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need advice. I am feeling very down. Am I a loser?

Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
I need some advice.I am from India.I work in an MNC in india.I completed BE Computer Science with 57% in 2005. I had joined on merit seat and even the students who joined on donation seats got more percentage than me.After this I did not get a software job because of my low percentage and had to work in BPO for 2.5 years. I wanted to work in software field so started learning Java,quit the BPO job.After being jobless for 8 months I joined a small company as Software Engineer in 2008.Now I have around. 4.5 years of experience in java.I work as Senior Software Engineer.My current salary is RS 50,000 per month. When i think all these things that i had completed BE in 2005 and has progressed only this much till now I feel very down.Am I a loser?
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18829
    
  40

Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:I need some advice.I am from India.I work in an MNC in india.I completed BE Computer Science with 57% in 2005. I had joined on merit seat and even the students who joined on donation seats got more percentage than me.After this I did not get a software job because of my low percentage and had to work in BPO for 2.5 years. I wanted to work in software field so started learning Java,quit the BPO job.After being jobless for 8 months I joined a small company as Software Engineer in 2008.Now I have around. 4.5 years of experience in java.I work as Senior Software Engineer.My current salary is RS 50,000 per month. When i think all these things that i had completed BE in 2005 and has progressed only this much till now I feel very down.Am I a loser?


Hmmm... you wanted to be in the software field. And you are in the software field.... Perhaps it would be a good idea to worry about what you want, than worry about what other's want, or some timetable to satisfy.

Henry


Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Maneesh Godbole
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jul 26, 2007
Posts: 10371
    
    8

This might be a good time for self analysis. If it was me, I would ask myself these questions
1) Does academic qualifications really mean knowledge
2) Is MNC the place I want to be. Besides all the so called glamour and advantage in the marriage market, do MNCs really provide a good conducive atmosphere for personal growth
3) What are my core skills and drawbacks
4) Why are others getting ahead of me? What is it they have that I don't
5) What am I doing to upgrade myself continuously. With a very fast changing field such as software, am I taking enough efforts to keep improving myself?
6) Most important : Am I really cut for the IT field? Am I really enjoying what I do? Do I have really have an aptitude for programming or did I just join it because it was in fashion and everyone else was doing it and the money was good / {insert any other similar reason here}

I would suggest pondering over these questions and coming up with honest answers to yourself.

Remember, you cannot be a loser unless you give up the race. At worst you can make a mistake of participating in the Marathon instead of the 5K run.
Be honest with yourself, keep the faith and keep slugging. Best of luck!


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Prasad Krishnegowda
Ranch Hand

Joined: Apr 25, 2010
Posts: 531

What's your definition of victory?

According to me, you are a winner, not a loser, see the brighter side of it, like, you were able to find a software job with 3 years of your graduation. I am a 2008 Passout, and i have seen few of my friends, who are not able to get it even after 4 years (there might be different reasons, such as recession, more engineers and so on.. ). Today you work in an MNC, as senior software engineer and earn a good amount.

As Maneesh said, only thing you need to worry is, whether are you enjoying what you are now, is the work you are doing today, helping you progress in your career? If answer is Yes, stop worrying about winner or loser an all, just enjoy what you are doing..
Rameshwar Soni
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 03, 2011
Posts: 247
Yes Prasad said it right, What's your definition of victory

At present you are a Senior Engineer and you getting a good salary too, what else you need man ?? If there's some bigger dream in your mind, then that different thing.

I know academic qualification has nothing to do with being a good programmer or engineer, but that's what companies need for promotions, more higher salary etc, strange but that's true.
chris webster
Bartender

Joined: Mar 01, 2009
Posts: 1703
    
  14

Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:I need some advice.I am from India.I work in an MNC in india.I completed BE Computer Science with 57% in 2005. I had joined on merit seat and even the students who joined on donation seats got more percentage than me.After this I did not get a software job because of my low percentage and had to work in BPO for 2.5 years. I wanted to work in software field so started learning Java,quit the BPO job.After being jobless for 8 months I joined a small company as Software Engineer in 2008.Now I have around. 4.5 years of experience in java.I work as Senior Software Engineer.My current salary is RS 50,000 per month. When i think all these things that i had completed BE in 2005 and has progressed only this much till now I feel very down.Am I a loser?

Listen to what the other Ranchers are telling you. You studied CS, presumably so you could get a job in the IT industry, and you have a job in the IT industry, and it sounds like a decent job for somebody with only a few years' experience. If you don't like your job (or salary), think about the kind of job you would like, then go out and try to find a job like that. And if you don't like working in software, that's OK too, but you need to think about what you really want to do, then figure out how to do that instead. Calling anybody a "loser" is all about other people's expectations, not about what that individual actually wants to achieve: you are only a "loser" if you think you are.

Either way, take a look around you, not just in India but in the countries where many Indian MNCs are getting their work from. Here in the UK we have thousands of experienced IT workers who can't find jobs (I'm one of them), and thousands of IT graduates who can't find jobs. You are very lucky that you have managed to secure your place in this industry in India, even if your college grades etc weren't very good. Make the most of that opportunity, or let somebody else do it and find something else that will make you happy instead. Feeling sorry for yourself won't change anything.


No more Blub for me, thank you, Vicar.
Jan de Boer
Ranch Hand

Joined: Dec 10, 2010
Posts: 374
    
    1
Ah, you're never a loser because you hate your job! :-D

In general: Job is just job. It's not the most important thing in your life. We all hate it sometimes. Then go home and forget about it. Never say you are a loser because of your job, never. Too many other things in life.
arulk pillai
Author
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 31, 2007
Posts: 3219
I look at three buckets -- Success, failure, and non-success. Many fall into this non-success bucket as they become complacent and never explore what they are really capable of accomplishing. You hold the key to your career success.


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Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
First of all.Thanks to everyone and to let you all know that I am no more feeling down and as a loser.
Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131

Answer to question from Maneesh Godbole:

1) Does academic qualifications really mean knowledge: I have seen many people with high percentage in acemadics who do not understand programming but they are high in confidence because due to their marks they get placed in good MNCs directly from campus and do not struggle.As a result their confidence level is high.I feel while attempting to change company whether they will still ask for my marks after so many years of experience whether the next comapany will ask me why i have less than 60%.So i feel shy to change companies. but I will try my best to forget about marks and compensate with my knowledge.

2)Is MNC the place I want to be. : Currenly yes until i understand any other option available.

3) What are my core skills and drawbacks
Core skills: ability to work alone with minimal support.
drawbacks: I feel confident if any work is given to me without any support too but I feel nervous and hesitate during demos.

4) Why are others getting ahead of me? What is it they have that I don't:
One of the things they have is confidence because of academedic marks.

5) What am I doing to upgrade myself continuously. With a very fast changing field such as software, am I taking enough efforts to keep improving myself?
I understand that in software field we need to continouly learn new things which have come up and may be read about those on saturday sundays.

6) Most important : Am I really cut for the IT field? Am I really enjoying what I do? Do I have really have an aptitude for programming or did I just join it because
it was in fashion and everyone else was doing it and the money was good / {insert any other similar reason here}
I enjoy programming and completing any task given to me.but i do not enjoy give demos of work.I feel nervousness and tension there.Otherwise i enjoy programming and only other time i feel tension is during near deadlines.

thanks a lot
Ulf Dittmer
Marshal

Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 41835
    
  63
Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:
3) What are my core skills and drawbacks
Core skills: ability to work alone with minimal support.
drawbacks: I feel confident if any work is given to me without any support too but I feel nervous and hesitate during demos.

I don't necessarily see that as a skill. It's very important to recognize when it is more efficient to ask for clarifications or help, both on the technical side and the business side. It may even be that you're asked to implement things that are not possible, in which case you need to challenge the person who wrote up the requirements, or who told you to do something in a certain way. These forums are full of posts where people ask about how to accomplish something that is either impossible or against best practices. So I'd say don't try to work without support - it's too easy for that to result in something that isn't what the customer needs (despite him having said that's what he wanted); or which is technically inferior.


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Joe Harry
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 9382
    
    2

Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:I need some advice.I am from India.I work in an MNC in india.I completed BE Computer Science with 57% in 2005. I had joined on merit seat and even the students who joined on donation seats got more percentage than me.After this I did not get a software job because of my low percentage and had to work in BPO for 2.5 years. I wanted to work in software field so started learning Java,quit the BPO job.After being jobless for 8 months I joined a small company as Software Engineer in 2008.Now I have around. 4.5 years of experience in java.I work as Senior Software Engineer.My current salary is RS 50,000 per month. When i think all these things that i had completed BE in 2005 and has progressed only this much till now I feel very down.Am I a loser?


You have progressed really well despite your low grades in engineering. Be content with what you have. If you compare yourself with others accomplishments, you will never be content with what you have done.


SCJP 1.4, SCWCD 1.4 - Hints for you, Certified Scrum Master
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Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
Thanks Joe and thats a very useful and important advice from Ulf Dittmer. I'll keep that in mind.
Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
I want to know one more thing. If I switch my job, I am thinking that new company again will check my documents and find that I do not have 60% in Engineering (57%), so there can be a problem. I do not know whether my doubt is vaild or not. But before switching company I am having this doubt in mind. Is it so that after 5 years experience in java j2ee new company just sees that work experience and does not bother at all for percentage in engineering?

thanks
vijay jamadade
Ranch Hand

Joined: May 12, 2008
Posts: 241
even after one year experience nobody is nterested in educational details.


Regards, Vijay Jamadade.
( Nothing is Impossible.)
Pushkar Choudhary
Rancher

Joined: May 21, 2006
Posts: 425

Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:If I switch my job, I am thinking that new company again will check my documents and find that I do not have 60% in Engineering (57%), so there can be a problem.

I have lesser % marks in Engineering than yours mentioned above and the degree (although Engg) is not Computer Science or IT.

I've been working in software for more than 6 years (in MNCs) and no one, except in my first job interview, ever asked me why I have lesser than 60% in my Engg. All that the recruiters were bothered about was, whether my skills map well with the job requirements.

Hope that helps.

-Pushkar
Pavan Kumar Dittakavi
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 12, 2011
Posts: 104

Hi Joshi,

You are really missing one thing here. You graduated with 57% and you are now earning 50,000 rupees. There would be very less number of people who would have come this far with that percentage.Please do not miss that. Life does become convoluted sometimes and we miss out on the things that are right ahead of us. If your work really bores you out then try on a new hobby..like playing a guitar

Believe in yourself...

-Pavan.
Andy Jack
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Prasad Krishnegowda wrote:I am a 2008 Passout, and i have seen few of my friends, who are not able to get it even after 4 years (there might be different reasons, such as recession, more engineers and so on.. )


Wow ! Is it really that bad ? 4 years and no job ? How many of your friends are in this situation ?


Java Newbie with 72% in OCJP/SCJP - Super Confused Jobless Programmer.
I am a "newbie" too. Please verify my answers before you accept them.
Sai Surya
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 08, 2006
Posts: 459

Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:If I switch my job, I am thinking that new company again will check my documents and find that I do not have 60% in Engineering (57%), so there can be a problem.


Stop worrying about your marks and polish on your programming skills. Companies only check whether you passed out your graduation or not. I know lot of good programmers without having formal degrees. Passion is important than marks. There is no point in worrying now since you cannot join back engineering and earn 99.99%. Focus on present, improve your technological and analytical skills and try to be a good technical developer.

Good luck!


Sai Surya, SCJP 5.0, SCWCD 5.0, IBM 833 834
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Andy Jack
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Sai Surya wrote:
Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:If I switch my job, I am thinking that new company again will check my documents and find that I do not have 60% in Engineering (57%), so there can be a problem.


Stop worrying about your marks and polish on your programming skills. Companies only check whether you passed out your graduation or not. I know lot of good programmers without having formal degrees. Passion is important than marks. There is no point in worrying now since you cannot join back engineering and earn 99.99%. Focus on present, improve your technological and analytical skills and try to be a good technical developer.

Good luck!


I agree with you. This is what I noticed - If you have "high intelligence or IQ" (you dont have to be einstein though), knowledge of "tools" (language, database, framework etc) , you can get a job easily. There are many job descriptions that see your brains, skills and experience.
Only a few of them ask for your grades. If I was an employer, I would be more interested in what "value" you have rather than some grades and certificates that you earned since kindergarten. If you can do my job and do it well, your grades have no meaning.

Matt Spencer
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 09, 2012
Posts: 9
You know skills aren't everything these days. If these companies have options they aren't always going for the most brightest, if someone else offers the full package(like would you hire an arrogant snob who doesn't work well with others even if they are the most gifted, over an average skilled person who has great teamwork abilities).

Actual workplace skills, you either have them or you don't, and it sounds like you have them, plus experience. At this point I would think it is safe to say you have a good "package" going. You just need to assert yourself and demand yourself for better opportunities.

My philosophy is, If your not learning, your not moving forward. Which means, if you want a better job or position, you got to keep learning, or else you will just keep the same job and do the same things. You have the experience for a resume, which is cool, so why not check your options and look around, there might be some dream job that wants your skills but maybe a little bit more. If your not looking out for these things then you won't know when they come.

Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
Thanks all.Its been clarified that companies do not look for college percentage after few years on programming and only on experience.To answer to a question asked above that do I enjoy programming and whether I love this job.Answer is yes i love doing programming only thing which worries me is pressure.In service industry managers give strict deadlines and although I enjoy doing programming on hearing that there is a demo say after 4 hours to the client, it gives lot of tension. I have been appreciated by my boss that I am a committed resource but I get scolded also from boss who at times saying I dont work aggressively.I try to work fast from my side but still manager says I dont finish work in deadlines.This is the only problem I face dealing with quick work pressure, rest I like programming and feel confident..
Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
I am taking Matt Spencer's advice very seriously that "If your not learning, your not moving forward. Which means, if you want a better job or position, you got to keep learning, or else you will just keep the same job and do the same things"
Andy Jack
Ranch Hand

Joined: Nov 22, 2012
Posts: 257
Satyaprakash Joshii wrote:I am taking Matt Spencer's advice very seriously that "If your not learning, your not moving forward. Which means, if you want a better job or position, you got to keep learning, or else you will just keep the same job and do the same things"


Have you considered doing freelance development online ? If you have some time to spare after work, you could do it. I guess you could learn a lot and use that to switch to another job.
Satyaprakash Joshii
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jun 18, 2012
Posts: 131
Thanks Andy.The suggestion is good. Can one write freelance project also in resume or one has to write only what we have done for some company.I prefer practicing java on weekends and after coming home without any pressure.However reelance development would sure be having deadlines of time. In my office I love programming but only thing that makes me tense is deadines the managers give for work and demos. In office I am tensed by deadlines and once I come home again i will be tensed because of freelancing deadlines...
Patanjali Hardikar
Greenhorn

Joined: Dec 25, 2012
Posts: 2

You cant be a looser. After-all I chose to talk to you as my first ever post :-D

BTW-- 50,000 is by no means less salary for 5 years of Java experience. Its less for 2005 pass outs but you spent 2 years in BPO so consider yourself as 2007 graduate and you'll be okay

Also winner and looser is not determined until the game is over. and its just begun for us. So enjoy. Spend 3 hours everyday here ranting about stuff. and you'll be a genius at java before you know it.
 
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subject: need advice. I am feeling very down. Am I a loser?