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Moving from learning Python to using it in the enterprise?

 
chris webster
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Good to see Python getting some attention here on JavaRanch.

I'm looking at learning Python in my limited spare time, as I really like the clarity, power and flexibility of what I've seen of the language so far. But I still don't have much of a handle on how it could be/is being used in the "enterprise".

There are lots of great materials for learning Python - and I'm sure "Hello! Python" is another example - and of course many of the wider OO principles and design patterns etc are equally useful in Python. But there doesn't seem to be much material around to explain this transition from small-scale scripting or relatively limited web apps (Django, GAE etc) to the equivalents of what people are doing these days with JEE, while there seems to be a lot more visible expertise and supporting material around for Java EE.

So do the authors have any advice or comments on how to approach this transition?

Of course, it might be that Python makes the whole "enterprise" thing much simpler than JEE anyway - which would be really great!
 
ryan headley
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I really don't see why enterprise versus non-enterprise matters...Python can do it all. Hell, PHP can do it all...

For me Java seems to almost "encourage" -- for lack of a better term -- developers to throw the kitchen sink at a problem and seems to over complicate things for the sake of academics. (Again, it just seems that way and you can do that with any language, but in my experience thus far, these issues run rampant in Java).
 
chris webster
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ryan headley wrote:I really don't see why enterprise versus non-enterprise matters...Python can do it all. Hell, PHP can do it all...

For me Java seems to almost "encourage" -- for lack of a better term -- developers to throw the kitchen sink at a problem and seems to over complicate things for the sake of academics. (Again, it just seems that way and you can do that with any language, but in my experience thus far, these issues run rampant in Java).

My sentiments exactly, Ryan - glad to hear I'm not the only one!

But in a working culture of "enterprise" this and "enterprise" that, where a lot of architecture and design decisions seem to be dictated a priori by the JEE framework that architects are all too familiar with, rather than the business requirements, I'd like to know more about how Python solves the equivalent problems in the real world. How many "kitchen sinks" do we need to implement for ourselves in Python (or PHP etc), and how many can be eliminated because Python does not require them in the first place? Do we have to re-invent the whole Java-oriented "enterprise architecture" industry to work with Python, or are there short cuts?
 
ryan headley
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I guess that In my mind, that's part of the problem. I feel that much of the "kitchen sink" in the java world is and was unnecessary in the first place. Perhaps a more direct question of industry equivalents/what in JEE maps to what in Python, if that's what you are after.

The reason I left Java was that the problems we were solving never really changed much, but we kept coming up with more and more complex ways to solve them. I found myself sifting through so many layers of abstraction and XML and some developers academic excercise in "elegance" that I found myself often too far removed from the original problem domain to be able to accomplish anything at all.

I feel the same way about Zend PHP. Someone took a simple tool and tried to turn it into Java when a light framework like CodeIgniter would be more than most would need. I've rambled enough...
 
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