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Duo deal, me and my girl?

Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 422
    
    1
There are these headhunters, they find my CV on LinkedIn for example. I do not need a job. My daughter is searching for months to find a job in administration though.
So I told them, ok, find my little girl a job, and I'll come along too. The headhunter was furious! Like I just tried to bribe him, or blackmail him with naked pictures of his wife and me.
Is this really that much not done? I thought it was a nice and clever idea!
Aniruddh Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Posts: 275

Reactions depend on the people you are dealing with.
Unlike machines and java programs, people and not predictable
Forget the experience and move on


Anrd
"One of the best things you could do is to simplify a larger application into a smaller one by reducing its process and complexity - Fowler"
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 422
    
    1
Aniruddh Joshi wrote:Forget the experience and move on


Oh, I am not shocked. But I really thought this was an inventive idea! But it does not seem to work then.. I am more depressed with the little one being unemployed!
William P O'Sullivan
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 28, 2012
Posts: 859

Jan!!

You just burned a bridge.

The best approach to this type of situation is to get in there first, then ask HR or check postings for your girl.
Of course, it's a gamble that they not have any.

If you know the company, do a job search for your area and in administration.
Then you can kill two birds with one stone.

Good luck,

WP
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40


Jan de Boer wrote:There are these headhunters, they find my CV on LinkedIn for example. I do not need a job. My daughter is searching for months to find a job in administration though.
So I told them, ok, find my little girl a job, and I'll come along too. The headhunter was furious! Like I just tried to bribe him, or blackmail him with naked pictures of his wife and me.
Is this really that much not done? I thought it was a nice and clever idea!


Jan de Boer wrote:
Aniruddh Joshi wrote:Forget the experience and move on


Oh, I am not shocked. But I really thought this was an inventive idea! But it does not seem to work then.. I am more depressed with the little one being unemployed!



I would be real careful here.... because what you are suggesting is arguably nepotism. Technically, it isn't nepotism because you are not the hiring manager, but you are certainly trying to force the hand of the hiring manager.... so, I can totally understand why the recruiter doesn't want to be involved.

Henry


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Aniruddh Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Posts: 275

You're right in most ways Henry, even I would not do that.
But people tend to do that when it comes to getting employment to their close ones.
And in a way Jan was sacrificing his own current job.
This could have benifitted the recruiter if both him and his daughter were good employees.

In fact, it is considered totally legal to ask your current employer to hire your spouse/partner if you are a good employee.
Referring a candidate and Nepotism have a thin line between them which is only taken care of by your intent
Matthew Brown
Bartender

Joined: Apr 06, 2010
Posts: 4422
    
    8

Henry Wong wrote: but you are certainly trying to force the hand of the hiring manager....

Isn't that just called "negotiation" though? Morally speaking, how is it all that different to "yes, but I'll want another 10,000 and a company car"?
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18662
    
    8

My son the university professor tells me that this sort of thing is fairly common in his line of work, where it's called the "Two Body Problem". If you want to move to work at another institution, it's not unusual to try to get your spouse a position at that same institution.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40


BTW, I didn't really mean to imply that this was nepotism -- in fact, I regret the wording a bit. Nor did I mean to imply what is the norm.

All I am saying is that, based on people's opinions, I can easily see how a recruiter wouldn't want to touch this -- particularly if he/she has never encountered such a request before.

Henry
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4753
    
    7

Jan de Boer wrote:I thought it was a nice and clever idea!
You might think it "clever", as in inventive, but the recruiter probably thought it was kind of a "wise guy"-ish move to make what he really wanted (getting you hired by his client) contingent upon something he had no prior interest in (getting your girl hired). Honestly, if I were the recruiter, I would find that a bit unsavory as well and would probably pass on hiring you at all.


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Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30764
    
156

It could also be interpreted that your daughter isn't qualified in her own right.

Also, many companies have policies about employees dating, hiring immediate relatives etc. Hiring you two together would be a conflict of interest there.


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Steve Fahlbusch
Bartender

Joined: Sep 18, 2000
Posts: 570
    
    7

Jan,

There was absolutely nothing wrong in what you did.

In fact, i think it was a wonderful idea.

If the headhunter had a problem, then it was his problem (or he wasn't that good).

Many of my software engineers who wanted to work together, made the requirement of headhunters that they wanted to work together. The good ones found places for both.

-steve
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4753
    
    7

Steve, Jan mentioned that his daughter had been looking for a job in Administration, not development. I can understand how a headhunter might be fine working with a group of software developers who want to work together but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
Aniruddh Joshi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jul 29, 2008
Posts: 275

Junilu Lacar wrote: I can understand how a headhunter might be fine working with a group of software developers who want to work together but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

In fact some firms are ok if your relative works in a different department but do not allow both of you to work in the same team/department.
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4753
    
    7

Aniruddh Joshi wrote:In fact some firms are ok if your relative works in a different department but do not allow both of you to work in the same team/department.
Yes, even at the large multinational company I work for, that happens. One of my colleagues, who is a manager, had his wife apply for a job with another department and she got it. However, to Jeanne's point earlier, she got the job solely on the basis of her own merits, not because she was my colleague's wife. I believe my company does have a rule that says a relative can't be hired in to the same department. My colleague was a contractor before he got hired on full time. I'm sure that if he had made his acceptance of an offer for a full-time position contingent on his wife getting hired as well, his offer would have been immediately withdrawn. Maybe in other countries it's different but certainly in the US and Canada, these are the norms.
Jan de Boer
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Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 422
    
    1
Junilu Lacar wrote:I were the recruiter, I would find that a bit unsavory as well and would probably pass on hiring you at all.


Do not forget one thing: I do not need the recruiter, the recruiter needs me. So if he passes me, I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with my daughter having so much trouble, like anyone nowadays, to get a job.

Also the recruiter was irritated with my motivation. If I would be interested, I am interested in the salary, the location, the technical content. Two of those are relatively simple parameters, of the third he has less knowledge than I. I am not interested in 'the culture of the company' and those soft skill parameters, which he thinks is important. That always is the discussion I have with these people. And then: Question: 'So you would just change jobs to help your daughter?'. Answer: 'Yes, I think she is more important than my career, and my loyalty to hér is bigger than to my current employer, so.., why not!'. Different priorities.
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 422
    
    1
Something to add: My daughter and I would not have to work for the sáme company. Actually my daughter would find that a bit awkward, though needs break laws sometimes. I just ask the recruiter to use his contacts to help my daughter, then I help him to fill in a vacancy that is hard to fill for him. On the other hand, they are really satisfied with my work here, so I break my own possibilities here... Nevertheless, the girl is still more important.
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4753
    
    7

Sometimes it's all in the sales pitch. You may have been better off taking a more exploratory tone rather than a demanding tone. "Ok, I'll consider that job but you have to find something for my daughter first." is very different from "I'd really like to help my daughter get settled into a job before I consider moving to another company. Is there any way you can help me find employment for her first? Then I'd be free to consider other offers from companies that are interested in my qualifications." Same ask but very different nuance.
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4753
    
    7

Jan de Boer wrote:Do not forget one thing: I do not need the recruiter, the recruiter needs me. So if he passes me, I have no problem with it. I do have a problem with my daughter having so much trouble, like anyone nowadays, to get a job.

Also the recruiter was irritated with my motivation. If I would be interested, I am interested in the salary, the location, the technical content. Two of those are relatively simple parameters, of the third he has less knowledge than I. I am not interested in 'the culture of the company' and those soft skill parameters, which he thinks is important. That always is the discussion I have with these people. And then: Question: 'So you would just change jobs to help your daughter?'. Answer: 'Yes, I think she is more important than my career, and my loyalty to hér is bigger than to my current employer, so.., why not!'. Different priorities.

If I may be brutally honest, this kind of attitude is a turn off. That your priority lies with your daughter is not the issue. That's fine and understandable. The thing about him needing you rather than the other way around, about not being interested in soft skills or "the culture of the company", and not being considerate of what others feel are important, all these point to you being a "diva" or at least that's what it will seem to people who talk to you. More and more, software development is becoming a team activity, where soft skills and the ability to collaborate are just as, if not more, important than technical skills. Unless they plan on sticking you in a back room and throwing in some "specs" while they wait for executable code to be spat back out, then you're going to have to demonstrate that you are a team player, that you can collaborate well with people to get a job done. If you are happy where you are now, then just tell them straight up. Don't demand things in return for "doing them a favor" and expect them to bow to your greatness. That just isn't cool. Again, no offense intended; I'm just saying.
Jeanne Boyarsky
author & internet detective
Marshal

Joined: May 26, 2003
Posts: 30764
    
156

Well said Junilu.

Another take on "the recruiter needs me". Really? Last I saw there were plenty of unemployed people and people who are open to changing jobs. The recruiter needs someone, not specifically you.
 
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