wood burning stoves*
The moose likes Meaningless Drivel and the fly likes S90 or G11 ? Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Other » Meaningless Drivel
Bookmark "S90 or G11 ?" Watch "S90 or G11 ?" New topic
Author

S90 or G11 ?

Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
?


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14273
    
  21

You're talking about this...

Looking at the specs here: S90, G11, those two seem to be very similar - both 10 MP, same size sensor (maybe they even have the exact same sensor?), the G11 is able to zoom in a little further, the S90 has a slightly larger aperture (f/2.0 vs f/2.8), the S90 is lighter, the G11 has RAW mode and I'm not sure about the S90, the LCD screen of the S90 is slightly larger (3" vs 2.8").

They are very much alike, I think that in practice you won't notice a big difference between these two.


Java Beginners FAQ - JavaRanch SCJP FAQ - The Java Tutorial - Java SE 8 API documentation
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
Jesper, you are correct

So the S90's f2.0 will presumably give you more low-light and depth-of-field capabilities, and the G11 gives you more zoom - I want both

I'm kind of waiting to see how their respective image qualities compare - for instance do their lenses match up?

I'm also wondering what other compact cameras might compare to these: gotta have RAW, at least 4x zoom, manual control, AND easily fit in a pocket. What I've noticed over the last few years is that Kathy's awesome digital SLR gets left behind because it's so bulky - my A700 has served me well, but it might be time to embrace some newer technology.

Anyone have any favorite contenders?
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Anyone have any favorite contenders?


My wife only uses SLRs. I, however, like the convenience of a camera that fits in my pocket.

My current favorite is the Panasonic Lumix Z5. It has a Leica lens, with a 10x optical zoom, giving it a range of 28 to 280. My wife has to switch between her wide angle and telephoto to get that range. On top of that, it has a macro capability, which my wife's camera can't do (apparently, the Z7 is already out is Japan, and I can't wait to see the specs for that).

On the down side, for what you looking for, it is only a 9MP (which is fine for me). It doesn't have a low f stop, because the lens has a small aperture. And while it is loaded with a ridiculous number of "auto" or "smart" modes, it doesn't really have a "manual" mode.

Henry

Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Ninad Kulkarni
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 31, 2007
Posts: 797

Both models are nearly same with little difference. G11 have more zoom.


SCJP 5.0 - JavaRanch FAQ - Java Beginners FAQ - SCJP FAQ - SCJP Mock Tests - Tutorial - JavaSE7 - JavaEE6 -Generics FAQ - JLS - JVM Spec - Java FAQs - Smart Questions
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14273
    
  21

Bert Bates wrote:... gotta have RAW ...

The S90 probably doesn't have RAW mode; the specs on dpreview.com say it does have an "uncompressed format", but it doesn't say RAW mode, while the specs for the G11 specifically mention RAW mode.

Henry Wong wrote:On the down side, for what you looking for, it is only a 9MP (which is fine for me).

"Only" 9 MP ?! That's way more than enough! My mother, who's an avid photographer, has some very nice portaits printed and hanging on the wall in a very large format (maybe 1.5 by 2 foot!). The quality of those photos is great, very sharp, and she made them with her old Nikon Coolpix 8800 (8 MP).
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Jesper Young wrote:
The S90 probably doesn't have RAW mode; the specs on dpreview.com say it does have an "uncompressed format", but it doesn't say RAW mode, while the specs for the G11 specifically mention RAW mode.


Many years ago, I wrote a device driver for a digital camera (experimental model based on the Nikon N8008), and it downloaded data in the raw format of the camera. I also had to write an application that converted the format into something else, so that the tools can process it. It was a really really weird format.

I have never ever seen that format again. And I am willing to bet that cameras don't expose that format anymore.

By RAW, I am thinking that Bert is refering to the uncompressed format -- which for most cameras is the TIFF format.

Jesper Young wrote:
"Only" 9 MP ?! That's way more than enough! My mother, who's an avid photographer, has some very nice portaits printed and hanging on the wall in a very large format (maybe 1.5 by 2 foot!). The quality of those photos is great, very sharp, and she made them with her old Nikon Coolpix 8800 (8 MP).


9MP is fine for me too. One of the reasons I bought the Lumix z5, was because I really liked the previous Lumix, and that was only 7MP.... but keep in mind... Bert is looking at 10MP cameras. And furthermore, he requires a RAW format because compression loses pixels. So, I assumed that he had some hard requirements on the resolution.

Henry
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14273
    
  21

There are lots of cameras that still have a RAW format, for example my Canon EOS 5D can output *.CR2 files. Software such as Photoshop can read many of these RAW formats. The RAW formats are proprietary, each manufacturer has their own format. Most of those formats have been reverse engineered, and dcraw is the most well-known program (source code in C available) that can decode many RAW formats.

The RAW format has certain advantages - it contains the raw, (almost) unprocessed data that came off the sensor, without automatic corrections and other (possibly lossy) image processing applied. Also, the JPG format can store only 8 bits per color channel, while most modern cameras actually record 12 or 14 bits per color channel. In RAW format, you get the full 12 or 14 bits, which gives you a better dynamic range. Disadvantages of RAW are that it requires extra processing on the computer, most programs can't read RAW files directly and that the format is non-standard.

Adobe has invented DNG, which is supposed to be an open standard RAW format, but almost no camera manufacturer is using it.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Wow. I stand corrected. I just assumed that the RAW format that I encountered was just for the one camera -- because it was an experimental (unreleased) camera. I guess I need to pay more attention.

The thing that I found weird about the format, was the fact that the vertical lines were not lined up. Each rows pixels was one half pixel offset from the previous and next row. The manufacturer also required a really complex formula to readjust the colors due to effects from neighboriing colors. And the pixels were not even, some colors channels had more bits -- I believe it was RGB, but don't remember that anymore.

Henry

Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8829
    
    5
For sure there isn't just one flavor of RAW - too bad. But dynamic range is my big reason for wanting some flavor of RAW.

I'm not hung up on 10 mp as a minimum - it just happens to be what those two cameras have. I applaud the fact that Canon decided to support FEWER pixels on the G11 than on the two earlier versions, the G9 and the G10. Apparently enough folks clambered that they wanted quality pixels, not just quantity of pixels - hoo-ray!

It's not at all clear to me that the S90 and the G11 will take similar quality pix - but if they do, I think that for me the faster f-stop will beat out the slightly longer zoom range.

Really the bottom line for me is - what camera, that'll fit easily in my pocket, will take the best photos in the widest range of circumstances?
Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4659
    
    5

Bert Bates wrote:For sure there isn't just one flavor of RAW - too bad.


There is zero reason for there to be multiple propriatary flavors of RAW. Adobe's proposed format is open and suitable to be used by all. Its not like I'm going to buy a bunch of Nikon specific software to handle their silly arsed format (s/Nikon/Canon/ etc)

Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14273
    
  21

Well, for some reason, most manufacturers still think that there's a benefit in having their own proprietary RAW format. Sony even went so far at one time as to encrypt their RAW format, to prevent people from using anything else than Sony's own software to process RAW files. (And Nikon in some cameras also encrypted part of the data in their RAW files, specifically the white balance data). Sony's encrytion was eventually cracked. (In my opinion, this is typical arrogance of Sony, they really like their stuff to be proprietary, that's why they also have their own proprietary memory stick format).

See http://www.openraw.org/ - unfortunately that website seems kind of dead (last news on the front page is from 2006?!).
Bert Bates wrote:Really the bottom line for me is - what camera, that'll fit easily in my pocket, will take the best photos in the widest range of circumstances?

Since both the S90 and the G11 are very new models, I think there are not many people who can tell you yet how these two compare. Dpreview.com usually has very thorough reviews, but not (yet) for these two new cameras.
 
jQuery in Action, 2nd edition
 
subject: S90 or G11 ?