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Is how Managers do everywhere?

Amandeep Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 844
Basically they will shield you from super manager, users and meetings.

Example-

User A calls Manager A to know how to do Save? Manager A says i will get back to you. Manager A calls Developer A, can you let me know answer to this question, after he gets answer.Manager A calls back User A to let know.

Now User A doesn't knows Developer A. This scenario not only applies to Users, they may apply to super bosses in IT department too.

This is what happens then:

1) So when there is a company party, your manager know everyone and you yourself only know Manager.
2) Super manager don't know how much work you did or you contributed, so slim chances of promotion unless your immediate manager want to promote you.


Let me know how this works in every company. Is Manager right? What developer can do to claim his credit for knowledge he helped?


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Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24183
    
  34

I'm still laughing at the notion of anybody calling a manager at my company to ask them a support question. Where I work, we have help desks, and we have support people who (theoretically) answer those questions.

I think the very basic bones of your complaint are valid -- managers do have more visibility to ur-managers, and laterally across an organization. But if your company literally works exactly as you describe it, then no, it's not normal. Your work environment is toxic, and -- unless you're a brand-new or contract employee, for whom such treatment is to be expected, I'd say get the hell out.

I'm moving this to "Jobs Discussion", because it's way too serious for MD.


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Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61106
    
  66

Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:I'm still laughing at the notion of anybody calling a manager at my company to ask them a support question.

Yeah, once I hit that, the rest made no sense. Why would anyone call a manager? TILT.


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Amandeep Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 844
In small companies, no helpdesk support is available except helpdesk ticket system & users can directly ask Manager (Project Lead).
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24183
    
  34

Amandeep Singh wrote:In small companies, no helpdesk support is available except helpdesk ticket system & users can directly ask Manager (Project Lead).


I can't speak for Bear, but Managers and Tech Leads are very different roles where I work. I can see where combining them into one person could make for a nightmare. I think perhaps you'd enjoy working for a larger company.
Amandeep Singh
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 17, 2008
Posts: 844
I see that Project Lead's do call themselves Project Managers too. And project manager boss is also Project Manager.
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

It's normally the job of a manager to shield his reports from people higher in the hierarchy than the manager. But what you described? Not usually.
Anayonkar Shivalkar
Bartender

Joined: Dec 08, 2010
Posts: 1505
    
    5

Amandeep Singh wrote:1) So when there is a company party, your manager know everyone and you yourself only know Manager.
2) Super manager don't know how much work you did or you contributed, so slim chances of promotion unless your immediate manager want to promote you.

Well, this is the reason why there are parties in company. The very basic agenda is - you should be knowing for whom you are working with, and those people should know you. If you have a good manager, then he/she would introduce you to those folks at party. If you have awesome manager, then chances are he/she has already involved you in communicaiton with them, and you and those folks know each other at least by name. This happens provided a subordinate reallly does a good work.

Things are quite easy with super manager. The reason being - you both are employee of same company. So, chances are that your super manager knows you already(unless, he/she has 10 managers with him, each with 30-40 subordinates). Otherwise, again, your manager is supposed to do the introductions.

However, if it's been more than 3-4 months since you joined the company, and there's no single meeting between you and your super-manager (not one-on-one, but at least a team meeting - say your team and super manager, or a buch of new joininees and super manager), then personally, I think this is not a very nice work culture.

Amandeep Singh wrote:What developer can do to claim his credit for knowledge he helped?

It is not always practical/feasible to get recognition from outside the team, but if a developer is really doing good job, and even his/her own manager is not recognizing it (during appraisals etc.), then again, I would say it is not a good place to work.


Regards,
Anayonkar Shivalkar (SCJP, SCWCD, OCMJD, OCEEJBD)
Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4650
    
    5

Consider the manager as a screen, like a window screen.

The job of the manager is to protect (screen) their staff from the stuff falling down from the upper managers.
And, the manager is a screen to keep the stuff being thrown around by the staff from getting through to the upper managers.

Watch the scene in Blues Brothers where the band is playing in a country bar full of drunks throwing bottles.
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 369
LOL!

Yeah I can understand O.P. his story.

This is my situation. We used to have 4 programmers and 1 manager. The manager got transferred to the sales department. One programmer got promoted to project leader, but after 3 months he got fired. Now we are with 3 people. My two other colleagues now alss have another job description. One is now temporary manager, the other is now called project leader. I am the only one with the title programmer. I am working on a program with a sort of internal client, let us call him Simon. Now I give you an example what is happening.

I am working on the program. I have an idea that could improve the process. I tell Simon, Simon says good idea, do it. Then the next morning I am in the office. The 'temporary manager' asks me about my program. (Which he in principle has not much to do with.) I tell him about the idea. He says, we must discuss this with Simon. I say, I already have discussed this yesterday. (Thinking: Mind your own business.) One hour later same process. The new called 'Project Leader' ask me ... et cetera.

There now is one programmer, and two people who are trying to make career by 'playing to be the boss' over me.

But do not worry! I manage! (Myself.)
Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6661
    
    5

I'm still laughing at the notion of anybody calling a manager at my company to ask them a support question. Where I work, we have help desks, and we have support people who (theoretically) answer those questions.


Yeah, once I hit that, the rest made no sense. Why would anyone call a manager? TILT.


This is quite common in certain situations. In companies that help maintain small applications for clients, the manager becomes the contact point for 10-20 apps. No one would know how the apps work and any documentation would be incomplete or stale. Such companies usually bar the devs from talking to the customer directly. The roles of team lead / manager usually mutates into one and tech leads are quite rare. The customers talk to the managers / contact points to get things done. This includes support queries.

Is the manager's behavior normal ? It depends. If the manager did this to make himself seem more knowledgeable, you have a problem. May be he / she was taking your inputs to solve a bigger problem that needed more context ? I guess only the OP can answer that question.


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Jimmy Clark
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 16, 2008
Posts: 2187
2) Super manager don't know how much work you did or you contributed, so slim chances of promotion unless your immediate manager want to promote you.


This is why it is very important to develop a strong and positive relationship with your manager in this context. Whatever the title is, e.g. project manager, architect, director, supervisor, coordinator, is trivial. The most important aspect is the direct link between the individual that is assigning work and the individual doing the work. Ideally, it is best to work directly with the manager on a day-to-day basis. Things get a bit more difficult when there are other manager types involved. The worst scenario is when you report to a manager that is not your direct manager. These types of fragmented managerial styles make it difficult to establish a strong relationship with your direct manager, i.e. the individual responsible for your salary, promotions, training and development, etc. Too much of this may indicate that it is time to look for other employment, which is usually a good thing.
 
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