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Internet Java?

Jay Orsaw
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Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 356

I figured I'd ask this question here, because I'm new to web programming... I took an HTML class that was okay, HTML to me was really easy... I really don't like tags either.... But I've heard about JSF and JSP/Servlets and I was reading up on how JSF is apparently a "Framework" where JSP works with Servlets? I really don't know anything about them, so I would appreciate any input.... I want to start doing some web programming, but I would like to be doing it in Java, so I figured they would be what I am looking for... I was reading up on something for HTML5 vs Java FX for "RIA" which I also am not sure what is different about that...

I know when you run an Applet you need to run the JVM which imo needs load time and such, but does JSP, JSF, or Java FX run like Flash sites and how normal html sites run or do you add HTML with these? I really would like to learn more about all of them, so any help would be appreciated(Links, comments, etc)...


Thanks,

~JO
Pablo Abbate
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Joined: Aug 06, 2012
Posts: 30

You can check here It's a very good framework, and have a lot of documentation. Even you can try a showcase.


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Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Jay Orsaw wrote:I figured I'd ask this question here, because I'm new to web programming... I took an HTML class that was okay, HTML to me was really easy... I really don't like tags either....

Then web programming is unlikely to be your cup of tea. Even using generators such as GWT, if you're not intimate with HTML, you're going to fail.

Bnut I've heard about JSF and JSP/Servlets and I was reading up on how JSF is apparently a "Framework" where JSP works with Servlets?

Servlets and JSP are the way in which server-side Java code generates web pages to be sent to the browser. JSF is a framework built on top of Servlets/JSP that provides a "component-based" approach. JSF has many people who like it, but there are legions (like me) who think it's a Rube Goldberg abomination.

There are may other frameworks based on JSP/Servlets; Spring MVC and Struts, for example. And some, not based on Servlets at all, like the Play! framework.

GWT is a system where you write your site completely in Java and it generates the HTML and JavaScript for you. THis sounds most like what you are after, but you'll be lost unless you understand what it's generating.

I was reading up on something for HTML5 vs Java FX for "RIA" which I also am not sure what is different about that...

JavaFX is sort of "the new Swing".

I know when you run an Applet you need to run the JVM which imo needs load time and such, but does JSP, JSF, or Java FX run like Flash site

Applets run on the client in the browser JVM. That's a dead end. Don't go there. Servlets/JSP run on the server to create the pages that are sent to the client.

If you want to understand what JSP is all about, read this article.


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Jay Orsaw
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 356

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:I figured I'd ask this question here, because I'm new to web programming... I took an HTML class that was okay, HTML to me was really easy... I really don't like tags either....

Then web programming is unlikely to be your cup of tea. Even using generators such as GWT, if you're not intimate with HTML, you're going to fail.


I mean it's okay, I really like how java is layed out more than other languages I've used, but I understand it and can d it.

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:Bnut I've heard about JSF and JSP/Servlets and I was reading up on how JSF is apparently a "Framework" where JSP works with Servlets?

Servlets and JSP are the way in which server-side Java code generates web pages to be sent to the browser. JSF is a framework built on top of Servlets/JSP that provides a "component-based" approach. JSF has many people who like it, but there are legions (like me) who think it's a Rube Goldberg abomination.

There are may other frameworks based on JSP/Servlets; Spring MVC and Struts, for example. And some, not based on Servlets at all, like the Play! framework.

GWT is a system where you write your site completely in Java and it generates the HTML and JavaScript for you. THis sounds most like what you are after, but you'll be lost unless you understand what it's generating.


GWT sounds interesting, maybe I will look at that... I wont have an issue understanding what it generates, so I can do everything in java then huh? Do you have a site for this?


Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:I was reading up on something for HTML5 vs Java FX for "RIA" which I also am not sure what is different about that...

JavaFX is sort of "the new Swing".


Yeah but apparently it's supposed to be used for the internet?

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:I know when you run an Applet you need to run the JVM which imo needs load time and such, but does JSP, JSF, or Java FX run like Flash site

Applets run on the client in the browser JVM. That's a dead end. Don't go there. Servlets/JSP run on the server to create the pages that are sent to the client.

If you want to understand what JSP is all about, read this article.


what do you mean by "dead end, don't do there?"
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

Applets? Instead of "dead end", one could be a little more charitable and call them a "niche market". In any case the area in which they are useful and practical is extremely small.

Back in the old days (in the last century) Java books used to talk about applets in the first few chapters. If you have one of those books then bung it directly into the nearest recycling box and get a newer one.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Jay Orsaw wrote:GWT sounds interesting, maybe I will look at that... I wont have an issue understanding what it generates, so I can do everything in java then huh? Do you have a site for this?

I'm assuming you can type "GWT" into google as easily as I can.

Yeah but apparently it's supposed to be used for the internet?

If you have a very very loose definition of "use".

what do you mean by "dead end, don't do there?"

Applets are to the modern web what vacuum tubes are to my iPhone.
Mike Dow
Greenhorn

Joined: Aug 18, 2012
Posts: 1
If you're new to web development I'd recommend trying JSPs. They are a lot simpler then JSF and would probably be a good place to start playing around with server side code.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Mike Dow wrote:If you're new to web development I'd recommend trying JSPs. They are a lot simpler then JSF and would probably be a good place to start playing around with server side code.

Except, of course, that JSPs are useless without servlets. And as already mentioned, for many of the framework choices, a sounds knowledge of JSP and servlets is a pre-requesite, along with HTML, JavaScript and CSS.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 38107
    
  22
Paul Clapham wrote: . . . Java books used to talk about applets in the first few chapters. If you have one of those books then bung it directly into the nearest recycling box . . .
Museum, surely
Jay Orsaw
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 356

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Mike Dow wrote:If you're new to web development I'd recommend trying JSPs. They are a lot simpler then JSF and would probably be a good place to start playing around with server side code.

Except, of course, that JSPs are useless without servlets. And as already mentioned, for many of the framework choices, a sounds knowledge of JSP and servlets is a pre-requesite, along with HTML, JavaScript and CSS.


I know HTML, JavaScript and CSS, I don't like tags really is all. So I will most likely look s at JSP. Is Hibernate another example of a framework?

Also JavaFX, is it only "The new Swing?" How involved will it be with the internet?

Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60822
    
  65

Jay Orsaw wrote:Is Hibernate another example of a framework?
Hibernate is an ORM tool.

Also JavaFX, is it only "The new Swing?" How involved will it be with the internet?

Not very.
Jay Orsaw
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 356

Bear Bibeault wrote:
Jay Orsaw wrote:Is Hibernate another example of a framework?
Hibernate is an ORM tool.

Also JavaFX, is it only "The new Swing?" How involved will it be with the internet?

Not very.


Hmm I see then... So JSP wold be the root to go? IT mixes Java with HTML and JS?

I'm looking to go get the learnnowJava vids, I believe I saw your name on some of the vids? I also notice a lot of people going 4 jQuery thoughts on that? I'm not 100% when I will do internet coding as I am working now on a program that will be both client-server 4 a company. I'm really wanting to have the best path 4 the next wave of coding, and be at the on the right path, I don't want to learn something that will die in a few years . Even now doing Java SE I only do what I need. I want a wide range of skills, and thats one reason I want to get the vids from learnnowJava. Also like I said before HTML is pretty easy and it's different than programming. I like to do algorithm and solve things, Web pages IMO are different.


Also what's ORM?
Steve Fahlbusch
Bartender

Joined: Sep 18, 2000
Posts: 557
    
    7

Also what's ORM?


might i suggest a google search?
 
I agree. Here's the link: http://aspose.com/file-tools
 
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