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Key Press Pressure / Typing Pressure software

Gaurav Wadhwani
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is there any software which has can measure the keyboard typing pressure? If a java based software is available

Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

Given that keyboards aren't, in general, pressure sensitive: no.


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Akhilesh Trivedi
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Typing pressure or typing speed? For pressure, software alone won't do!


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Maneesh Godbole
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    8

You can try spreading a layer of something like play dough or kneaded flour on your keyboard, type on it and then measure the depth of each impression. That should give you a scientific data for your calculations


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Gaurav Wadhwani
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Thank you everyone for replying. I wanted to do a project on measuring key dynamics to authenticate the user...without pressure I dont think its possible

fred rosenberger
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  16

it most likely is possible, but you would need special hardware to do it. it's like saying "I want my convection oven to tell me the windspeed of the air inside it". Unless you have the proper sensor there, it doesn't matter what you do, you can't get the data.

There may be such a keyboard out there somewhere, or you may have to fabricate your own. The former is probably expensive, and the latter is probably more than you really want to do.


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Gaurav Wadhwani
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There is such a keyboard made my microsoft in 2009, which i just found. But, i want to do something without the use of special device, else this security measure would be restricted to a very small set of users.
Manoj Kumar Jain
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You don't want to use a special hardware for this purpose. I am wondering if a software can measure this attribute (Pressure)
It will be great if you can invent such software..


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Will Myers
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maybe you could do something with a webcam that works out the pressure based on how far/fast the key is pressed...
Bear Bibeault
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  67

I'd consider a web cam "special hardware".


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Manoj Kumar Jain
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If we just keep our normal keyboard in X-Rays then we might be able to detect it. because as user press the key X-rays passing that way will be interrupted and we can measure the no of x-rays crossed. I hope rays will not be considered as a hardware..
fred rosenberger
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  16

Manoj Kumar Jain wrote: we can measure the no of x-rays crossed...

That won't give the force, but the distance and/or velocity.
Manoj Kumar Jain
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fred rosenberger wrote:
Manoj Kumar Jain wrote: we can measure the no of x-rays crossed...

That won't give the force, but the distance and/or velocity.


In High school physics I read that force=weight*velocity/time and pressure is force/area.
Yes yes yes.. finally we got a scientific solution to the problem.
But we need a veteran in physics as well...
fred rosenberger
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  16

Force is Mass time Acceleration. And you could calculate the acceleration from a video, you don't know the mass of anybody's finger or of a key...and the springs on each keyboard that provide a resistant force are also going to vary, so it may be hard to figure out from just a video.
Manoj Kumar Jain
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fred rosenberger wrote:Force is Mass time Acceleration. And you could calculate the acceleration from a video, you don't know the mass of anybody's finger or of a key...and the springs on each keyboard that provide a resistant force are also going to vary, so it may be hard to figure out from just a video.


You seems to be one of the good student in physics in school...
Maneesh Godbole
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    8

Manoj Kumar Jain wrote:If we just keep our normal keyboard in X-Rays then we might be able to detect it. because as user press the key X-rays passing that way will be interrupted and we can measure the no of x-rays crossed. I hope rays will not be considered as a hardware..

X Rays? What if the user hits the X key? Won't this X cancel the other X, sort if like an interference pattern?
Gaurav Wadhwani
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Manoj Kumar Jain wrote:If we just keep our normal keyboard in X-Rays then we might be able to detect it. because as user press the key X-rays passing that way will be interrupted and we can measure the no of x-rays crossed. I hope rays will not be considered as a hardware..


How is x-ray not considered as extra hardware?

Tina Smith
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    5

You'd be better off trying to analyze the pattern with which the user types the keys. ie. is there always a long break between two certain keys, keys are typed quickly in repetition, time between shift and the key, which shift (left/right) was pressed..etc.
I have no idea how similar different user's typing patterns are. Since we're all making the same motions (assuming the same keyboard layout) I'd assume they'd be fairly similar.


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Gaurav Wadhwani
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Tina Smith wrote:You'd be better off trying to analyze the pattern with which the user types the keys. ie. is there always a long break between two certain keys, keys are typed quickly in repetition, time between shift and the key, which shift (left/right) was pressed..etc.
I have no idea how similar different user's typing patterns are. Since we're all making the same motions (assuming the same keyboard layout) I'd assume they'd be fairly similar.



This is what i had thought and to only differentiate, the pressure sensitiveness could be one way. Else this method, is quite similar for most of us.
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

In all seriousness, I like Fred's idea about the video camera. Everybody has a webcam these days, and although he's right you couldn't measure actual force, you may be able to find velocity and other position- and time-related statistics by tracking individual fingers, and I imagine those would be some pretty good metrics in and of themselves.
Gaurav Wadhwani
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Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:In all seriousness, I like Fred's idea about the video camera. Everybody has a webcam these days, and although he's right you couldn't measure actual force, you may be able to find velocity and other position- and time-related statistics by tracking individual fingers, and I imagine those would be some pretty good metrics in and of themselves.


Try using the webcam of your laptop to focus on the keyboard - You wont be able to! Its infeasible!
Ernest Friedman-Hill
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  34

So, you need two laptops. Or a separate camera on a cable. Or a little mirror at a 45-degree angle.
Bear Bibeault
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  67

Or use the interceptors that the government has implanted in your eyes!
Pat Farrell
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    5

I think you really need a Microsoft Kinect. They have released the API to talk to it. You could write code to measure the position and movement of the fingers. It would be cool.

Probably useless in the real world, but for a class project, reality has little to do with it.
Gaurav Wadhwani
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Thank you Farrell, but i need something that can be put to use by most of us. Dont think there is a solution for this. I have to change the topic.
Akhilesh Trivedi
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Gaurav Wadhwani wrote: ...i need something that can be put to use by most of us.


What use the pressure-sensing keyboard would do?

Gaurav Wadhwani
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Posts: 68
Akhilesh Trivedi wrote:
Gaurav Wadhwani wrote: ...i need something that can be put to use by most of us.


What use the pressure-sensing keyboard would do?




See, there are different parameters i need for making the profile f users....and i dont have sufficent ones...and pressure is an important one.
Henry Wong
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  40



Gaurav Wadhwani wrote:Thank you everyone for replying. I wanted to do a project on measuring key dynamics to authenticate the user...without pressure I dont think its possible


Gaurav Wadhwani wrote:
Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:In all seriousness, I like Fred's idea about the video camera. Everybody has a webcam these days, and although he's right you couldn't measure actual force, you may be able to find velocity and other position- and time-related statistics by tracking individual fingers, and I imagine those would be some pretty good metrics in and of themselves.


Try using the webcam of your laptop to focus on the keyboard - You wont be able to! Its infeasible!

Gaurav Wadhwani wrote:
Akhilesh Trivedi wrote:
Gaurav Wadhwani wrote: ...i need something that can be put to use by most of us.


What use the pressure-sensing keyboard would do?

See, there are different parameters i need for making the profile f users....and i dont have sufficent ones...and pressure is an important one.




Hate to point out the obvious... but since (1) the purpose is to authenticate the user, and (2) there was brainstorming to use the camera for this .... Why can't you just use the camera on the user? Isn't the human face a pretty good form of authentication?

Henry


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Gaurav Wadhwani
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I believe Face recognition isnt a good technique for security related area. As face keeps changing, what is someone has changed their expressions, wears specs, twins, aging etc.There was this seminar at my college on it, I dont remember the name of the person, he had worked on FR. He said, what we test with our algorithms is on the training data ! And the accuracy was about 90% for the best algorithm keeping aside light fluctuations and others i mentioned. FR has to travel long.

Again, I know there are flaws to the one we are discussing but its comparitively much newer. But as i mentioned, no extra Hardware. Otherwise getting pressure sensitive keyboard is the easiest!
fred rosenberger
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  16

Do you have any evidence that pressure would be consistent across time? I know that when I get mad, I tend to pound the keys a little harder (ok, a LOT harder) than when i am calm...Could a person's emotional state impact the results enough to skew your data?
Gaurav Wadhwani
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fred rosenberger wrote:Do you have any evidence that pressure would be consistent across time? I know that when I get mad, I tend to pound the keys a little harder (ok, a LOT harder) than when i am calm...Could a person's emotional state impact the results enough to skew your data?



I already said there are flaws, and it will only serve in addition to other techniques. And I think some IEEE paper says they have obtained a much higher accuracy with pressure
Henry Wong
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Gaurav Wadhwani wrote:I believe Face recognition isnt a good technique for security related area. As face keeps changing, what is someone has changed their expressions, wears specs, twins, aging etc.There was this seminar at my college on it, I dont remember the name of the person, he had worked on FR. He said, what we test with our algorithms is on the training data ! And the accuracy was about 90% for the best algorithm keeping aside light fluctuations and others i mentioned. FR has to travel long.

Again, I know there are flaws to the one we are discussing but its comparitively much newer. But as i mentioned, no extra Hardware. Otherwise getting pressure sensitive keyboard is the easiest!



Oh. I'm sorry. I was under the impression, from the discussion, that the conclusion was that it was not possible. If this conclusion hasn't been drawn yet, then please ignore me -- the discussion so far (on using video to calculate pressure) has been very interesting.

As a side note, the x-ray discussion is probably a dead end. Users tend to not like to be irradiated when they are typing...

Henry
fred rosenberger
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  16

A quick google search showed there ARE some prototype keyboards that are pressure sensitive...depending on your definition. They don't seem to report "this key was pressed with .37 PSI", but rather "the key has been depressed to pressure level 6".

But again, it requires special hardware. If all you have is a barometer, you can't really measure the height of a building...
Akhilesh Trivedi
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Joined: Jun 22, 2005
Posts: 1527
fred rosenberger wrote:Do you have any evidence that pressure would be consistent across time? I know that when I get mad, I tend to pound the keys a little harder (ok, a LOT harder) than when i am calm...Could a person's emotional state impact the results enough to skew your data?

I agree. Also if I am sitting very close to AC-window or in cold, my fingers tend to freeze while if I am away from it and in warm/normal, I can hit keys with ease.
Akhilesh Trivedi
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Gaurav Wadhwani wrote:
See, there are different parameters i need for making the profile f users....and i dont have sufficent ones...and pressure is an important one.


Not pressure on sensitive keyboards but I have heard of driver-seats in modern cars that senses your style of sitting (the exact term is 'bottom print') and tries to identify you. Guess, the systems are nearly 98% accurate on this.
 
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