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Are Ruby on Rails programmers better paid than Java ones?

Rogerio Kioshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 12, 2005
Posts: 689
Hi,

I'd like to know if Ruby on Rails programmers are better paid than Java ones.


SCEA 5 (part 1), SCBCD, SCWCD, SCJP, CLP, CLS
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Depends on the job, the location, and the market. There's no way to generalize an answer. I've made equal amounts doing either, but I have a lot of experience.
Hussein Baghdadi
clojure forum advocate
Bartender

Joined: Nov 08, 2003
Posts: 3476

Hey David,
Would you please share with us your impressions about Rails?
I reading Rails in my free time.
IMHO, Rails absorbs Java frameworks until the last drop (something Rails folks never admit).
I met a lot of Rails programmers and I was shocked to see their ignorance about Ruby itself.
It looks many programmers learn Rails without learning Ruby itself in the first place.
But the secret sauce is the Ruby language itself which it is beautiful and flexible.
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

I think RoR is really great until you try to do something against the framework's wishes, then it's a nightmare. I'm hoping Rails 3 will fix some of it, or at least make things more amenable to customization.
Marc Peabody
pie sneak
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Posts: 4727

David Newton wrote:I think RoR is really great until you try to do something against the framework's wishes, then it's a nightmare. I'm hoping Rails 3 will fix some of it, or at least make things more amenable to customization.

I can't recall experiencing this. Are you thinking of any specific examples, David?


A good workman is known by his tools.
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

I needed to use a different templating engine (long story) adn wanted to tie it in to the existing mechanisms. Back then there was a bunch of hardcoded stuff revolving around that (which types were supported or cached or something, I forget what) and I would have had to change some RoR guts to get what I wanted, which I really didn't want to do. Changing the validation mechanism was similarly convoluted.

It shouldn't take much effort to find other tales of woe--issues hit while trying to do things in something other than the "Rails way" abound. Sometimes the problem can be restated in a way that allows a clean solution, other times monkey patching is the only way.
Marc Peabody
pie sneak
Sheriff

Joined: Feb 05, 2003
Posts: 4727

Validation is pretty easy to do what you want nowadays.

I can't really say much about the templating technology since you didn't say which one. I've only used ERB and HAML so far and they're both pretty good. Better than vanilla JSPs, anyway.
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

The issue with templating back then was that there were RoR internals hardcoded to a couple of file extensions. Grafting one in would have been a major pain.

I'm more or less fundamentally opposed to model-based validation, since I might want to use the same model for forms with different field requirements. Back then it was needlessly tied too closely.
Michael Sullivan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 26, 2003
Posts: 235

Jeremy McNally had some interesting notes on validations in Rails3
Some of the key items: ability to move validations out of the model with custom validators, shorthand for multiple validations dubbed "sexy validations", and moving validations out of ActiveRecord into ActiveModel.

Overall, the merge with Merb means that Rails3 will be a much more open framework in terms of ORM, templating, JS Frameworks, and generally going around/slimming down Rails. This slideshow hits on some of the key points. As the author noted, Rails is now "Less Opinionated" (and more flexible).

David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Yeah, I'm hoping that particularly with the merge it'll be a bit more like a framework I *really* like, instead of one I generally-like-for-some-classes-of-problems. I also saw those validation comments--definitely more along the lines of what I'd prefer.
 
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subject: Are Ruby on Rails programmers better paid than Java ones?
 
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