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To Authors - The Future of JSF

S Mishra
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 15
Hey Geary and Cay,

Whenever a technology is chosen for a particular Software Product, a lot of thoughts is given to the future of that technology and the comparisions with other technologies coming up in parallel.

As written in the Core JSF book, JSF is a server side technology (framework) that allows plugable built in UI Components for easy programming interface and Component Model for plugging in third party components. How far do you feel would take JSF to extinct or we getting a new technology that overcomes JSF.


Thanks in Advance,<br /> <br />SM
Cay Horstmann
author
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 14, 2004
Posts: 115
    
  11
Generally, the Java server-side framework space is in a sorry state. There are too many competing products. None of them has emerged as the killer product. None has won out by sheer force of marketshare.

Frankly, when JSF first was proposed, I had high hopes it would turn into the killer product. It hasn't. A killer product would have had to make the easy stuff easy--as in PHP and ASP.NET. JSF makes some of the hard stuff manageable (which is where PHP and ASP.NET fall short), and it is likely that tools will emerge that lower the barrier to entry.

I am not saying that JSF is worse than any of the competing technologies. My regret is that it is only a little bit better, not a lot better.

If JSF didn't have Sun behind it, I think it would go nowhere. But being an official part of J2EE, every app server vendor has to support it. Apache will support it (probably through MyFaces). That gives enough critical mass for tool vendors (such as Borland and Oracle).

JSF will be around for a good long time, and it will get incrementally better with every release. In that sense, it really will be "Swing for the Web".

Cay


Author of Java 8 for the Really Impatient
S Mishra
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 15
Thanks Cay for the useful information.

I think you are correct that JSF does not fully simplifies the ease of use pogramming as done by ASP.Net.

But still JSF is a J2EE product which according to you is -- The �hard-core coding� style, writing lots of code to support a highperformance
back end such as J2EE (the Java 2 Enterprise Edition).

I now one more product that really simplifies the Rich User UI Interface is Macromedia Flex.

One more question... Do you actually have any idea of what the world is looking ahead of a new technology... Is it such that employees all the Strong Points of ASP.Net and J2EE features.
Ko Ko Naing
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 08, 2002
Posts: 3178
Originally posted by Cay Horstmann:
Generally, the Java server-side framework space is in a sorry state. There are too many competing products. None of them has emerged as the killer product. None has won out by sheer force of marketshare.

But I guess, Struts is almost the killer product... For now, because of JSF, the fate of Struts is not quite clear anymore...

JSF will be around for a good long time, and it will get incrementally better with every release. In that sense, it really will be "Swing for the Web".

Cool, Mr.Cay, I like your words "Swing for the Web"... But Swing does not get that much acceptance from industries... Hope JSF leads to another trend...

P.S., Mishra, you might want to have a look at Mr.David's reply about the future of JSF in this thread also...
[ December 17, 2004: Message edited by: Ko Ko Naing ]

Co-author of SCMAD Exam Guide, Author of JMADPlus
SCJP1.2, CCNA, SCWCD1.4, SCBCD1.3, SCMAD1.0, SCJA1.0, SCJP6.0
Eusebio Floriano
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Joined: Mar 07, 2004
Posts: 237
Originally posted by Cay Horstmann:

If JSF didn't have Sun behind it, I think it would go nowhere. But being an official part of J2EE, every app server vendor has to support it. Apache will support it (probably through MyFaces). That gives enough critical mass for tool vendors (such as Borland and Oracle).


Cay,
Do you think that when great tool vendors be available and decrease the complexity of JSF, it will be most popular than struts and others frameworks?

regards,


SCJP 1.4 / 5.0 - SCBCD 1.3 - SCWCD 1.4 - IBM 484
S Mishra
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 15
Hi Vinicius Boson,

What I feel the Vendor Specific tool in turn adds a lot of Vendor Specific Properietory code, as what is done by WSAD 5.1.2 and Sun Java Developer, and many a times you do not want any properietory stuff to be included in your product/project.

Instead what I feel, the UI Components of the JSF should be made that much flexible to cover many kinds of situations.
Varun Khanna
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400


JSF is challenging Struts no doubt, but the JSF's challenge is (as of now)limited to tutorial, articles, forums, opinions that's it.

Practically JSF is yet to prove itself, and since I am working on JSF since quite sometime, I can gurantee you that it's not going to be so simple.
JSF has started off pretty well, idea is wonderful (that's why everyone feels its going to challenge Struts), but when it comes to implementation ... hmmmmm long way to go.
[ December 17, 2004: Message edited by: K Varun ]

- Varun
Varun Khanna
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 30, 2002
Posts: 1400
Originally posted by S Mishra:

I now one more product that really simplifies the Rich User UI Interface is Macromedia Flex.


and another one is Laszlo. These Flash products really really simplifies development like anything and importantly you won't need more than 2 days to learn these prducts (not a typo, I really mean 2 days)
S Mishra
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 14, 2004
Posts: 15
Originally posted by K Varun:
[QB]

I agree...

[QB]

I am lucky that i worked on both Struts and JSF. According to me till now Struts has the advantage that it simplifies the Java Proramming and Validations but JSF on the other hand simplifies the UI Design upto a certain extend than Struts.... U r correct.. Still a long way to go... Hope being a part to simplify and expertise on JSF.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15299
    
    6

Originally posted by S Mishra:
I am lucky that i worked on both Struts and JSF. According to me till now Struts has the advantage that it simplifies the Java Proramming and Validations but JSF on the other hand simplifies the UI Design upto a certain extend than Struts.... U r correct.. Still a long way to go... Hope being a part to simplify and expertise on JSF.


Hence the proposed Struts 2.0 Draft to use JSF as the view. I don't really consider these competing technologies. I think they are complementing technologies. JSF's controller is ellegant but unsophisticated whereas Struts view is still old school. Combine the 2 and watch the beauty unfold.


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Glen Cai
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Joined: Aug 24, 2002
Posts: 121
I bring back this old discussion about JSF and Struts.

It seems that JSF is gaining ground after it because part of JEE.


"I, a universe of atoms, an atom in the universe." - Richard Feynman
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61413
    
  67

Reviving a 4-year old thread isn't going to be very useful. If you want to start a new discussion please open a new topic. Preferably in the JSF forum.


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