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pillars of java

sneha ulhe
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Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 45

can anyone please tell me which are three minor pillars of java?


Sneha
[OCJP 6]
Jeff Verdegan
Bartender

Joined: Jan 03, 2004
Posts: 6109
    
    6

I've never heard of any pillars of Java, but if they exist, I'm sure Google can tell you about them.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 39436
    
  28
Wine women and song?
Winston Gutkowski
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Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 8016
    
  22

Campbell Ritchie wrote:Wine women and song?

I would have thought they'd major pillars, not minor ones.

Winston


Isn't it funny how there's always time and money enough to do it WRONG?
Articles by Winston can be found here
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
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Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11422
    
  16

a quick google for "minor pillars of java" turned up:

result #1 - some C# page
result #2 - a page that talks about pillars of OOP, but it only listed TWO minor pillars
result #3 - THIS THREAD.

I would say that is a fairly strong indication that this is some made up term by someone pulling your leg, or someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.


There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Campbell Ritchie
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Joined: Oct 13, 2005
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  28
I can’t answer that without consigning myself to MD.
Wendy Gibbons
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Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Posts: 1107

perhaps it was an article about coffee and he got confused
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 39436
    
  28
At the present there would only be one thing better than coffee: beer.
sai rama krishna
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Joined: May 29, 2009
Posts: 271
>>>Wine women and song?


I heard earlier like women, wine, wealth 3 w's. Not sure which context
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18670
    
    8

Campbell Ritchie wrote:Wine women and song?


That became "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" quite a few years ago, you know.
Campbell Ritchie
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 39436
    
  28
Right. That’s it. MD.
Vishal Shaw
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 09, 2012
Posts: 179
Campbell Ritchie wrote:Wine women and song?


don't forget coffee.

Aaaw, that makes it four pillars


Programming is about thinking, NOT coding
sneha ulhe
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 45

actually I was searching for minor pillars of OOPS...
sneha ulhe
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 45

I got it..
that are persistency,strong type casting and concurrancy.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14274
    
  21

sneha ulhe wrote:I got it..
that are persistency,strong type casting and concurrancy.

What a strange answer. Where did you find this answer?

Persistency, "strong type casting" (whatever that means) and concurrency are three things which do not have anything to do specifically with Java or with object oriented programming. You can have all these things in a non-Java, non-OO programming language.

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Winston Gutkowski
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  22

Paul Clapham wrote:That became "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" quite a few years ago

I think you're confusing OP's question with the three pillars of Ian Dury...

Winston
Matthew Brown
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Joined: Apr 06, 2010
Posts: 4422
    
    8

Winston Gutkowski wrote:
Paul Clapham wrote:That became "sex, drugs, and rock and roll" quite a few years ago

I think you're confusing OP's question with the three pillars of Ian Dury...

Not pillars. Three "reasons to be cheerful", surely?
Juliana Schmidt
Greenhorn

Joined: Oct 19, 2012
Posts: 1
sneha ulhe wrote:can anyone please tell me which are three minor pillars of java?



Encapsulation, Polymorphism, and Inheritance.
Winston Gutkowski
Bartender

Joined: Mar 17, 2011
Posts: 8016
    
  22

Juliana Schmidt wrote:Encapsulation, Polymorphism, and Inheritance.

Hmmm. I say again: these are minor pillars?

@Juliana: In general, these are requirements of Object-Orientation, so I would certainly hope that they'd be "pillars" of any language that calls itself 'Object-Oriented'.

Winston
Tony Docherty
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Joined: Aug 07, 2007
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  49
Wow, an attempt at a serious answer. Is that allowed in MD?
Winston Gutkowski
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  22

Tony Docherty wrote:Wow, an attempt at a serious answer. Is that allowed in MD?

My bad. Didn't realize the thread had been moved.

Winston
Mandar Khire
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 11, 2007
Posts: 501

can anyone please tell me which are three minor pillars of java?

My question is how moderators not shift this question in 'Beginning java' or 'java in general'? or question is satisfy three minor pillars of 'meaningless Drivel' to keep in 'meaningless Drivel'?
Now surely reader get hidden question in above sentence...each one get different answer of that 'may be'.

Millions saw the apple fall, but Newton asked why.
Jay Orsaw
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Joined: Jun 14, 2011
Posts: 356

waffles, lasagna, and tuna fish sammich.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
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Posts: 14274
    
  21

Mandar Khire wrote:My question is how moderators not shift this question in 'Beginning java' or 'java in general'?

It was moved from one of those forums to Meaningless Drivel, because the whole questions is strange and meaningless. As if Java (or OO programming) has "three minor pillars" that everyone agrees on. The word "minor" also implies that there might also be "major" pillars. What would those be?

It sounds as if someone has been doing a course on Java which had "three minor pillars" mentioned in the course material somewhere, and the poster thinks that these are universal truths that any experienced Java programmer could just rattle off immediately.

You don't learn programming Java by remembering lists of abstract concepts by heart. You learn Java by doing it, and by making sure you understand how the language works.
Tushar Bhaware
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Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

The 4 major pillars of OOP are
Abstraction
Encapsulation
Inheritance
And Polymorphism

These above 4 features are called major pillars because a language has to implement all these features to be called as Object Oriented Language.

The 3 minor pillars of OOP are
Strong Type Casting
Persistence
Concurrency

These 3 features are called minor pillars because it is not necessary for language to implement these to be a Object Oriented Language.It is up to language designer to decide which features will be supported and which won't.

Remember you have not inherited earth from your ancestor,you only borrowed it from your descendants.
Tushar Bhaware
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Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

I wonder how so many bartenders and sheriffs and ranch hand don't know this or don't accept this. This is one of the most commonly asked interview question.
This is what how they start teaching object oriented programming by introducing major and minor pillars.
Maneesh Godbole
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Joined: Jul 26, 2007
Posts: 10451
    
    8

Tushar Bhaware wrote:I wonder how so many bartenders and sheriffs and ranch hand don't know this or don't accept this. This is one of the most commonly asked interview question.
This is what how they start teaching object oriented programming by introducing major and minor pillars.

Maybe because
Jesper de Jong wrote:
You don't learn programming Java by remembering lists of abstract concepts by heart. You learn Java by doing it, and by making sure you understand how the language works.





[How to ask questions] [Donate a pint, save a life!] [Onff-turn it on!]
Tushar Bhaware
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Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

Maneesh Godbole wrote:
Tushar Bhaware wrote:I wonder how so many bartenders and sheriffs and ranch hand don't know this or don't accept this. This is one of the most commonly asked interview question.
This is what how they start teaching object oriented programming by introducing major and minor pillars.

Maybe because
Jesper de Jong wrote:
You don't learn programming Java by remembering lists of abstract concepts by heart. You learn Java by doing it, and by making sure you understand how the language works.





I am sure that's a great way to learn but for freshers like us, we have to know this answers because these are the questions interviewers ask in interview.
Peter Rooke
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Joined: Oct 21, 2004
Posts: 804

we have to know this answers because these are the questions interviewers ask in interview


How long have you been juggling?
Oh, about six years.
Can you handle three balls, four balls, and five balls?
Yes, yes, and yes.
Do you work with flaming objects?
Sure.
.. . knives, axes, open cigar boxes, floppy hats?
I can juggle anything.
Do you have a line of funny patter that goes with
your juggling?
It's hilarious.
Well, that sounds fine. I guess you're hired.
Umm ... Don't you want to see me juggle?
Gee, I never thought of that. [Taken from Peopleware - http://dev.co.ua/docs/Peopleware.pdf]


For development pillars, how about - control, communication, common sense!


Regards Pete
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24187
    
  34

I like ter use two pillars when I's a-sleepin'. Three pillars would jest be too many.


[Jess in Action][AskingGoodQuestions]
Tushar Bhaware
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

Peter Rooke wrote:
Well, that sounds fine. I guess you're hired.
Umm ... Don't you want to see me juggle?
Gee, I never thought of that.
For development pillars, how about - control, communication, common sense!


That was hilarious. I hope this juggling will end soon for me. I am stuck at a company where i find no challenges and i am looking for new company.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14274
    
  21

Tushar Bhaware wrote:I wonder how so many bartenders and sheriffs and ranch hand don't know this or don't accept this.

That's because the question and answer are nonsense. In particular the "minor pillars". Strong type casting, persistence and concurrency are not concepts that follow from object oriented programming. These things existed long before object oriented programming, and OO programming didn't change these things in any way.

Tushar Bhaware wrote:These 3 features are called minor pillars because it is not necessary for language to implement these to be a Object Oriented Language.It is up to language designer to decide which features will be supported and which won't.

But I can mention 100 other random things that are not necessary for an object oriented language. Are those then 100 other "minor pillars"? In other words, the three minor pillars are just three random features. You could equally well mention many other features, and the answer would be just as valid.

This is what how they start teaching object oriented programming by introducing major and minor pillars.

That's exactly what I said. There is some course at some institute that has these lists as answers to these questions. The students learn these lists by heart and score points by showing that they've learned these lists. In the real world, remembering those lists is totally useless and does not help you in your job as a Java programmer at all.

Tushar Bhaware wrote:This is one of the most commonly asked interview question.

If an interview consists of asking you to recite a list of things that you learned by heart, then the interviewer is doing a bad job, because a question like that is useless for assessing if a candidate is good at programming.

As if someone is fit for the job if he knows the magic password.
Tushar Bhaware
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

Jesper de Jong wrote:
If an interview consists of asking you to recite a list of things that you learned by heart, then the interviewer is doing a bad job, because a question like that is useless for assessing if a candidate is good at programming.
As if someone is fit for the job if he knows the magic password.


I am glad you said that the interviewer is doing a bad job because i lost an opportunity at C-DAC(one of India's finest institution) because interviewer asked me the same question about minor pillars and i was unaware of it, i never read it in any programming book and i read a quite few books. He said at that time,if you don't know minor pillars then you don't know java and concluded my interview by asking that only question.
I am really happy that i didn't loose opportunity because of my fault.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
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Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11422
    
  16

Tushar Bhaware wrote:The 4 major pillars of OOP are...


Do you have a documented source for this statement? I mean, I could just as easily state that the major pillars are

1) Case Sensitivity
2) Semi-colon at the end of a line
3) don't use "goto" statements
4) comment your code

Why is your list more authoritative than mine?

Further, the original post was specific to JAVA, not to OOP.

And finally, I have been on scores of interviews, and have never been asked this question once.
Tushar Bhaware
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

Hello sir,
I think you got angry with one of my post but i want to let you know that i was not questioning or challenging your knowledge. I know that you along with other bartenders,sheriffs and ranch hands are far better than me when it comes to Java. I was just wondering,you may call curious because it's really a commonly asked question in interview here. Saying that,

fred rosenberger wrote:
Do you have a documented source for this statement?

No,Sir. I don't have any documented proof for this if you are looking major pillars and minor pillars from any book or JLS or Java Docs. But if you google major pillars of OOP. You will find many websites answering that question.
fred rosenberger wrote:
Further, the original post was specific to JAVA, not to OOP.

You are right sir. But she changed it in her second post in this topic. I was answering to that.

fred rosenberger wrote:
And finally, I have been on scores of interviews, and have never been asked this question once.

I must say you are very lucky sir that you found very good interviewer. I didn't had such luck.
I have posted one of my experience in my above post where i lost an opportunity because at that time i didn't know answer to that question because i never read it before. After that interview, i googled it and then never failed interview over that question.

But judging from responses from many scholar's here ,i guess there are no such things like minor and major pillars.
Jesper de Jong
Java Cowboy
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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 14274
    
  21

Tushar, I don't think Fred is angry at you, he probably thinks just like me that it's a bad question with bad answers for an interview, and he's trying to show why the question and answers are bad. Don't take it personally

Good luck with future interviews!
Ernest Friedman-Hill
author and iconoclast
Marshal

Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 24187
    
  34

It occurred to me that this might be called cargo cult interviewing: a practice in which both the interviewer and the interviewee know the questions and the correct answers, but neither have any idea what they mean, or whether indeed they have any meaning at all. A sad, sad situation indeed.
Tushar Bhaware
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

Jesper de Jong wrote:Tushar, I don't think Fred is angry at you, he probably thinks just like me that it's a bad question with bad answers for an interview, and he's trying to show why the question and answers are bad. Don't take it personally

Good luck with future interviews!

That makes me feel better.
Thank you sir.
Ernest Friedman-Hill wrote:
It occurred to me that this might be called cargo cult interviewing: a practice in which both the interviewer and the interviewee know the questions and the correct answers, but neither have any idea what they mean, or whether indeed they have any meaning at all. A sad, sad situation indeed.

What to do sir? We have to find a good paying job and one more sad fact is that there are institutes that teaches the same major and minor pillar thing.
Reputed websites like stackoverflow ,roseindia and wiki.answers also back this major-minor theory.
I am glad that i am on JavaRanch.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
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  16

Tushar Bhaware wrote:Hello sir,
I think you got angry with one of my post but i want to let you know that i was not questioning or challenging your knowledge.

I apologize. I did not mean to sound angry.

My point was that anyone can say "This is the answer", but unless you have something to back it up, it is nothing more than an opinion. And opinions are great, but should be presented as such.

I actually appreciate someone challenging my knowledge. Nobody has a lock on being correct 100% of the time, and unless someone challenges me, how will I learn?

Tushar Bhaware
Ranch Hand

Joined: Aug 13, 2012
Posts: 62

fred rosenberger wrote:
I apologize. I did not mean to sound angry.

No need to apologize,Sir. You are not angry is enough for me.
fred rosenberger wrote:
My point was that anyone can say "This is the answer", but unless you have something to back it up, it is nothing more than an opinion. And opinions are great, but should be presented as such.

You are absolutely right,Sir. Answers should be backed up but there are many websites which fuels this ignorance including stackoverflow and roseindia. I am really glad that i came across this question over here,else i would have believed in major and minor thing till i don't know when.
fred rosenberger wrote:
I actually appreciate someone challenging my knowledge. Nobody has a lock on being correct 100% of the time, and unless someone challenges me, how will I learn?

I am glad to hear that everyone here has open mind. I hope to learn much more from you and other's at JavaRanch.

Thanks
 
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subject: pillars of java