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Avoiding Frameworks when learning JSP

martin rolph
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: 9
I've been learning JSP development for a few weeks now using Wrox Press's "Begining JSP Development". Most of the book I think is really good, and easy to understand but the one query I have is that about a third of the book is how to build web-apps using the Struts framework. This is sort of ok as it makes building the sample apps easier but I get the gut feeling that by learning how to use a framework it is 'hiding' me from the nuts and bolts of how JSP architecture should be/and work.
Anyway I guess what I am trying to say is that do you think Newbie's to JSP should learn how to do things without Frameworks first? I personally don't like using code that I don't understand or couldn't write myself!
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I agree that you should learn to walk before you run. Avoid the frameworks until you feel you have a good idea of how JSP works, and how JSPs and servlets interact with each other. Once you get into a production environment however, there is a very good chance you will use some type of framework, probably struts.
Matthew Phillips
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 09, 2001
Posts: 2676
I agree with Jason, but I don't think that the book including a chapter on struts is a bad idea. It certainly won't hurt you to have an introduction to the subject because it is becoming required knowledge in the field.


Matthew Phillips
martin rolph
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 16, 2002
Posts: 9
thanks for the replies, its kind of what I thought. I've decided to compromise slightly and try to create my own MVC architecture without using Struts (so learn about dealing with requests and forwarding myself) but use Struts for more complicated things like connection pooling.
I'm nearly the stage now where I can build web-apps for my company (albeit simple ones!), and I'm wondering if the majority of people in the real world use Struts for corporate sites? (on a small scale as I asume for enterprise solutions people would create their own frameworks).
daryl olson
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 15, 2000
Posts: 36
Struts is extremely popular in the corporate world and with good reason; it does what it suppose to do. If you are going to write you own framework to learn about JSP's, I'd say spend your time on other area's (Struts, taglibs and JSTL, XSLT). The bottom line is that Struts does the job for the MVC and you'll probably end up using it so why not learn some things that will give you more bang for the buck. Just my opinion.
Jason Menard
Sheriff

Joined: Nov 09, 2000
Posts: 6450
I'm wondering if the majority of people in the real world use Struts for corporate sites?
We just did our first project in Struts. It was a good sized project so we kind of jumped in head first. We have decided that we will continue to go with Struts on future products. I'm scheduled to give a brownbag talk on Struts next month, at management's request. So I guess I would say that from my perspective at least, the corporate world is embracing Struts.
on a small scale as I asume for enterprise solutions people would create their own frameworks
Why spend the time creating and maintaining your own framework if there are perfectly suitable ones out there?
[ August 27, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Menard ]
Tim Holloway
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Posts: 15632
    
  15

For LEARNING JSPs and servets, avoid the frameworks. But once you start working on a serious web application, you're really better off working with a well-developed discipline than trying to re-invent the wheel.
Struts is very much in demand locally in the business world. Pity that hasn't translated into a lucrative job offer for a deserving Struts-knowledgeable individual


Customer surveys are for companies who didn't pay proper attention to begin with.
 
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