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smoking ban at public places in India

Muse Ran
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Joined: Sep 17, 2008
Posts: 316
A bad news for cigarettes smokers in India. Government of India has decided to ban smoking in in all public places from 2nd October, Gandhi Jayanti. Now you can�t smoke in hotels, restaurants, offices, public gatherings etc. Moreover, if you get caught while smoking, then a fine of Rs 200 would be imposed. The health ministry has also plans to increase the fine to Rs 1000 after some time. Even if the employer will be fined if their employees are found smoking inside office premises. Smokers will also be fined for lighting up their cigarettes in even pubs, bars and discotheques. Union Minister for Health and Family Welfare, Dr. Anbumani Ramadoss is the brain behind all these new measures. He has already banned smoking in India movies.

is it good or bad ?


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Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  30

It's good. Smoking is a ridiculous habit: it pollutes, it creates litter, it wastes time, it puts an enormous strain on the health-care system and -- oh yes, by the way -- it kills people. Reasonable folks shouldn't be exposed to noxious fumes just because some moron wants to walk around with burning trash hanging out of his piehole (and I get to say all this because I wised up and quit 20 years ago.)

But isn't 200 rupees like five dollars? A pack of cigarettes actually costs somewhat more than that here in the US; that fine doesn't sound like much of a deterrent. The fine for violating a no-smoking zone over here is closer to 200 dollars, and people still risk it.


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Ravikanth kolli
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Joined: Feb 10, 2008
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well.. that is true , but the point is that most of the middle class smokers are the one who usually smoke at these places and thus Rs. 200 is not a small amount for these guys. and also the most important things in US the government sets up a rules all of them do follow it, but back there in india, even with a small move by the gov, people start dharnas, strikes and all kinds of nonsense..
[ October 02, 2008: Message edited by: Ravikanth kolli ]

-kolli
Gregg Bolinger
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    6

I agree with EFH and I too can say because I quit smoking 9 or so years ago. Filthy filthy habit. My Aunt is dying of cancer because her husband won't quit smoking.

Smoking should be illegal, period, IMHO. That won't happen in my lifetime for sure.

(seems like we had a similar discussion a long time ago when this happened to some cities in the US)


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Deepak Bala
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Joined: Feb 24, 2006
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    5

Smoking should be illegal, period, IMHO. That won't happen in my lifetime for sure.


Yep. Yep.

Then again, my confidence that this will not be implemented is running very high. If people are to take this seriously they should really be fined when they smoke out in the open. Instead of being fined officially the cop would probably take a bribe under the covers (whose value would obviously be lower than the actual fine) and let the perp off.

Its a nice law to have but the willingness to implement it will just not be there. I would however love for my prejudice to be wronged.


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Arvind Mahendra
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Joined: Jul 14, 2007
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second hand smoking should definitely be banned. Even though I'm a smoker myself I can't stand the smell of second hand smoke and I know its hurting me more than if I was the one lighting up.


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Paul Sturrock
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Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 10336

The smoking ban here in Scotland has worked wonders. Welcome it!


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Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  30

Originally posted by Deepak Bala:
Instead of being fined officially the cop would probably take a bribe under the covers (whose value would obviously be lower than the actual fine) and let the perp off.


Ummm.... yeah. Well, if that's the case where you live, I recommend you get to work on that problem first.
[ October 02, 2008: Message edited by: Ernest Friedman-Hill ]
marc weber
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If someone walked into a public place and started releasing (any other) poisonous gas, they would be arrested and charged with a variety of felony offenses.


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Arvind Mahendra
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Joined: Jul 14, 2007
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Originally posted by marc weber:
If someone walked into a public place and started releasing (any other) poisonous gas, they would be arrested and charged with a variety of felony offenses.
Abhinav Srivastava
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Joined: Nov 19, 2002
Posts: 349

Originally posted by Deepak Bala:

Instead of being fined officially the cop would probably take a bribe under the covers (whose value would obviously be lower than the actual fine) and let the perp off.

The bribe will be lower than Rs 200 but sure higher than the cost of a cigarette. That could in intself act as a deterrent. All we need are cops who won't let anyone caught smoking go without paying a bribe first.
Sri Anand
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Joined: Mar 06, 2005
Posts: 392
Smoking ban by itself is a good law thats passed, Implementation will definately have hurdles.

Media has been highlighting serveral corruption cases , people are boldly taking help from media when they are encountering situations involving corruption definately there is improvement


if you are caught by cop and were asked bribe instead of fine, make sure you inform about him, definately Media will spy and catch him red handed to make sensational local news
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  30

Originally posted by Abhinav Srivastava:

The bribe will be lower than Rs 200 but sure higher than the cost of a cigarette. That could in intself act as a deterrent. All we need are cops who won't let anyone caught smoking go without paying a bribe first.


Are there really policemen in your country who would compromise their integrity for basically nothing? It's one thing if a desparate man is tempted by a large bribe, but to accept a pittance like that, it's literally incomprehensible to me. Is there no concept of honor?
Satish Chilukuri
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Joined: Jun 23, 2005
Posts: 266
Originally posted by Ernest Friedman-Hill:

Are there really policemen in your country who would compromise their integrity for basically nothing? It's one thing if a desparate man is tempted by a large bribe, but to accept a pittance like that, it's literally incomprehensible to me. Is there no concept of honor?


Bribery is something which has existed in India in one form or the other for the past few centuries. It can even be said that it is a part of Indian culture . It may be surprising to you that a policeman would give up his honour for a bribe of few tens of rupees, but the situation is the exact opposite here. When you are in the Government services, you are expected to take bribes. Otherwise people will see you as a loser, a person who doesn't know how to live with the current times. Also there's a bit of a circular logic involved as well. You have to pay enormous bribes to get a government job and the only way to recoup those "expenses" is to take bribes.

Also a few rupees is not exactly a pittance. Small amounts from a large no. of people make up a considerable amounts. And he has to offer kickbacks to his superiors as well. So any amount is a good amount.
[ October 02, 2008: Message edited by: Satish Chilukuri ]
Ramesh Srinivasan
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Joined: Aug 17, 2008
Posts: 35
Originally posted by Satish Chilukuri:


You have to pay enormous bribes to get a government job and the only way to recoup those "expenses" is to take bribes.



[ October 02, 2008: Message edited by: Satish Chilukuri ]


It is because of people used to give the bribes to obtain the Government Jobs.

Some one is there to 'OFFER' the deal continues..
[ October 02, 2008: Message edited by: Ramesh Srinivasan ]

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Rambo Prasad
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Joined: Feb 23, 2006
Posts: 628
if you are caught by cop and were asked bribe instead of fine, make sure you inform about him, definately Media will spy and catch him red handed to make sensational local news


I don't think this will have an effect..This bribery culture has been going on for a long time so media might not find anything unusual in it and will simply shrug off from reporting such things...

For instance,the practice of bribing traffic police has been rampant and is done quite openly in many places..What was the media able to do about it..?


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R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5370
Originally posted by Gregg Bolinger:
My Aunt is dying of cancer because her husband won't quit smoking.


Anti-smokers have generally two statements to make.
1) You will die.
2) I will die.

As far as first statement, person is mature enough to decide what he should do with his life.

For second reason, which is also branded as "Second hand smoke", I do agree that public places should be banned for smoking. (Personally I dont believe in "second hand smoke" (even I dont believe in first hand) , but that is my belief).

But the way it is being implemented in India is wrong. Without providing smoking zones in public places you should have imposed the rule. It is like shifting to new home without electricity and water.

I feel that first Govt. should have imposed rule that all public places will have smoking zone. And once you have successfully implemented it then bring the concluding rule/law that Smoking is banned in public places.

Like in Europe, Railway Stations are smoke free, but there are zones for smokers.


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Ulf Dittmer
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Joined: Mar 22, 2005
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  27

Anti-smokers have generally two statements to make.
1) You will die.
...
As far as first statement, person is mature enough to decide what he should do with his life.

Leaving aside the fact that I for one routinely doubt the maturity of various people I encounter, this still leaves the many effects a person dying prematurely from cancer has on people around him/her (like the family and friends) and on society (health costs being borne effectively by other people). There's nothing mature about ignoring either.


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Eugene Abarquez
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Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 211
Originally posted by R K Singh:

For second reason, which is also branded as "Second hand smoke", I do agree that public places should be banned for smoking. (Personally I dont believe in "second hand smoke" (even I dont believe in first hand) , but that is my belief).


Second hand smoke is a proven fact. Google it. I guess people are always in denial of their own addiction, until they are faced with the facts.

My concern though is, for the many of us who doesn�t enjoy filling our lungs with toxic fumes, don�t include us.

Although I don�t believe that banning smoking in public places would help counteract this addiction. It will just leave a lot of people frustrated. I say, put up areas where people can smoke and fine those who are caught smoking in non-smoking areas.

Give them a sty to submerge in their own sh*t, so to speak.


There's so much to learn in this industry, and not everybody has the necessary interest.
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6657
    
    5

The bribe will be lower than Rs 200 but sure higher than the cost of a cigarette.


Oh I forgot to mention. Sometimes the bribe is the cigarette itself

Is there no concept of honor?


Bribing / corruption is an everyday event here.
Arvind Mahendra
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Joined: Jul 14, 2007
Posts: 1162
Culture is definitely right when talking about corruption. Which is probably why the west is all set for imminent doom by not compelling immigrants to assimilate into the ways of west, embrace the prevailing religions and renounce their culture which was the root of their very misery in their native lands. Its odd how you people celebrate diversity and welcome the same kind of ideas and values which have been so deeply ingrained in the people who come to your shores which will inevitably dissolve whatever values that defined the West. Its almost as if there is a suicide gene lose within your tribe.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5370
Originally posted by Eugene Abarquez:
I say, put up areas where people can smoke and fine those who are caught smoking in non-smoking areas.


thats all I want to say.

Comments on second hand smoke's reality is something I would prefer to avoid as you cant change someone's belief.

Proof of danger with smoke are only statistics and I believe that stats are used/changed as per one's own view.
R K Singh
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Joined: Oct 15, 2001
Posts: 5370
Originally posted by Ulf Dittmer:

Leaving aside the fact that I for one routinely doubt the maturity of various people I encounter


One need not be a smoker to show his maturity level
Paul Sturrock
Bartender

Joined: Apr 14, 2004
Posts: 10336


Proof of danger with smoke are only statistics and I believe that stats are used/changed as per one's own view.

I think you may be confusing statistics, which as you correctly say can be interpreted or manipulated to prove a point (Darrell Huff's excellent book How To Lie With Statistics is a great study of this) with controlled scientific studies, which are harder to manipulate.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1871
Its difficult to enforce.Imagine this with crossing the railway track.Its illegal but still thousands cross each day on many stations.Railway officials don't care as they know lawbreaker himself is going to be hurt and die!.


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Eugene Abarquez
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Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 211
Originally posted by R K Singh:

Comments on second hand smoke's reality is something I would prefer to avoid as you cant change someone's belief.

Proof of danger with smoke are only statistics and I believe that stats are used/changed as per one's own view.


Yes this is not reality. We are living in the Matrix.
Ashok Mash
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Joined: Oct 13, 2000
Posts: 1936
Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Its difficult to enforce.Imagine this with crossing the railway track.Its illegal but still thousands cross each day on many stations.Railway officials don't care as they know lawbreaker himself is going to be hurt and die!.


Hardly fair to compare lack of footbridges or control of housing by the tracks that takes a lot more time and resources to an annoying habit of some people that they brought upon themselves out of their own choice.

Agree with you that its very difficult to enforce, and even when enforced people will find their own definitions to public places, and whats allowed and whats not etc. However, for those want to protest, now has some support from the law, even if that doesn't mean much in certain parts of the country.
[ October 03, 2008: Message edited by: Ashok Mash ]

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Jeanne Boyarsky
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Joined: May 26, 2003
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139

Originally posted by Ravikanth kolli:
people start dharnas, strikes and all kinds of nonsense..

Is this definition of dharnas accurate? I was trying to look up what it means, but virtually all the references I find just use it in context.

Now you can�t smoke in hotels, restaurants, offices, public gatherings etc.

I remember when my city passed a ban on smoking in bars. People cried the bars would go out of business. Over time, people got used to going outside to smoke and it was fine. This summer I went to an outdoor bar where people could smoke. I've gotten so used to the air in bars being clean that I was surprised. (The people I went with were good about not smoking right next to me, so it wasn't bad.)


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Sri Anand
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are there really policemen in your country who would compromise their integrity for basically nothing? It's one thing if a desparate man is tempted by a large bribe, but to accept a pittance like that, it's literally incomprehensible to me. Is there no concept of honor?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Above said there are certain factors contributing to it,

The lowest Grade in Police detpartment is Constable The pay grade for this poor guys is 4000 - 6000 Rs per month in most of indian states and 4000- 9000 Rs per month in some 4000 Rs = $100 approximately


The above grade police man is given a bicycle for commuting and a stick to protect himself (please note he has no modern weapons or equipment to communicate where he is)

He is field level policemen who patrols during night times and supposed to collect intelligence He is some one who needs to control traffic sometimes manually at cross roads

some are equiped with age old manual rifles and is most of times on Centry duty Recently Prime minister of India commented that this guy is most important in collecting intelligence against terrorism,

of course these guys have contributed to solving cases on regular basis

Above said due to think its compromise taking bribes ? even with out taking bribes do you see any self respect for the kind of pay and life they get for risking their lives admist anti social elements I dont really meant to support bribe but these are established facts this is way current system works and some of the ills are effects
[ October 03, 2008: Message edited by: Raghunandan Mamidala ]
Sri Anand
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Joined: Mar 06, 2005
Posts: 392
For instance,the practice of bribing traffic police has been rampant and is done quite openly in many places..What was the media able to do about it..?


Media has been definately highlighting the bribery cases by showign them in their channels at least i know when i went to muncipality i definatley saw the change in attitude due to fear
[ October 03, 2008: Message edited by: Raghunandan Mamidala ]
Jules Bach
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Joined: Apr 28, 2008
Posts: 71
The world is a better place without having to put up with second hand cigarette smoke (by "put up with" i mean developing environmentally based cancers through absolutely no fault of your own).

The opportunity cost of such bans, is that smokers are restricted as to where they can poison themselves.

There are no economic disadvantages in these bans (bar's will not go out of business). Billions saved in healthcare. A smoking ban will have no effect on the deep causes of police corruption.

It's a no brainer.

Jules
(aka self righteous ex-smoker)
[ October 03, 2008: Message edited by: Jules Bach ]
David O'Meara
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Posts: 13459

We ex-smokers are the worst kind (insert evil grin)
Vikrant Pandit
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Joined: Mar 27, 2006
Posts: 245
Originally posted by Jeanne Boyarsky:
Is this definition of dharnas accurate?

This definition portrays that a dharna is a non violent procession. This was true when Mahatma Gandhi used it for freedom struggle . Now a days it more of slogan shouting and more often than not it turns into a law and order problem.

Back to the smoking ban . Some folks are taking it seriously. We today received a company wide email saying that smoking has been banned in the premises and people have to step out on the streets to smoke.


Vikrant Pandit
Jeanne Boyarsky
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139

Originally posted by Vivek Pandey:
Now a days it more of slogan shouting and more often than not it turns into a law and order problem.

Thanks.


Back to the smoking ban .

Sorry for the tangent. I was trying to learn a new word...



We today received a company wide email saying that smoking has been banned in the premises and people have to step out on the streets to smoke.

I wonder in 5 years whether people will get used to it and accept it as fact. We've had bans on smoking in office buildings for as far back as I can remember here.
Arjun Shastry
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Joined: Mar 13, 2003
Posts: 1871
Imposing heavy tax could also deter people from smoking.Other than smoking,drugs/cokaine usage is rampant in Indian cities.Cops generally take hefty bribes before releasing the culprits.

Rave party
Rajkamal Pillai
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Joined: Mar 02, 2005
Posts: 443
    
    1

Hi,

I fail to see the logic behind the ban on smoking.

IMHO smoking is the act of lighting up and taking a drag on a cigarette. Now lets analyze the motive behind this. It could be so that others are not affected by the bad habit (I am sure those who smoke must be very well aware of the harmful effects). Another reason could be environmental? I am not able to frame better reasons. Well in that case why do they ban smoking? Wouldn't a total ban of cigarettes been a more feasible solution?

Think about the benefit a ban on cigarette would provide. It would remove all the public/private smoking issues as well as all other health hazards and stuff. It should be pretty easy for a government to impose a ban on cigarettes? But what would it stand to loose by such an action? Revenue?

So it boils down to the government still wanting the revenue so its more than evident that the motive is not in honest interests. Asimilar situation would be allowing the sales of vehicles but imposing a ban on driving them! After all it is a well known fact that a far greater number of people die to road mishaps compared to the effect of smoke.

And yes I do support the ban on smoking (even though I do smoke) but my humble request is that the government should also impose a ban on driving (reasons mentioned above).

What say Ranchers?

Cheers,
Raj.
Pradeep bhatt
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Joined: Feb 27, 2002
Posts: 8898

Originally posted by Arjun Shastry:
Imposing heavy tax could also deter people from smoking.Other than smoking,drugs/cokaine usage is rampant in Indian cities.Cops generally take hefty bribes before releasing the culprits.

Rave party


I thought you were caught in that party.


Groovy
Pradeep bhatt
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Posts: 8898

Why are they hiding their faces
Rambo Prasad
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After smoking ban next in line is alcohol ban...

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/ramadoss-trains-guns-on-alcohol-in-public-places/75662-3.html
Pradeep bhatt
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There are some good things to talk about health minister after AIIMS mis handlings.
 
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