application more visually pleasing in purely business systems!

And JavaFX allow you to migrate some existing systems! Look this: http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javafx/mobilefx-me/





The answer isn't "Why", is "How"!
Follow me on Twitter - Speak portuguese? Check out JavaFree.org
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Michael Dunn wrote:> This is what I am looking for. Someone to teach us to build something useful.

Most of java's Swing classes are customizable, and 'something useful' would use classes heavily customized.
you can't teach customization, because often there are numerous different ways to customize something.
you might do something one way, I'd probably do it another way - both ending up the same, so customization
is basically an individual thing.

Reading a step-by-step book on playing a violin will not make you a violin player.

learn the basics then practice, practice, practice


I respecfully disagree with the above approach.

It it due to this very approach that PHP has tons of books for beginners. Each year, a new book comes out for beginners. Why cant the beginners make the jump to the next level.

They are stuck, because they have been taught in parts, which are seperate. Then we see more and more novices going to forums for help on simple issues. Buying more beginners books.

I am of the opinion that a novice should atleast be taught one way of doing things (customizing), let it be the way of the author. If it gets a novice to learn and build a full functional practical application which could be used in real life and which could be extended on afterwards. So what if the beginner is introduced to only one way. Why do we have to confuse the beginners.

Once, the foundations have been laid, then its upto the same person either to keep on using the way of customization he had learnt from the book or change it by reading advance books. Since by then, he would be quite ingrained with the basics.

Michael Dunn
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Posts: 4632
> Once, the foundations have been laid, then its upto the same person either to keep on using the way of customization he had learnt from the book
> or change it by reading advance books. Since by then, he would be quite ingrained with the basics.

the huge problem with the above is the generalization of 'customization'.

let's say there was a book that taught you a real world application JTable and database.
this doesn't mean you would immediately know how to customize a JSpinner or a JFileChooser or a JComboBox etc.,
unless you expect there to be books teaching real world applications for each of Swing's components,
or perhaps a single book doing the lot - which would be about 10,000 pages.

it just doesn't work that way.

learn the basics
come up with an idea on what you want to do with each component
research via google etc
ask questions on forums
write bucketloads of code

I consider this to be the best link for Swing, having the basics of most of Swing

http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/uiswing/TOC.html

Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Michael, I understand what you are saying. However, I think you're possibly missing what I/we want. Creating Swing applications isn't always about customizing everything. It's about knowing the best way to do X,Y, and Z in given situations. With each Swing component there are 5+ ways to do the same things; wiring up events, populating models, adding/removing, etc.

I know how to use a JButton and if I need to customize it, I'll go look that up. Think of the bigger picture here though. Localization, resource loading, menu's, binding, all these things that books aren't teaching us. We don't need a Swing how to. We need an infrastructure guide. Or we need a really good framework that takes care of all that and a good book on how to use that framework.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

And let me add that this is also what I desire from JavaFX. Show me the best way to architect a (semi) real world application from knowing how to structure the javafx code, to when to utilize custom Nodes, to talking to a back end. The books I've seen to date show me how to do some of each one of those but it's totally disconnected. There's too much "you figure it out from here". This is especially important with new technologies as to prevent bad behavior. Look how much bad Swing code is out there. If we'd had a good blueprint early on, things might be better at this point. If we don't have a solid blueprint for JavaFX, the same thing will happen.
Michael Dunn
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 09, 2003
Posts: 4632
> We need an infrastructure guide. Or we need a really good framework that takes care of all that and a good book on how to use that framework.

Interesting angle, hadn't thought about it that way.

You have your 'coverall' book, Code Complete (I think Fowler has one too), and for Swing, Marinilli's book is OK,
perhaps something in between might be worthwhile.
(still thinking whether I'd buy one, given the info freely available - but at times hard to find)
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
For me , the author of Real World. net app, said it best.

Each application is thoroughly documented, starting from coverage of the underlying principles through the architecture and design, and finally the actual implementation of the application.


1). Teach us the initial aspects of design, what we want to achieve.
2). How to achieve those by explaining each detail
3). How to manage the project by using Version Control etc.
4). How to implement them for the final application

Take a route in JavaFX to build a FTP Application or an Simple Accounting Application or an IDE (or a Text Editor), Frontend Desktop Application for an online Webstore, a web browser or a pdf reader/editor, or a video player etc.

Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Hello

I think these are the steps which should be followed by any author writing a book on javaFX.

Life of Real Application:

1). Analysis
We should learn how to define an idea and identify the major components required.


2). Design
Here we should be taught how to fit the major components together to create the final idea or a blueprint, then to design those individual components and finally create their specifications.


3). Development
Here we should be taught how to take the individual components and create each individual components.


4). Testing

5). Implementation

6). Maintenance

7). End of Life


Gail Anderson
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 07, 2009
Posts: 44
Hi Ibn,

I respectively disagree. While the book you describe is indeed useful, the book I want when learning JavaFX shows me how to use JavaFX. The book you describe is a big picture book and many portions have nothing to do with JavaFX in particular, but have to do with software engineering and architecture. These, of course, are important but belong in a different book.

For example, in designing an online store you must decide on your persistence strategy. Will you use Hibernate, jdbc/database, ejb? Any /all of these strategies can be used with JavaFX, your front end.

If you include "learning JavaFX" with these topics, your book will be 1,000 pages. (I personally don't like 1,000-page books.)

I don't know about you, but when I'm learning a new language, I appreciate the work the author has done to build the examples and explain the language features used. A previous poster said, "I can learn everything about the language using Google and scouring the internet." Maybe. But it will take you 3-4 times as long.

For example. Let's say you want to write a game in JavaFX. You will need animation. Looking up the APIs you see that JavaFX implements animation with the Timeline class. Oh, and there's also Transitions: TranslateTransition, ScaleTransition, RotateTransition, FadeTransition, PathTransition, PauseTransition. There's compound transitions too: ParallelTransition and SequentialTransition. Okay, time to study these APIs.

In our chapter on Animation, we talk about all of this. And it turns out that you use Timeline for periodic updates, the kind you would use in a game situation (have I collided with something yet?).

When writing a book, the Table of Contents is a collaborative effort with the acquisitions editor, the authors, other technical parties, perhaps engineers involved with the topic. Our goal was targeting programmers who want to learn JavaFX. We don't assume Java or Swing experience. (Indeed I have found that people without extensive Java knowledge accept the JavaFX programming paradigm more rapidly. Some Java programmers find the scene graph metaphor different.)

One final point. Not every piece of software is an elaborate system. Some are "just widgets." One of our examples shows a flickr-based slideshow (an animated carousel). It uses JavaFX support for web services and pull parsers (to parse either XML or JSON). This is not a large example (thanks to JavaFX) but it is hugely useful (and fun). You can embed it in a web page and show your own (or others') flickr photographs.

In summary, the book you describe is very useful. But, that's not the book I would want to learn JavaFX. Just my opinion.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gail Anderson wrote:Hi Ibn,

I respectively disagree. While the book you describe is indeed useful, the book I want when learning JavaFX shows me how to use JavaFX. The book you describe is a big picture book and many portions have nothing to do with JavaFX in particular, but have to do with software engineering and architecture. These, of course, are important but belong in a different book.

For example, in designing an online store you must decide on your persistence strategy. Will you use Hibernate, jdbc/database, ejb? Any /all of these strategies can be used with JavaFX, your front end.

If you include "learning JavaFX" with these topics, your book will be 1,000 pages. (I personally don't like 1,000-page books.)

I don't know about you, but when I'm learning a new language, I appreciate the work the author has done to build the examples and explain the language features used. A previous poster said, "I can learn everything about the language using Google and scouring the internet." Maybe. But it will take you 3-4 times as long.

For example. Let's say you want to write a game in JavaFX. You will need animation. Looking up the APIs you see that JavaFX implements animation with the Timeline class. Oh, and there's also Transitions: TranslateTransition, ScaleTransition, RotateTransition, FadeTransition, PathTransition, PauseTransition. There's compound transitions too: ParallelTransition and SequentialTransition. Okay, time to study these APIs.

In our chapter on Animation, we talk about all of this. And it turns out that you use Timeline for periodic updates, the kind you would use in a game situation (have I collided with something yet?).

When writing a book, the Table of Contents is a collaborative effort with the acquisitions editor, the authors, other technical parties, perhaps engineers involved with the topic. Our goal was targeting programmers who want to learn JavaFX. We don't assume Java or Swing experience. (Indeed I have found that people without extensive Java knowledge accept the JavaFX programming paradigm more rapidly. Some Java programmers find the scene graph metaphor different.)

One final point. Not every piece of software is an elaborate system. Some are "just widgets." One of our examples shows a flickr-based slideshow (an animated carousel). It uses JavaFX support for web services and pull parsers (to parse either XML or JSON). This is not a large example (thanks to JavaFX) but it is hugely useful (and fun). You can embed it in a web page and show your own (or others') flickr photographs.


n summary, the book you describe is very useful. But, that's not the book I would want to learn JavaFX. Just my opinion.



Thank you for taking time out for replying to me post. But i am looking for a book which would do just that, provide a detailed explanation and takes you from the start to the finish, at the end having a full practical application.

I would like to ask if your book teaches to build a complete application from the ground up or is it just small examples of widgets.

If it just teaches us to develop widgets, are'nt there tutorials on the net which do just that. Why should I buy the book ?

Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

I can understand what Gail is saying. A large book like that would require the author to make some architectural decisions that not everyone would be happy with. Like she said, which persistence strategy would you use. If they author decided to use iBatis instead of your choice of JPA/Hibernate, would you like the book? It's a huge risk and I myself would not want a book like that either.

But I think there can be a good compromise. A lot of the aspects of the application that aren't JavaFX specific can be briefly discussed (a page or 2) with decisions that need to be made. But I do think that a book that develops a (semi) real world JavaFX application from start to finish is a good idea. That's not to say books that show many smaller examples are wrong. I believe those are useful as well. Those are the books you read first. The book with the complete example should assume the reader is somewhat familiar with the basics of JavaFX.

Books today always assume the reader knows nothing about the technology being discussed. And every book includes a little bit of something the other books don't have. That's fine. But we need a book for the next level.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61457
    
  67

Gregg Bolinger wrote: But we need a book for the next level.

Such books can be a hard-sell to publishers.

I've been trying to get a "JSP, the Next Generation" book going for ages, but no one seems interested in such "next level" books. The general consensus seems to be "everything that needs to be written about creating JSP apps has already been written". A quick glance at the JSP forum proves it ain't so.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Bear Bibeault wrote:
Gregg Bolinger wrote: But we need a book for the next level.

Such books can be a hard-sell to publishers.


This is very sad situation.

We have get thousands of beginner books each year, on the same subject. and people just keep buying them, even the seasoned programmers.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gregg Bolinger wrote: But we need a book for the next level.


I just visited you Blog. Found this:

My First Attempt at JavaFX
http://www.greggbolinger.com/blog/2008/12/09/1228885320000.html

You mentioned
JavaFX isn't ready for enterprise level RIAs.There are too many missing pieces, too many missing components, and of course, no real linux support yet.



Wanted to know if you changed you opinion by now or not ?
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

I still don't think it is ready. It's better. But not quite where it needs to be. It needs wider IDE adoption. It needs a flippin Data Grid. And unfortunately, it is still pretty much an applet. I have the latest JRE on my mac, on my PC, and on a Linux box. Applets still load too slow for a good user experience. This isn't JavaFX's fault directly, but this needs to be fixed before JavaFX can really be successful, IMHO.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gregg Bolinger wrote:I still don't think it is ready. It's better. But not quite where it needs to be. It needs wider IDE adoption. It needs a flippin Data Grid. And unfortunately, it is still pretty much an applet. I have the latest JRE on my mac, on my PC, and on a Linux box. Applets still load too slow for a good user experience. This isn't JavaFX's fault directly, but this needs to be fixed before JavaFX can really be successful, IMHO.


Can I download your game, I would like to test it out and check its speed as well.
Ibn Saeed
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 17, 2009
Posts: 45
Gregg Bolinger wrote: Applets still load too slow for a good user experience.


As far as Applets, go i am not a fan of it and its due to the fact of slow speed.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Yea, you can download it. It's not that applets run slow, it's that they load slow. And when they fail, unless you know what you are doing, you have no way to know why. Half the time, when they fail to load, you're still sitting there waiting for them to load, because the screen is the same.
 
wood burning stoves
 
subject: Essential JavaFX: Why No Real RIA?