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ubuntu vs windows (or mac)

Gregg Bolinger
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Joined: Jul 11, 2001
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    6

Ubuntu these days is so good that you do not need to tinker with it. f you buy a Dell with Ubuntu pre-installed, then you can be sure that it works, because Dell ofcourse wouldn't sell it if you'd had to tinker with it to make it actually work.


Until the next kernel version comes out which makes your wifi quit working, or your sound card, or something. It's always something. So I call complete BS on that statement.


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Jesper de Jong
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  16

I haven't had problems like that happening on any of the computers that I've been running Ubuntu on in the last two years. Do you use Ubuntu yourself or is this just what you've heard from others?


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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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    6

I've used Ubuntu off and on since its inception. Every single time I would upgrade, something would stop working. You can say it has never happened to you, and I believe you. But it happens to me, which is most important. So I stopped medling. I have zero need/use for Ubuntu since switching to Mac.
Michael Ernest
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When I installed OpenSolaris on my laptop, the carps I thought I had about my Dell vanished. I can only guess Windows was the real culprit. I have had no problems (that I didn't create myself) ever since with my laptop.

The Macs are certainly finer machines and you pay accordingly. There's nothing I can actually *do* on a Mac that I can't do on a less-expensive machine, except pay for software.


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Gregg Bolinger
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    6

The whole "macs cost more" statements that get thrown out in defense of free stuff gets old. I don't think anyone disagrees that writing a check for a mac is going to require a higher dollar value that writing a check for a PC with whatever installed on it. But the cost of computer goes beyond the initial dollars spent. And sure, I've paid for some software to use on my Mac but I also use a lot of free open source alternatives to some commercial products. And my cost savings isn't in the initial hit to the wallet. It is something that occurs over time.

So I'd advice all those throwing out the "macs cost more" argument to come up with something better. And for the record, I think Windows 7 is a fine OS, as far as Microsoft OS's go. But I do hate all flavors of linux (Ubuntu, RH, CentOS, etc) as desktop workstations. My biz partner LOVES Ubuntu. But you know what? He runs it in a VM on his Macbook Pro.
Michael Ernest
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I dunno, Gregg. Every time I walk into the Apple Store, with the hip twentysomethings who don't actually seem to know much about the stuff they're selling -- other than the consumer electronics -- with the throng of customers who don't actually seem to know much about the stuff they're buying -- other than it's the right brand -- with the Genius bar appointments my wife and Mom can never get, and the I'd-say 85-15 noise-to-signal on people who would rather praise the Mac than tinker with it, I still look at the price tag and ask who tf wants to out-of-pocket that amount for computing hardware?

I don't buy that TCO implication at all. If you're just getting giggles running a Mac and flat-out enjoying it that much, more power to you. That's not a discount or a savings, that's a benefit you're willing to pay more to get.
Gregg Bolinger
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    6

Michael Ernest wrote:I dunno, Gregg. Every time I walk into the Apple Store, with the hip twentysomethings who don't actually seem to know much about the stuff they're selling -- other than the consumer electronics -- with the throng of customers who don't actually seem to know much about the stuff they're buying -- other than it's the right brand -- with the Genius bar appointments my wife and Mom can never get, and the I'd-say 85-15 noise-to-signal on people who would rather praise the Mac than tinker with it, I still look at the price tag and ask who tf wants to out-of-pocket that amount for computing hardware?

I don't buy that TCO implication at all. If you're just getting giggles running a Mac and flat-out enjoying it that much, more power to you. That's not a discount or a savings, that's a benefit you're willing to pay more to get.


I don't shop in the Apple stores. I buy mine online. I get more than giggles out of it. I get a machine that does everything I need it to do without getting in my way of doing it. Linux and Windows always got in my way. YMMV, obviously. Some folks enjoy tinkering and customizing and tweaking. I used to like to do that stuff. Now I just want something that works. And for me, Macs just work.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
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  65

I'm firmly with Gregg on this one.

As I said in the other thread, I put a great deal of value on my time and psyche. That goes into my TCO calculation.

As does the resale value of Mac hardware. PC hardware has little to none.


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Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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    6

And for the record, I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy a Mac. I could care less what anyone else uses. I'm just stating why I prefer Macs and issues I've had with various other platforms.
Michael Ernest
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Bear Bibeault wrote:I'm firmly with Gregg on this one.

As I said in the other thread, I put a great deal of value on my time and psyche. That goes into my TCO calculation.

As does the resale value of Mac hardware. PC hardware has little to none.

Sure, but I get the idea that it's not really a Mac v. PC discussion, it's a Mac v. Windows discussion. Plus a little from people who've had flaky experiences on a Linux that they could afford not to forgive. And the flaky experiences on Windows they couldn't afford not to forgive, at least for a time. And the "adjustments" to the Mac experience that were washed over by other, more gratifying aspects of the experience.

The last time I re-sold a computer was 1986 or '87. That was back in the day when hobby/industry commentators like Dvorak liked bragging that it was actually cheaper to stay on the front edge of the PC market because you could sell a once bleeding-edge machine (with the kinks now worked out) to a middle-curve adopter and pay little or nothing net for the Next Cool Motherboard, or whatever.

You have a resale market for Macs *because* there's a real margin on the front-end, and therefore depreciation that doesn't represent anything more than a showroom discount. I for one have consistently paid fewer dollars for each computer I have bought for a long time now. There's no resale value on them because, pound for pound, they can't actually compete with whatever's latest and greatest. To each they own market model...
Pat Farrell
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Joined: Aug 11, 2007
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    5

Bear Bibeault wrote:As does the resale value of Mac hardware. PC hardware has little to none.

Resale value of a computer? What is that? Computers are disposable, in three years, they have no value.

I don't count calculations that show that a $2500 new MacBook Pro is worth $500 in three years, when the Windows PC laptop is $1500 and worth $100. Its still a $2000 delta for the Mac and $1400 for the Windows box. Sadly, there is rarely any real saving with a new Ubuntu box, the cost to "manufacturers" of a Windows license is so small that it usually disappears.

I will admit that my new MacBook Pro is pretty, and it has a great screen. But it is heavy and it gets hot like every other laptop I've ever used. I don't like the keyboard, but my last laptop was a Lenovo Thinkpad, and they have great keyboards.

I run Chrome and Thunderbird rather than Safari and whatever bad mail client OS-X includes. I use OpenOffice on all of my machines, if it can't be done with Open Office, I don't need to do it.

I will say that the best $80 for software that I've paid in a long time, and probably the most impressive commercial software that I've bought in at least a decade is Apple's Aperture. Its a photo editing tool, and I hack around with photography. Its a wonderful tool, and Apple only.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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  65

I'll respectfully disagree. I've always gotten great value for my used hardware.
Pat Farrell
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    5

Bear Bibeault wrote:I've always gotten great value for my used hardware.

Do you mean you have received a lot of money when you sell used hardware? Got an example?
My daughter gave us her two year old MacBook (not Pro) when it no longer could be used for development. It might have been worth a couple hundred bucks. So after 20 years of her getting my old slow machines, we got hers.
Gregg Bolinger
GenRocket Founder
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    6

My biz partner just sold his 2 year old 15" Macbook Pro for $1400. He paid $2400 for it new.
Jeanne Boyarsky
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150

Hmm. I never sold used hardware. I donated it to charity/a school to use for internet surfing once it couldn't be used for development anymore.


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Pat Farrell
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Joined: Aug 11, 2007
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    5

Jeanne Boyarsky wrote:Hmm. I never sold used hardware. I donated it to charity/a school to use for internet surfing once it couldn't be used for development anymore.

I have a retired friend who I give mine to. He collects old PCs, and gets free ones from FreeCycle and craigslist. He combines working parts and then sells them for $25 or so to folks looking for their first PC. Its not officially a charity, but that is what it is. The folks who "buy" them are always very grateful.

These days, you can buy a brand new dual and sometimes quad core system for under $500, so an old machine that can only run XP has no practical financial value. But as a first computer, they are well appreciated.
 
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