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Failed although enough points

Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
hmmm... i failed even i had enough points to pass. wtf?

(not too happy about points)

Waiting for response to email from Oracle.


SCJP 5.0, SCJD URLyBird 1.3.3, OCMJEA 5 (SCEA) Factory Homes
Youssef Ben Kaddour El Wazzani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 41
Hi Jari,

Sorry to hear that, but i'm afread i didn't understand what did you mean !

Jari Timonen sayed:
Failed although enough points

Have you received a scoring email marked as "failed" even if you got >= 114 points ?

Good luck,
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Youssef Ben Kaddour El Wazzani wrote:Hi Jari,

Sorry to hear that, but i'm afread i didn't understand what did you mean !

Jari Timonen sayed:
Failed although enough points

Have you received a scoring email marked as "failed" even if you got >= 114 points ?

Good luck,


Yes. The calculation is > 114 points.
Krzysztof Koziol
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Posts: 133

Did they provide any info which sections were scored low and need to be improved?


SCJP 5.0, SCWCD 5.0, SCBCD 5.0, SCEA/OCMJEA 5.0
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Krzysztof Koziol wrote:Did they provide any info which sections were scored low and need to be improved?


Yes they did. It was the standard "you failed" message. It also said what was the minimum score that i should have gotten.
I got above that.
Will Myers
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2009
Posts: 325

Have they changed the scoring system so you need to get above a certain number of points in each section?
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
will myers wrote:Have they changed the scoring system so you need to get above a certain number of points in each section?


No, that i know of. Might be issue with moving to Paersonvue..
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
While waiting for email, i'm not going to waste time. Even if i pass. I really wan't to know what went bonkers.

Accessor: Assessment : Marks lost in the three major UML diagrams (class, component and deployment) due to an incomplete representation of the business problem coupled with an inadequate level of detail. The candidate is also encouraged to revisit the mitigations proposed for the top three risks and to add more detail on exactly how each mitigation will be implemented and how it will adequately resolve the risk identified.

Factory Homes
Class Diagram: No JSP's, used composite pattern in domain model (16 classes + domain model), did not show any interfaces,
Component: presentation, managed beans, session beans, DAO's + web services.
Deployment: This was the reason i failed. Got really bad scores. firewall, load balancer (also between IMS/3D modelling tool), two nodes. Also used cloud computing.. this might been big mistake.


Please delete this post if too detailed information..

Help?

ps. yes, I did read Cades book.
Vignesh Murali Natarajan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 65

Jari Timonen wrote:While waiting for email, i'm not going to waste time. Even if i pass. I really wan't to know what went bonkers.

Accessor: Assessment : Marks lost in the three major UML diagrams (class, component and deployment) due to an incomplete representation of the business problem coupled with an inadequate level of detail. The candidate is also encouraged to revisit the mitigations proposed for the top three risks and to add more detail on exactly how each mitigation will be implemented and how it will adequately resolve the risk identified.

Factory Homes
Class Diagram: No JSP's, used composite pattern in domain model (16 classes + domain model), did not show any interfaces,
Component: presentation, managed beans, session beans, DAO's + web services.
Deployment: This was the reason i failed. Got really bad scores. firewall, load balancer (also between IMS/3D modelling tool), two nodes. Also used cloud computing.. this might been big mistake.


Please delete this post if too detailed information..

Help?

ps. yes, I did read Cades book.


You seem to have received detailed description on the problem areas, but the puzzling piece is that you say that you got a score that is greater than the passing score which is ironical
I feel that the class diagram should include JSPs and interfaces. Basically things that you create for the project. Although the JSPs do not belong there, I adhered to Cade's style and did put them in there. Maybe you should add more classes to improve detail

ThanQ,
Vignesh Murali N
www.vigneshmurali.com
SCJP(95%), SCWCD(92%), SCBCD(97%), SCDJWS(97%), SCBCD5(100%), OCMJEA
Sharma Ashutosh
Bartender

Joined: Apr 06, 2001
Posts: 346
I appreciate your honesty that you are sharing this experience.
What i am failed to understand that have you really failed?
How much marks you got? Do you need to pass individual sections or overall 114 marks?


Ashutosh Sharma
SCJP 1.2, SCEA 5, Brainbench certified J2EE Developer, Documentum Certified Professional
Blog : http://scea5-passingpart2and3.blogspot.com/
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Sharma Ashutosh wrote:I appreciate your honesty that you are sharing this experience.
What i am failed to understand that have you really failed?
How much marks you got? Do you need to pass individual sections or overall 114 marks?



Here are my points (117/160):

Questions (24 maximum) ................................. 24
Class Diagram (40 maximum) .......................... 27
Component Diagram (40 maximum) .................. 30
Deployment Diagram (24 maximum) .................. 9
Interaction Diagrams (16 maximum) ................. 16
Technical Risks (16 maximum) ......................... 11
Sharma Ashutosh
Bartender

Joined: Apr 06, 2001
Posts: 346
Here are my points (117/160):

Questions (24 maximum) ................................. 24
Class Diagram (40 maximum) .......................... 27
Component Diagram (40 maximum) .................. 30
Deployment Diagram (24 maximum) .................. 9
Interaction Diagrams (16 maximum) ................. 16
Technical Risks (16 maximum) ......................... 11


Class diagrams, deployment diagram and technical risks needs to be re-submitted.
As your interaction diagrams is a pass candidate-you don't have to work on the public methods.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Sharma Ashutosh wrote:
Here are my points (117/160):

Questions (24 maximum) ................................. 24
Class Diagram (40 maximum) .......................... 27
Component Diagram (40 maximum) .................. 30
Deployment Diagram (24 maximum) .................. 9
Interaction Diagrams (16 maximum) ................. 16
Technical Risks (16 maximum) ......................... 11


Class diagrams, deployment diagram and technical risks needs to be re-submitted.
As your interaction diagrams is a pass candidate-you don't have to work on the public methods.



Where do they say that? Passing score is 114. Nothing is said about passing level of individual scores.

Sharma Ashutosh
Bartender

Joined: Apr 06, 2001
Posts: 346
Well i can't point you to the exact link. But it's quite obvious for me at least-you just don't have to score overall passing marks but have to pass individual sections.
Just like Bachelor's of Engineering degree-someone might be scoring 75% overall but failing in one of the semesters due to one of the subjects-degree is not awarded in all such cases.

May be you can ask the OCP team for the link.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Sharma Ashutosh wrote:Well i can't point you to the exact link. But it's quite obvious for me at least-you just don't have to score overall passing marks but have to pass individual sections.
Just like Bachelor's of Engineering degree-someone might be scoring 75% overall but failing in one of the semesters due to one of the subjects-degree is not awarded in all such cases.

May be you can ask the OCP team for the link.



Yes, i sent them email yesterday. The "failed email" says clearly that passing score is 114.

I know what to work on, but i need confirmation from OCP team.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Class diagram: Added JSP's, remote interfaces for session beans, Added more detail to one pattern
Component: Split JSP's and Managed Bean to more detailed.
Deployment: Remove backend Load Balancer, add hot stand by, remove cloud


How do you guys think?
Senthil Kumar
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 13, 2006
Posts: 264
If you look at the Marking section, it is clearly mentioned that we have to pass every sections and below they have also given how much we have to score to pass each section. To pass deploment section one should score 17 out of 24, so this is where you have failed. But is puzzling me is adding JSPs in class diagrams, and the need for adding bean interfaces class diagrams(may be only the business interface?)


when you really want something, all the universe always conspires in your favour.<br /> <br />SCJP1.5-77%<br />SCWCD-89%
Krzysztof Koziol
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Posts: 133

Class diagram: Why do we need remote interfaces? Will our system be accessed from outside the application server where it was deployed?

Deployment diagram: Taking into consideration FH assignment I think we should not add any sophisticated components/nodes just app server and db server.
Will Myers
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2009
Posts: 325

If you look at the Marking section, it is clearly mentioned that we have to pass every sections and below they have also given how much we have to score to pass each section. To pass deploment section one should score 17 out of 24, so this is where you have failed


No they don't. In Factory Homes it says this:

Marking
The marking for this assignment is described below. You will receive a single score for parts 2 and 3 of the exam.
Below are the sections of the assignment and points available per section. Minimum score to pass the exam is 114. We will only post a pass or fail. If you fail, we will let you know which sections need improvement so you do not have to focus on all sections with your re-submission.

Points
Component Diagram = 40
Class Diagram = 40
Deployment Diagram = 24
Interaction Diagrams = 16
Risk & Mitigation List = 16
Part 3 Short Answer = 24
Total = 160



I beleive the new assignments are different though.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
will myers wrote:
If you look at the Marking section, it is clearly mentioned that we have to pass every sections and below they have also given how much we have to score to pass each section. To pass deploment section one should score 17 out of 24, so this is where you have failed


No they don't. In Factory Homes it says this:

Marking
The marking for this assignment is described below. You will receive a single score for parts 2 and 3 of the exam.
Below are the sections of the assignment and points available per section. Minimum score to pass the exam is 114. We will only post a pass or fail. If you fail, we will let you know which sections need improvement so you do not have to focus on all sections with your re-submission.

Points
Component Diagram = 40
Class Diagram = 40
Deployment Diagram = 24
Interaction Diagrams = 16
Risk & Mitigation List = 16
Part 3 Short Answer = 24
Total = 160



I beleive the new assignments are different though.


This is correct. I have same statement in my assignment.
Will Myers
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2009
Posts: 325

I currently have my assignment in grading and it is also Factory Homes....this thread is making me worried
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
will myers wrote:I currently have my assignment in grading and it is also Factory Homes....this thread is making me worried


Just relax. There's always something to learn.

And please. Share opinions about my fixes. Even if i pass.. i wan't to know how to make my submission better.
Nilessh Ganu
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 22, 2009
Posts: 100
Jari Timonen wrote:Class diagram: Added JSP's, remote interfaces for session beans, Added more detail to one pattern
Component: Split JSP's and Managed Bean to more detailed.
Deployment: Remove backend Load Balancer, add hot stand by, remove cloud


How do you guys think?


Though I have not cleared the Part 2 exam yet, I feel:
Component Diagram changes look good as it is better to show jsps and Managed beans in separate boxes.
What do you mean by Added remote interfaces for session bean ? Do you mean you added required methods/apis to beans that were missing previously ?



Nilesh
SCJP SCWCD OCMJEA
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Nilessh Ganu wrote:
Jari Timonen wrote:Class diagram: Added JSP's, remote interfaces for session beans, Added more detail to one pattern
Component: Split JSP's and Managed Bean to more detailed.
Deployment: Remove backend Load Balancer, add hot stand by, remove cloud


How do you guys think?


Though I have not cleared the Part 2 exam yet, I feel:
Component Diagram changes look good as it is better to show jsps and Managed beans in separate boxes.
What do you mean by Added remote interfaces for session bean ? Do you mean you added required methods/apis to beans that were missing previously ?




I had JPS's in logical boxes AND managed beans in logical boxes. I will split them into more detailed logical boxes.

Only adding interfaces with methods (had methods already in implementations). Not adding anything to existing classes/implementations. Just showing the obvious - which is interface.. maybe i'll change remote to local interface.

Luay Abdulraheem
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 18, 2011
Posts: 65
In Component diagram, did you use Cade's <<uses>> strategy , or Required/Provided Interface strategy ?


SCJP, SCWCD, OCMJEA, OCEEJBD, OCEJPAD, TOGAF® 9 Certified, OCEJWSD
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Luay Abdulraheem wrote:In Component diagram, did you use Cade's <<uses>> strategy , or Required/Provided Interface strategy ?


I used <<uses>>, no I did not use Required/Provided Interface strategy.
Youssef Ben Kaddour El Wazzani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 41
Jari Timonen wrote:While waiting for email, i'm not going to waste time. Even if i pass. I really wan't to know what went bonkers.
...


Well Jari, your case is still confusing, it's true that you shouldn't waste time waiting, but as side note, don't forget that the deadline has being delayed to 1 October(approximitly three month from now).


Questions (24 maximum) ................ 24 ....... 100 %
Class Diagram (40 maximum) ............ 27 ....... 67,5 %
Component Diagram (40 maximum) ........ 30 ....... 75 %
Deployment Diagram (24 maximum) ....... 9 ....... 37,5 %
Interaction Diagrams (16 maximum) ..... 16 ....... 100 %
Technical Risks (16 maximum) .......... 11 ....... 68,75%


From your score, your deployment diagram is clearly the one to blame.

But still, i never heard about eliminatory section score ! And couldn't find reference on that, the only knowen info is about the passing score (114 for our case), i currently have my assignment in grading, as i see it now, i'm in big trouble.

Thank you for sharing,
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Got email from OCP team:
Dear Jari,

We are sorry for the confusion.

We are checking on this with our assessors and revert you in 3-4 working days time.

Regards,
OCP Team


Some more waiting.

But meanwhile. Suggestions will be helpful
balaji sengeni
Greenhorn

Joined: Feb 10, 2005
Posts: 1

FYI: below is my friend's part 2 - assignment marking description (points available per section with a minimum score per section if it is a required section to pass)

Minimum score to pass the exam - 114 (tentatively set)


---- ---- ---- ---- Points ---- Minimum Pass

Component Diagram ---- 40 ---- 26
Class Diagram ---- 40 ---- 26
Deployment Diagram ---- 24 ---- 17
Interaction Diagrams ---- 16 ---- 0
Risk & Migration List ---- 16 ---- 0
Part 3 Short Answer ---- 24 ---- 17
Total 160

My friend downloaded the assignment last week and the above description is mentioned in that.
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
balaji sengeni wrote:FYI: below is my friend's part 2 - assignment marking description (points available per section with a minimum score per section if it is a required section to pass)

Minimum score to pass the exam - 114 (tentatively set)


---- ---- ---- ---- Points ---- Minimum Pass

Component Diagram ---- 40 ---- 26
Class Diagram ---- 40 ---- 26
Deployment Diagram ---- 24 ---- 17
Interaction Diagrams ---- 16 ---- 0
Risk & Migration List ---- 16 ---- 0
Part 3 Short Answer ---- 24 ---- 17
Total 160

My friend downloaded the assignment last week and the above description is mentioned in that.


Like said, my assignment does not have this.
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
Please share your experience when you've got the answer. My assignment is also in grading since 7 weeks and I also didn't have such criterias as minimum number of points in some sections.
I don't think it's fair to change the rools during the game.
Krzysztof Koziol
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 19, 2006
Posts: 133

I would say is very unfair. I've downloaded my assignment several months ago and I also didn't have such criterias. New criterias should only apply to assignments in which they were mentioned.
Ranganathan Kaliyur Mannar
Bartender

Joined: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 1076
    
  10

My assignment also did not have any minimum criteria for individual sections...this is making me worried...and in our hurry to meet the August deadline, many of us probably did not give enough importance to all sections... (yah the deadline has been changed now - but many people like me submitted the assignment earlier to that )...


Ranga.
SCJP 1.4, OCMJEA/SCEA 5.0.
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
Yes that's exactly it.
It's strategically different to have overall a good feeling to achieve 114 point or to make additionally sure
you pass 4 sections with minimum number. I have been working for my assignment for only 4 weeks, as I downloaded it
only at the beginning of April and then I saw the August (now postponed to the October) rool, so I worked faster to have sometime to correct my essay and didn't pay much attention to have each section very smart.
I can only understand the minimum number of points for the Part 3, because if you can't answer the questions or your answers don't match your essay, then it was probably not your work.
Youssef Ben Kaddour El Wazzani
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 20, 2011
Posts: 41
Thank you balaji for the info ,

In the "Scoring Policy" founded in the Oracle Guidelines page, we can see:
The passing scores provided on the Oracle Certification Program website are for informational purposes only. Oracle does not recommend an exam preparation strategy targeting the passing score, because passing scores are subject to change without notice.


Anyway, i too didn't have any infos about minimum score for sections, and i did focus on some .
In the other hand this make me wounder , what will happen if someone got an eliminatory(<17) score in the Part 3 Short Answer ?
Will Myers
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 05, 2009
Posts: 325

In the "Scoring Policy" founded in the Oracle Guidelines page, we can see:

The passing scores provided on the Oracle Certification Program website are for informational purposes only. Oracle does not recommend an exam preparation strategy targeting the passing score, because passing scores are subject to change without notice.



There's a big difference in changing the scoring policy on the informational website and changing the scoring policy on the assignment you have just paid $300 for. If they can change the scoring policy, can they decide to change the domain model without telling you? If you were taking an exam and the pass mark changed halfway through, you would be pretty annoyed especially if the exam company had added a time constraint to your preperations.

They should honour the scoring policy that is set out on the assignment each person is given (you may be able to tell that my assignment is currently being graded and this whole issue may become a lot more important for me )
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
What they do, is not smart at all : they put people into pressure with August deadline, let people wait more than 6 weeks previuosly announced when downloading the assignment, then they adjust the scoring system a.s.o. I can't daily read their information page

They can also change the passing score f.e. to 155 if the day of grading is an even day
Bhanu Prakash Gopularam
Greenhorn

Joined: May 09, 2006
Posts: 19
Hi Jari Timonen,

How did you receive your grading?

1) Oracle communicated this info to you by email OR

2) Were the results updated in Oracle website? if so, could you provide the website info.

I am also waiting since 7 weeks for the results and no communication from Oracle yet. Could you tell me whether you received results as mentioned in option (1) or (2) above.

Thanks,
Bhanu


SCEA 5 certified
Jari Timonen
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 230
Ny email.

Ok They have changed the scoring system:


lease note if a person fails any of the required sections Component, Class, Deployment or Question, then it is an automatic failure regardless of the final score.

Points Minimum Pass Score Received
Component Diagram 40 26 30
Class Diagram 40 26 27
Deployment Diagram 24 17 9 (failed required section)
Interaction Diagrams 16 0 16
Risk & Mitigation List 16 0 11
Part 3 Short Answer 24 17 24

As per the assessor's comments you have failed required section on Deployment Diagram.

We appreciate your understanding on this.

Regards,
OCP Team




Now. Please help me with Deployment diagram.
Vadym Ba
Greenhorn

Joined: Apr 08, 2011
Posts: 29
If I were you, I wouldn't accept such an answer or would at least insist on the second try for free.
Scoring system is a part of the requirement and shouldn't be (or even is not allowed to be) changed after downloading the assignment.
They clearly resently added the additional requirement (I downloaded my assignment on April 3 and didn't have it). They changed it even after you sent them the requirement because they haven't even adjusted the failure email providing the reason for failing.
One pays together 600 dollars for part 2 and 3 not for such jokes
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
subject: Failed although enough points