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Salary or Good work.

pawan chopra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 413

Hi All,

I have recently got an opportunity to work with a company that has great environment and great work, some great people. But the package they are offering is average. Should I go for this opportunity as work is really good or should I wait for some good package?


Pawan Chopra
SCJP - DuMmIeS mInD
Mohamed Sanaulla
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 3099
    
  33

pawan chopra wrote:Hi All,

I have recently got an opportunity to work with a company that has great environment and great work, some great people. But the package they are offering is average. Should I go for this opportunity as work is really good or should I wait for some good package?


I would suggest: "a company that has great environment and great work, some great people".


Mohamed Sanaulla | My Blog
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
pawan chopra wrote:Hi All,

I have recently got an opportunity to work with a company that has great environment and great work, some great people. But the package they are offering is average. Should I go for this opportunity as work is really good or should I wait for some good package?


I should say go for the money! Who cares about great people, the mortgage has to be paid and the kids fed.

Or to say it in other words, that now totally depends on your own situation now does not it? Especially the financial one. I for instance, do not like my present work environment but the money is good, so is the experience and I am the sole provider as this moment of the family. Now if I would have thousands of $$$ in the bank, no daughter depending on me to finance her college, yeah well, may-be I'd go.
Shanky Sohar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 17, 2010
Posts: 1051

Evrybody has his own thinking..
Why not take your own decision irrespective of thinking what others say.


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kaustuv saha
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 14, 2009
Posts: 27
I am not suggesting you to choose money over everything else but do keep in mind that "great environment and great work, some great people" is essentially your perception of the organization which may differ from reality. On the other hand your salary structure is something concrete and well documented.


Certifications: SCJP (2005), SCWCD (2006), OCA (2006), WAS Admin (2007), SCBCD (2008), SCJD (2009), SCDJWS(2009)
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
Oooh @Saha, do let me super super second that!! Some employers lie about the opportunities you will get at your new job and how great and interesting the environment is. Sometimes they even themselves do not note that they are lie-ing, since they love their own baby, their own creation so much, they think all team member would love it too, it has to be. Ohh, this brings back memories!!
Kaustubh G Sharma
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 13, 2010
Posts: 1281

Go for money ....and for good work,people and environment...keep youself resposible and do your best to create such people,work and environment


No Kaustubh No Fun, Know Kaustubh Know Fun..
Mohamed Sanaulla
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Posts: 3099
    
  33

kaustuv saha wrote:I am not suggesting you to choose money over everything else but do keep in mind that "great environment and great work, some great people" is essentially your perception of the organization which may differ from reality. On the other hand your salary structure is something concrete and well documented.

I seriously agree with this!
pawan chopra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 413

Thanks a lot everybody. But I know the company environment very well. I have few friends working over there. I have decided to go for that. Thanks again
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19073
    
  40

pawan chopra wrote:Thanks a lot everybody. But I know the company environment very well. I have few friends working over there. I have decided to go for that. Thanks again


When I first started out, I too, chose the environment over monetary gain. Working with people you like (and trust) has huge advantages -- you'll enjoy your work more when you do it with (or for) people whom you like. People you like are more likely to be your friends, your mentors, and people whom you'll work again in your career. etc.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
Henry Wong wrote:When I first started out, I too


did not have a wife, a mortgage and kids studying in college!
pawan chopra
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 23, 2008
Posts: 413

Jan de Boer wrote:
Henry Wong wrote:When I first started out, I too


did not have a wife, a mortgage and kids studying in college!


Same case with me
Manish Chhabra
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 24, 2010
Posts: 15

If you can run your household smoothly with the lower salary go for that. You might have few $$ less in your pocket by the time you retire but you would have had a happy life.


Manish Chhabra
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19073
    
  40

Manish Chhabra wrote:If you can run your household smoothly with the lower salary go for that. You might have few $$ less in your pocket by the time you retire but you would have had a happy life.


I beg to differ. When you like what you are doing, you get better at it. And when you are good at what you are doing, people notice. And when people notice, you will get woo'ed. Heck, these people can end up being long time friends during the lifespan of a career. I will argue that by the time you retire, your salary will much higher than if you had worked all your life at something you hated doing.

So yes, the worst cast scenario is that you'll be happier. The best case scenario is you'll be happier, have more friends, and be richer.

Henry
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
Henry Wong wrote:I beg to differ. When you like what you are doing, you get better at it..


Oooh Henry this is, in my humble opinion, such a horrible cliché! And in such a way I must protest! If you like what you are doing, then it does not mean you like to do it 50 hours a week. Like a whole work week, and at home studying. Sorry but for many people, including me, everything you do every day, gets to be boring. For example, I love to watch sports. Football (soccer for the Americans) especially, but if I see commentators of the matches on TV, saying that they had watched this and that match, comparing players, I think that if would for my job had to watch sports whole day, week in week out, I'd soon get bored of it.

Also doing something is mostly fun, as a hobby, if nobody is putting you under pressure, it does not have a crazy deadline you have to meet, no politics. You remind me of my team lead, who is always saying that he made his profession out of his hobby. But meanwhile keeps on complaining, about the management, about the pressure, about sometimes in his job having to do something he does not like. He keeps on nagging, and nagging. Yeah, he is really happy... He is so much disappointed in life, since he found out programming as a job is something else than playing with computer Lego as a kid. God have mercy on his pity soul, man! Oh he is such a sissy.

I don't love what I am doing, but I don't hate it either. I do it, without complaining, but at home, no I hardly ever touch the computer. I think I for example use the computer léss in my free time than an average citizen. And I am happy that way.
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 31079
    
163

Jan de Boer wrote:Oooh Henry this is, in my humble opinion, such a horrible cliché! And in such a way I must protest! If you like what you are doing, then it does not mean you like to do it 50 hours a week.

While I agree that very few (if any) people like 100% of their job, I think it is important to enjoy part/most of it to grow. If nothing else, it makes the politics and unpleasant parts more bearable.

It's not quite as fun coding at work than it is in my free time because I can choose what to do in the late. But that's why it stays as a hobby to do.

How can technology get boring? It changes so often?


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Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:How can technology get boring? It changes so often?


Well let first say I agree with you for large parts, but... I also want to do other things in my life then computers. So I am not doing any programming in my free time. I do sports: ran 5km yesterday, I am listening about a radio program about history at the moment, I am going to watch tennis this afternoon. Also I am joining a course to better my German next month. So many other things in the world.

And also doing computers as a hobby reminds me of work, and then also bad things about my work. Technólogy does not bore me at my work, I like it át my work, more then the politics stuff. But seriously, no! I do 40 hours of work at my job, 10 hours of reading in the train. After I step out of the train, I don't want to hear about computers, because I do not want to be reminded about the not dominant, but certainly present not nice things in my job.

Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 19073
    
  40

Jan de Boer wrote:
Well let first say I agree with you for large parts, but... I also want to do other things in my life then computers. So I am not doing any programming in my free time. I do sports: ran 5km yesterday, I am listening about a radio program about history at the moment, I am going to watch tennis this afternoon. Also I am joining a course to better my German next month. So many other things in the world.


This topic definitely deviated from the original question. so routing it back a little... When I was talking about enjoying your work, I obviously used the extremes, loving your job makes you better, hating your job, blah, blah, blah. It doesn't have to be dramatic -- it could be a minor difference of different shades of liking your job; it could be the difference of liking the location, the people, etc.; and just a bit more to spend an extra 15 minutes a day at work, etc.

The point that I was getting at was... if you make a job decision based on good work, to try to increase this; this can get dramatic at the end of a 40 year career.

I still hang out with some of my former managers (albeit, not as much anymore because I don't get to California as often as I like anymore). Did these managers or coworkers made me better at what I do and hence, helped my career? Or was I just a workaholic back then, and would have done it anyway? That I do not know. What I do know is this, these people did help my career (and vice-versa) -- people help people they like, that's just human nature.

Henry
chris webster
Bartender

Joined: Mar 01, 2009
Posts: 1873
    
  16

Jan is right: there is more to life than computing and work.

But as long as you still have to earn a living doing something, you might as well try to find ways to make it more interesting and enjoyable. So if you get the chance to do interesting work with interesting people, and if you can manage OK on the salary, then I would say go for the interesting job every time, because you will learn more, have more fun and it may well generate new opportunities you didn't expect.

Things change very fast in IT, and I've learned the hard way that doing the same old work for better money can rapidly reduce your options for finding something more interesting later on, and it can even make it hard for you to find work if your current job disappears. So you need to take every opportunity to acquire new skills and different experience whenever you can, because it will help you to keep earning in the long run, even if you earn a little less in the short term.

So keep doing interesting things, work with and learn from interesting people, and make sure you have a life outside computers in your spare time as well.

Easy, huh?


No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 31079
    
163

I find it ironic that the last five posts were on a weekend about whether one should do computer stuff outside of work.

I don't see how having hobbies other than computers precludes doing any programming in free time. This weekend, I wrote a little code for the ranch, went to a World Science festival talk on artificial intelligence and went on a day trip where I mountain biked, ziplined, kayaked and enjoyed the outdoors.

"because I do not want to be reminded about the not dominant, but certainly present not nice things in my job. "
This is an interesting point of view, because it has been the opposite for me. During the brief times I was unhappy about something at work (except too many hours) or not being able to do enough technical work for a spell, I did more programming in my free time to make me feel better. It didn't remind me of the job.

Robert Martin points out something interesting in his book "The Clean Coder". The 40 hours at work are spent on your employer's problems. The time spent coding outside of work is for you.
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I don't see how having hobbies other than computers precludes doing any programming in free time.


Ah this thread is going a bit of topic now....

But other things are: I am pretty sensitive to RSI too, so I don't touch the computer. I don't have much time, since I am a single dad, and well got to do some domestic stuff each weekend too. And if I do enjoy something work related in my free time, it's more reading a book about design, or studying a course like SCJP, rather then programming behind the PC. Also I am not a not a System-Administrator. I will always try to avoid having to install or repair my neighbors hardware, or operating system. First I am not capable of that, since at my job it is already done by another person. Second I don't like doing that. I even told my daughter: "Do not tell anyone I am into computers!!". Since before you know it, all nieces, nephews, acquaintances, and vague friends, think you can help them. And also I am not interested in the latest gadgets like i-Phones and Pads and all that fancy consumer stuff. I am pretty anti materialistic too. Yeah I am crazy!

Nevertheless, please understand, for those 40 hours, I still enjoy my computer work.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61772
    
  67

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Robert Martin points out something interesting in his book "The Clean Coder". The 40 hours at work are spent on your employer's problems. The time spent coding outside of work is for you.

This is a really interesting and important point. If I had only concentrated on doing my day job, and never taught myself other computer skills on my own time, my career would have been very different, and (I feel) far less successful and fulfilling.

I always seemed to learn the technology needed for my next job on my own time. What I was doing for my employer generally did little or nothing for furthering my own gaols and needs.


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chris webster
Bartender

Joined: Mar 01, 2009
Posts: 1873
    
  16

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I find it ironic that the last five posts were on a weekend about whether one should do computer stuff outside of work.


Good point!

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:I don't see how having hobbies other than computers precludes doing any programming in free time. This weekend, I wrote a little code for the ranch, went to a World Science festival talk on artificial intelligence and went on a day trip where I mountain biked, ziplined, kayaked and enjoyed the outdoors.


Sounds like a great weekend (although I think I'd skip the zipline...)!

My own experience is that spending all my free time on the computer is not always healthy, at least not for me, even if I'm enjoying it at the time (a bit like red wine is very enjoyable but not always a good idea in abundance) so personally I need to remind myself of that fact sometimes. But if people are having fun coding or learning in their own time in their own way - good luck to them!
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 490
    
    1
chris webster wrote:a bit like red wine is very enjoyable but not always a good idea in abundance


Well, that is my point of view, also my character. Anything in abundance gets boring for me. Even things I liked previously. Similar to Pietje Keizer who played left striker brilliantly but after his career, refused to kick a ball back if you kicked towards him. And I remember Richard Krajicek, at one time hating tennis, but loving to play football with his tennis friends as a distraction. Later won Wimbledon, and now organizer of a tennis tournament in Den Bosch. I am like that. I am not proud of it or something, I could even make my life easier, and career more successful if it was different... Especially the latter I think.

But it getting like Meaningless Drivel here?
David Byron
Rancher

Joined: Jan 20, 2009
Posts: 172

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Robert Martin points out something interesting in his book "The Clean Coder". The 40 hours at work are spent on your employer's problems. The time spent coding outside of work is for you.
This is a really interesting and important point. ...I always seemed to learn the technology needed for my next job on my own time. What I was doing for my employer generally did little or nothing for furthering my own goals and needs.
Exactly. I can never count on our customers to need or request the technologies I'm currently interesting in trying. In fact, I can nearly always count on them not to track my prevailing interests in a timely way. This means that in the Venn Diagram of Life™, "fun" comprises "fun with code" (as well as non-programming stuff), and while some of "fun with code" overlaps "work", much or most of it does not!


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Joshua Mccartney
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 25, 2012
Posts: 26
My advise is grab the opportunity, nowadays all people needs work so they can have salary. If ever there is another opportunity that will come and can satisfy your needs as well as your family grab it. For now, you need work for your family.


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subject: Salary or Good work.