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Java Beginner to Programmer

Clarence Huang
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 30, 2010
Posts: 6
I'm Java Beginner, but I want to get java techiqual license,such as SCJP..... how should I begin?
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Welcome to JavaRanch!

Just start programming. Others will probably disagree, but I think "working towards the test" when starting off is pointless, and not much fun. Instead, work through something like Head First Java, then decide how to proceed once you've achieved some basic proficiency.
Vivek S Chauhan
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 31, 2010
Posts: 3
The Complete Refrence java by Herbert Schildt is the best book to learn the basic concepts....
Then you can move on to Head First JAVA..
Passing SCJP wont be that difficult if you do a lot of programming...


scjp 6 98%
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

In my opinion you have that backwards--better to learn from a book specifically designed to teach effectively, *then* move towards dryer, more "reference"-like material.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 36478
    
  16
If at all possible, find somebody who knows how to program to teach you. If not, I agree with David N.
Clarence Huang
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 30, 2010
Posts: 6
David Newton wrote:Welcome to JavaRanch!

Just start programming. Others will probably disagree, but I think "working towards the test" when starting off is pointless, and not much fun. Instead, work through something like Head First Java, then decide how to proceed once you've achieved some basic proficiency.

Can you suggest a book is design for beginner? By the way, I have already understand how to install JDK, compile, so...uh...some people suggest "Effective Java, how about you?
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

I already did.
Clarence Huang
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 30, 2010
Posts: 6
David Newton wrote:I already did.
Head First Java? I'll search for this book download
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24166
    
  30

Clarence Blumstein wrote:
David Newton wrote:I already did.
Head First Java? I'll search for this book download


No, you won't -- you'll go out and buy the book. We don't condone piracy in any form here, and you'll find people are singularly unwilling to help you if they suspect you don't respect the intellectual property rights of others.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Clarence Huang
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 30, 2010
Posts: 6
I have no money to buy the book now
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24166
    
  30

Then you'll need to wait.
akhter wahab
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2009
Posts: 151

Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:
Clarence Blumstein wrote:
David Newton wrote:I already did.
Head First Java? I'll search for this book download


No, you won't -- you'll go out and buy the book. We don't condone piracy in any form here, and you'll find people are singularly unwilling to help you if they suspect you don't respect the intellectual property rights of others.




Ernest Friedman downloading a book from net resources that provide free downloading of the books shared by other peoples .... is it a piracy ?


Start Earning Online||Start Earning Using Java
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 36478
    
  16
akhter wahab wrote: . . . Ernest Friedman downloading a book from net resources that provide free downloading of the books shared by other peoples .... is it a piracy ?
Yes.

Unless the person who made the book available is the author, publisher or whoever holds the copyright (as was done for Bruce Eckel's Thinking in Java, 3rd edition), somebody who has the book must have copied it and put the stolen copy on the web.
Rob Spoor
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 27, 2005
Posts: 19541
    
  16

Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:Then you'll need to wait.

Or go to the library, and see if they have it.


SCJP 1.4 - SCJP 6 - SCWCD 5 - OCEEJBD 6
How To Ask Questions How To Answer Questions
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
I agree with Vivek, the complete reference book has some excellent reference material. If, however, you're new to programming I'd recommend a tutorial such as this:

http://leolol.com/website/java_eclipse_tutorial.html

It may be basic, but it'll give you a lot of confidence as well as teaching how to use an IDE like Eclipse.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 36478
    
  16
Welcome to the Ranch

I believe that a real beginner should avoid IDEs and learn to use the command line.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
Campbell Ritchie wrote:Welcome to the Ranch

I believe that a real beginner should avoid IDEs and learn to use the command line.


I agree with you to a certain extent Ritchie, in the fact that if a beginner uses the command line, they've got none of those fancy IDE features to distract (or intimidate) them, however in my first year of uni, we were using IDE's in the first week. (Hadn't an ounce of programming experience back then.)

If you check the tutorial out, its very basic, and using a professional IDE might instill some confidence in a new programmer, and let them concentrate on coding rather than fixing syntax errors.

In the end I guess its down to what you're comfortable with.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

Leo Hassaine wrote:...and let them concentrate on coding rather than fixing syntax errors.


Fixing syntax errors is vital to becoming a good developer.


GenRocket - A Test Data Generation Platform
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Leo Hassaine wrote:In the end I guess its down to what you're comfortable with.

Depends on your goals: IDEs remove much of the opportunities provided by simple manual exploration of libraries. If I'm always handed the answer on a plate I'm not learning as much, I don't have as much of an opportunity to fail, I'm not as likely to surf through Javadocs, and I'm far less aware of what's actually *happening* to get a program to run, the nuances of classpaths, etc. Plus it's multiple battles at once: I'd rather people focused on learning the language than their IDE.

If a superficial overview is the primary intent, then sure. Otherwise, not so much.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
Gregg Bolinger wrote:
Leo Hassaine wrote:...and let them concentrate on coding rather than fixing syntax errors.


Fixing syntax errors is vital to becoming a good developer.


Perhaps I should have put spelling mistakes as syntax could be a bit ambiguous. I'm talking about a miss spelled variable or function. Without an IDE or a at least a code highlighter, mistakes like that can take fustratingly long to spot. (and I can't imagine being able to spot an 'I instead of an l' in a program would contribute to great programming skills).

But again, both ways have their merits.
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Leo Hassaine wrote:(and I can't imagine being able to spot an 'I instead of an l' would contribute to great programming skills).

I'd chalk that up to an underactive imagination.

Being able to spot subtleties *is what programming is all about*, regardless of their variety. And guess what--you won't always *have* the opportunity for an IDE to point out errors like that: you might be in a JSP or other dynamic environment where variables aren't able to be determined programmatically. You might be trying to figure out what's wrong by looking at a source file at 3am using "less" to fix a production issue.

Attention to detail is a *critical* programming skill. As is the ability to choose a font that makes those kinds of errors disappear.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
I think I'll sum my point up with a short analogy, as I think we're straying from the point a bit.

If you jump in the deep end without being able to swim, you're probably gonna drown. (or at least dislike it enough so as not to jump in again next time! :P)

An IDE, or 'rubber arm bands' in this case, make life a bit easier. Have them on for a while, and you'll probably enjoy swimming (programming). Then sure, take them off and practice with all the command line stuff so you can really appreciate all the aspects of what you're doing, but you don't have to do it all at the start. IDE's helped me when I was learning, and they may or may not help you in the same way.



Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
Oh, and in regards to someone up there ^ saying they can't afford a book: Why not just use the Sun website? Or Google for that matter? There's a myriad of great Java tutorials out there all for free!
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Leo Hassaine wrote:If you jump in the deep end without being able to swim, you're probably gonna drown. (or at least dislike it enough so as not to jump in again next time!

An IDE *is* the deep end, because you're solving multiple problems at once. The "shallow" end is taking things one step at a time, understanding each as you go.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
In my opinion, jumping into the deep end is trying to program without basic support offered by even a simple IDE such as code highlighting.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2001
Posts: 15286
    
    6

David Newton wrote:
Leo Hassaine wrote:If you jump in the deep end without being able to swim, you're probably gonna drown. (or at least dislike it enough so as not to jump in again next time!

An IDE *is* the deep end, because you're solving multiple problems at once. The "shallow" end is taking things one step at a time, understanding each as you go.


+1
Arun C. Giridharan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 96
Basically it must depend upon the Capacity of you (inherit knowledge)....
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Leo Hassaine wrote:In my opinion, jumping into the deep end is trying to program without basic support offered by even a simple IDE such as code highlighting.

Still backwards, but that's okay. I'll always maintain that people learn best without crutches, one step at a time. An angry fruit salad of colors doesn't provide a beginning programmer with additional information--there's no context in which to put the "help". Fewer things in the way of learning the underlying technology.

Of course, I think Java is amongst the worst possible teaching languages, too.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
David Newton wrote:Of course, I think Java is amongst the worst possible teaching languages, too.


My 3 years learning Java at uni were great. Excellent way of getting you straight in there with Object-Oriented approaches as apposed to procedural programming. I've seen my friends coming from C to Java struggle to understand the Object-Oriented side of things, which is probably why alot of uni's chose Java.
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

Java is not a great example of an OO language. An improvement from C++? I suppose, but... I set my sights higher.
Leo Hassaine
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 02, 2010
Posts: 25
Sigh, I think I'll sit this one out.
akhter wahab
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2009
Posts: 151

Campbell Ritchie wrote:
akhter wahab wrote: . . . Ernest Friedman downloading a book from net resources that provide free downloading of the books shared by other peoples .... is it a piracy ?
Yes.

Unless the person who made the book available is the author, publisher or whoever holds the copyright (as was done for Bruce Eckel's Thinking in Java, 3rd edition), somebody who has the book must have copied it and put the stolen copy on the web.



Campbell i was not aware of that i will be carefull in future thanks..
Arun C. Giridharan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 96
Is it worth only by understanding the programs ....??? and programming a bit .....


For example i have 20 programs over a day to program ,i just understand the topic and the code for 15 programs and code other 5 [bit lazy] ...Could that be a worth for a better programmer.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 36478
    
  16
Do you really code 25% of your work without understanding it? I hope these are only exercises!
Clarence Huang
Greenhorn

Joined: Jul 30, 2010
Posts: 6
Do you have any free tutorial is include all about *Java Basic* now?
I mean free is "the author said it's free"
I hav already understand how to install JDK,compile *.java files, so I don't need any tutorial about "them".
I know you'll tell me just google it, but they aren't downloadable, I hope it's free(I told you what's free) and downloadable
I was download Sun's tutorial, but the file size is huge, my download sped is too sloooooow to download the huge files
David Newton
Author
Rancher

Joined: Sep 29, 2008
Posts: 12617

There are a *ton* of free Java tutorials and resources available on the web.
Arun C. Giridharan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 11, 2010
Posts: 96
Do you really code 25% of your work without understanding it?


I never tried Different things.......when i take any of the mock test i get surprised by each question.
Mahesh Kedari
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 28, 2009
Posts: 111
Guys, you might be confusing Clarence. with such a big discussion on this topic..

Clarence, go for this.
Start with hello world program (Almost 80% programmers start with the same program, dont know why )
Use google if you dont have money, there are many free resources for beginners available on net...
Also you can use Google Books with limited view so, you can read quality books, without piracy.

Regards,
Mahesh Kedari - Fidus Technologies Ltd.
akhter wahab
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 02, 2009
Posts: 151

I never tried Different things.......when i take any of the mock test i get surprised by each question.


same here i can write good programs using IDE's but when i seen a mock test i am nil in it because i don't know the deep understanding of Java
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 36478
    
  16
akhter wahab wrote: . . . i don't know the deep understanding of Java
You need lots more practice.
 
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