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This is my tragedy! need your help

john Decosta
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 5
Hi dear all,

I'm a 29 yrs old guy from India. Currently looking for an opportunity as Java developer.
I've completed my education(4 yrs degree of Engineering) in 7 yrs (got late by 3 yrs).
Also no 1st class throughout.

After that worked for two years as java developer.
Then recession started & I lost the job. Thus have only 2 yrs exp.

Now finding it too difficult to get the job as companies do say that according to my age I do not have that much experience & also academics are not good.

My knowledge of core java, servlets, jsps, jdbc, mvc, oops, struts & sql are excellent.
I'm flexible to work on any salary & any kind of company now.

After recession since October I started getting calls for interviews. Till now I've given 13/14 interviews. My technical rounds goes perfect but no reply comes.
It's too frustrating.

I'd like to have your true suggestions & guidance on how to overcome these issues now & get the job.
Please help guys, experienced people from India need your help & please be frank.
thank you guys.
Jeanne Boyarsky
internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30076
    
149

John,
Welcome to JavaRanch!

How do they know you are 29? In the US, resumes have year completed school and experience. The extra three years wouldn't show anywhere.

Also, learn more technologies. Do you know AJAX, libraries, messaging, any other back ends, etc.


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Maneesh Godbole
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jul 26, 2007
Posts: 10167
    
    8

John,
Welcome to the Ranch.

Consider these facts:
1) I started learning to program when I was 30 years old.
2) I am not even a graduate.
3) I was never "intelligent" or "normal" as per Indian educational standards. Hell, I scored 46% in XIIth !
3) Today, I work as a GUI architect in my current company.

Dont let your age and education gap and marks affect you. If you have the brains, you will make it to the top.

Considering the state of the economy, the companies are behaving erratically. Keep on interviewing, keep on learning from the interviews and keep yourself on your toes. I always think of interviews as an opportunity to identify what I am weak at, or what I do now know.
If you are only targeting only the so called "MNCs" its time you realized you would rather work for company, which accepts you for your talent rather your academic marks. Switch your focus to smaller companies, or better yet, startups.
I would suggest investing your time in refreshing your skills or picking up new ones. You might also want to consider joining some open source project.

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john Decosta
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 5
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:John,
Welcome to JavaRanch!

How do they know you are 29? In the US, resumes have year completed school and experience. The extra three years wouldn't show anywhere.

Also, learn more technologies. Do you know AJAX, libraries, messaging, any other back ends, etc.


thanks Jeanne!
I'm trying to learn new things.

And the birth date has to be mentioned in CV isnt it ? I've mentioned it.
If there is a way to not specify the birth date in the CV I'd like to know .
I think its required.

Thanks.
john Decosta
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 5
Maneesh Godbole wrote:John,
Welcome to the Ranch.

Consider these facts:
1) I started learning to program when I was 30 years old.
2) I am not even a graduate.
3) I was never "intelligent" or "normal" as per Indian educational standards. Hell, I scored 46% in XIIth !
3) Today, I work as a GUI architect in my current company.


excellent !! Before programming what you were doing Maneesh? I'm keen to know now. hats off to you & your efforts because I know the expectations of software companies nowadays & can guess the struggle you faced .

Maneesh Godbole wrote:Dont let your age and education gap and marks affect you. If you have the brains, you will make it to the top.


Its not me its my resume which tells .

Maneesh Godbole wrote:If you are only targeting only the so called "MNCs" its time you realized you would rather work for company, which accepts you for your talent rather your academic marks. Switch your focus to smaller companies, or better yet, startups.


I've come across an experience of the companies which are smaller and want an excellent profile for them rather than MNCs which do not think of these criteria .

Maneesh Godbole wrote:I would suggest investing your time in refreshing your skills or picking up new ones. You might also want to consider joining some open source project.

Yes!! I'm doing that & trying to improve my skills.

Finally thanks a lot for your note it gave me some hope again.

Special thanks to you.

Also what do you think of Jeanne said of birth date mentioned in CV. Can & shall I remove it?
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
Many MNCs, which follow non-indian culture, they should not have problem if you have skills to bring to table.
Indian IT companies, and their HR, they will find 100 things to reduce your salary and make you work long hours.
HR consultants, they work like machine without brain.


Sandeep
john Decosta
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 5
Sandeep Awasthi wrote:Many MNCs, which follow non-indian culture, they should not have problem if you have skills to bring to table.
Indian IT companies, and their HR, they will find 100 things to reduce your salary and make you work long hours.
HR consultants, they work like machine without brain.


thanks Sandeep.
How are the chances in India of getting a company which is a non-indian cultured?? as per I've seen yet no one !! Hope there are.
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
There are many but my suggestion is do not wait for such MNCs, try to find any company which will give you chance and re start from there.
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

Well it is a mistake that you did by not having a first class degree in your engineering. I know a lot of my friends as well who graduated in 5th, 6th and the 7th year which I feel is really bad. You decided to enjoy life when in engineering and you are reeping its benefits now. Don't mistake me otherwise, I'm just being practical. This is a chance for most of the companies to filter out a lot of applicants. But repenting for a mistake in the past will serve no purpose. Just forget that and concentrate on your Java / J2EE skills and hone it furthur and keep attending interviews and grab any chance that you might get. Given your situation don't have any preference for any companies, any high salary and things like that. Again once at work you might have to work double hard than your normal co workers and prove to be unique.


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Pushkar Choudhary
Rancher

Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 425

Jothi Shankar Kumar wrote:You decided to enjoy life when in engineering and you are reeping its benefits now.

How do you know he didn't have any other problems and that he only "decided to enjoy life" instead of studying?

John,
Do not wait for any particular company. Just keep applying and I'm sure you'll get hired soon. Good luck!
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

Pushkar Choudhary wrote:
Jothi Shankar Kumar wrote:You decided to enjoy life when in engineering and you are reeping its benefits now.

How do you know he didn't have any other problems and that he only "decided to enjoy life" instead of studying?

John,
Do not wait for any particular company. Just keep applying and I'm sure you'll get hired soon. Good luck!


As I have written down in my post that I know some of my friends who never showed up for the classes and were enjoying in pubs and clubs and I guess if one is not able to pass an engineering degree in the private colleges in India which is not that so difficult (as compared to passing out from an IIT), then he is in-competent. But the same may not be true when he sets out for work. He may be better at work but always the track record of how you were in the past really matters. To an HR it sounds like the candidate was not knowledgeable enough in his academics and would carry the same impression when looking at such a candidates resume even before testing his technical capabilities.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone here but I'm just trying to be practical. Well "john Decosta", you might have had other problems that you might have faced during your academics but I'm sure it does not make sense at all to discuss that here. The point I want to make clear is that on the mindset of the HR hiring people especially in Indian software companies.
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
Jothi Shankar Kumar wrote:

As I have written down in my post that I know some of my friends who never showed up for the classes and were enjoying in pubs and clubs and I guess if one is not able to pass an engineering degree in the private colleges in India which is not that so difficult (as compared to passing out from an IIT), then he is in-competent. But the same may not be true when he sets out for work. He may be better at work but always the track record of how you were in the past really matters. To an HR it sounds like the candidate was not knowledgeable enough in his academics and would carry the same impression when looking at such a candidates resume even before testing his technical capabilities.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone here but I'm just trying to be practical. Well "john Decosta", you might have had other problems that you might have faced during your academics but I'm sure it does not make sense at all to discuss that here. The point I want to make clear is that on the mindset of the HR hiring people especially in Indian software companies.


It would be wise not to post on assumptions. Neither you or any one can say if someone went to pubs and clubs during their education or they had gone through some serious problems. It is absolutely unnecessary to relate John with your friends.

No one will write their personal problems in forum. So best way is try to help anyone who is in problem.
Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
Pushkar Choudhary wrote:
John,
Do not wait for any particular company. Just keep applying and I'm sure you'll get hired soon. Good luck!


Agree with Pushkar.

John, there are always ups and downs in life. You will feel proud of yourself when you come out of this. All the best.
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

Sandeep Awasthi wrote:

It would be wise not to post on assumptions. Neither you or any one can say if someone went to pubs and clubs during their education or they had gone through some serious problems. It is absolutely unnecessary to relate Jhon with our friends.

No one will write their personal problems in forum. So best way is try to help anyone who is in problem.


Of course I'm trying to help this guy here. He is also one of my friends as even I'm now 29 years of age. I just expressed my view here. Don't take this offending. As always said true knowledge will be respected anywhere and it just needs to be worked hard and in our friends case even more harder.

Sandeep Awasthi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Oct 23, 2003
Posts: 597
I am not taking this offending. It is none of my problems. Everyone has right to express views. But you should be careful when someone is already depressed. Read the topic again if you want. He is seeking someone to show him positive direction, not what he *might* had done wrong in past. He knows it.
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

Apologies surrendered!
Arun Kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Posts: 129

Most MNC's in INDIA has the same criteria for recruting 60%(or 50) through out your academics (10,12 and degree), and no more than 2 years break in career

I think the best approach is to target smaller companies , the chances of getting in to a smaller is much better when compared to an MNC

and remember there are lot of ppl who might have better grades who are competing with you for the same post , the trick here is to have BUZZ words in your resume which will attract the interviewers eye and make him ignore the degree results

BUZZ words : most effective will be JAVA Certifications and some advanced technologies like Spring,Hibernate,Webservice etc and if possible go for latest ones like SCALA (for which the number of exp ppl available are less)

well in some way or the other you have lost three extra years of your engg, you need to put in extra effort and make the soft skills in your resume appear so flashy that it hides the other short comings what so ever

you need to be well versed in the skill that you list in the resume
Jeanne Boyarsky
internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30076
    
149

John,
I live in a country that uses resumes and not CVs. (United States.) I didn't know a date of birth goes in a CV. A birthdate is definitely not in a resume in my country.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18508
    
  40

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I live in a country that uses resumes and not CVs. (United States.) I didn't know a date of birth goes in a CV. A birthdate is definitely not in a resume in my country.


In the U.S., not only is age not on the resume, but unless the age is part of the job description / requirements (such as hiring for baby models), it is illegal to ask for it during the interview process.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Ram Korutla
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 24, 2007
Posts: 80
Hi John

I dont mean to advocate corruption sort of things but in the worst case and as a last resort, I think you should also think of consultancies depending on your affordability and I think it might help you with a job

And by the end of the day talent is what matters and you will therefore have a bright future

All the best in your pursuit

Regards
john Decosta
Greenhorn

Joined: Jan 18, 2010
Posts: 5
Thank you Jeanne, Sandeep, Maneesh, Arun, Jothi, Pushkar, Henry & Shridhar.
Thanks for your support, tips, co-operation, suggestions.
You guys are amazing.
thanks again. I'll best try to follow your tips & work hard to add more skills to my resume.

Take care all of you.
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

john Decosta wrote:Thank you Jeanne, Sandeep, Maneesh, Arun, Jothi, Pushkar, Henry & Shridhar.
Thanks for your support, tips, co-operation, suggestions.
You guys are amazing.
thanks again. I'll best try to follow your tips & work hard to add more skills to my resume.

Take care all of you.


Try giving a couple of certifications which will definitely add some value to your resume.
rutuja patil
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 17, 2009
Posts: 23
google search for behavioural questions. prepare for those type of questions.
...don't worry... god is there to take care... best luck....
Shiva Sankhar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 19, 2009
Posts: 41
...
[MG]removed hijack
Maneesh Godbole
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jul 26, 2007
Posts: 10167
    
    8

Shiva,
Please do not hijack threads. You can post your question in a new thread.
http://faq.javaranch.com/java/UseOneThreadPerQuestion
Marria Samuel
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 04, 2010
Posts: 2
Most Effective Ways to Find a Job

1) Be patient!
According to Richard Bolles in “What Color is Your Parachute”, the average job search averages 2-6 months.•Get ready for 6 months of hard work, rejection, insecurity, and maybe even depression. Keep calm and remind yourself that if you keep trying hard, you will eventually get the job you want.
2) Discipline yourself!
Job hunting is a job in itself. The average job hunter in America only spends about 5 hours a week looking for a job. Treat job hunting like a serious job in itself and give it your full work discipline. Carefully plan out how you will use your time and stick to your schedule.
3) Don't wait for the job to come to you -- GO GET IT!
Research has shown that answering newspaper ads, using agencies, using school recruiting offices, sending resumes are some of the least effective ways to get a job. Going to a company and talking to people (especially the boss) is one of the most effective ways to get a job.
4) Pack your schedule!
The average job hunter only visits a few companies per week. The average job hunter may visit 10 – 70 companies before getting a job. It’s a numbers game: the more people you see, the sooner you will get the job you want.
5) Where's the growth?
Knowing the job market means knowing who is hiring. Often large companies hire in huge bursts of expansion (and downsize the same way as well). Small companies hire smaller numbers, but over 95% of all companies in America are small.
6) Network, Network, Network!
Let the world know that you are available for work. Discuss with family, friends, teachers, neighbors, lovers, strangers,… everyone! Don’t ask people for jobs directly; ask for their help and advice. Build a network digitally as well as verbally and use email, fax, and Web sites to help connect you to your “helpers”.
7) Visit the Institutions!
Extend your network to the larger society. Visit your old school, meet with the president and deans if you can, talk with your teachers, and get advise from your counselors and advisors. Stop by City Hall, the Library, the Post Office, even the local Fire Department if you can. All these social institutions see it as their job to help society and to do all they can to network with you.
8) Hit the Books, Again!
Keep your professional skills sharp while job hunting. Attend professional conferences, seminars, lectures, and groups. Network with your peers! Take part in professional organizations and especially online discussion groups. Develop a portfolio of your best work for all the interviews you will receive from your job hunting efforts.
9) Be Flexible about What Job You Will Take!
Keep this in mind. Those people who are more flexible about the job they will take will increase their chances of getting a job. Often a job is not exactly what you are looking for, but it might still be a very good job for you for other reasons. Perhaps you may gain a great deal of valuable work experience from this job. Perhaps it will allow you to network with other professionals. Perhaps it will give you more opportunities to learn and grow within this company. Be flexible about what you will take, and you may find more opportunities within that job.

www.jobsinworld.com
- Jobs in Singapore jobs in Bangalore jobs in Usa jobs in Sydney Chennai jobs in Mumbai and Gulf jobs. Part time jobs in world
salvin francis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2009
Posts: 917

Apply with popular job portals in india - naukri.com, monster jobs, etc.
I hear you get quality responses when using paid rather than free naukri.com, etc.
while you are at searching jobs, ensure that you are learning your self.

btw as an alternative, you could try teaching (at least until you get a job),
There are tons of computer institutes who readily take someone who knows the language in india.
It will also keep you in touch and make your basics strong as teaching is also learning.


Learn a technology thats relatively new in market.
I believe, recession is gone and the market is developing.....
btw i am younger than you (just 27)


@Maneesh Godbole
WOW man !! You are a great example to all those who measure intelligence by percentages - A trait among all indians.

Btw, here is a fact, in my college placements, there were guys who have got way higher percentages than me but they are still jobless...
Its never percentages !!

My Website: [Salvin.in] Cool your mind:[Salvin.in/painting] My Sally:[Salvin.in/sally]
Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9345
    
    2

Try also to participate and contribute in some OpenSource projects so as to sharpen your coding skills.
shan Iyer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 13, 2005
Posts: 391
@John,
Supplement your hard work with a little bit of prayer too. It works.


Warm Regards, S.Iyer
SCJP1.4, SCWCD1.4
salvin francis
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 12, 2009
Posts: 917

+1 @ shan Iyer
 
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