wood burning stoves*
The moose likes Meaningless Drivel and the fly likes Daylight Savings Time -- origins and / or meaning??? Big Moose Saloon
  Search | Java FAQ | Recent Topics | Flagged Topics | Hot Topics | Zero Replies
Register / Login
JavaRanch » Java Forums » Other » Meaningless Drivel
Bookmark "Daylight Savings Time -- origins and / or meaning???" Watch "Daylight Savings Time -- origins and / or meaning???" New topic
Author

Daylight Savings Time -- origins and / or meaning???

Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18529
    
  40


Weird discussion of the day. And heck, it's Friday !!

Just had a discussion about Daylight Savings Time, and ... well... I always thought that Daylight Savings Time occurred during the winter (BTW, U.S. specific discussion), after all, there is a lot less daylight in the winter, and hence, you need to shift the amount of daylight to what the society deems as important. ie. to save the daylight for the important stuff.

However, it turns out that I was wrong. Daylight Savings Time is during the summer, when there is plenty of daylight to spare... so this leads to the question, with so much daylight, what is this daylight "savings" supposed to do?

Henry

Books: Java Threads, 3rd Edition, Jini in a Nutshell, and Java Gems (contributor)
Paul Anilprem
Enthuware Software Support
Ranch Hand

Joined: Sep 23, 2000
Posts: 3254
    
    2
Henry Wong wrote:
so this leads to the question, with so much daylight, what is this daylight "savings" supposed to do?
Henry

Save non-renewable energy.


Enthuware - Best Mock Exams and Questions for Oracle/Sun Java Certifications
Quality Guaranteed - Pass or Full Refund!
Ryan McGuire
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 1006
    
    3
During Daylight Savings time, you save an hour's worth of daylight from the morning (when you have to more than you need) until that evening, when you can actually take advantage of it.

As for which one is the "standard"...
It's true that either winter or summer could have been kept as "Standard" and the other one could have counted as "Daylight Saving". In the summer, you're saving some morning daylight, when you have an overabundance, to use that same evening. In the winter you'd be saving some daylight from the evening, when you don't really need much, to use the following morning. It probably just made slightly more sense to go with the terminology where the "saving" and the "using" are in the same day.
dennis deems
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 12, 2011
Posts: 808
Paul Anilprem wrote:
Henry Wong wrote:
so this leads to the question, with so much daylight, what is this daylight "savings" supposed to do?
Henry

Save non-renewable energy.


So we're told, but in fact it doesn't do this: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/11/110311-daylight-savings-2011-time-savings-when-does-spring-forward-nation/
Seetharaman Venkatasamy
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 5575

Henry Wong wrote: what is this daylight "savings" supposed to do?

just to give/save employment. for instance - joda time
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

Well, there's just as much daylight before noon as there is after noon. And if you're a farmer then you get up at dawn and go to bed at dusk and it all works out nicely.

But if you live in a city and work in an office, then your day isn't that symmetrical. Think of "9 to 5" -- notice that there's only three hours before noon and five hours after noon? So there's a lot of daylight hours in the morning which you fritter away by sleeping, if that's your work schedule. But if you redefine "noon" to be "1 pm" then symmetry is restored because now "noon DST" is in the middle of your working day. So you tick off a few farmers who have to start getting up "an hour earlier" to milk their cows, but so what if it allows you to get in a round of golf after work?

It would be simpler if you just switched your work hours to be 8 to 4, and have Letterman come on at 10:30 instead of 11:30, really.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11160
    
  16

Paul Clapham wrote:Well, there's just as much daylight before noon as there is after noon.

That's a neat trick. If I live on the VERY western edge of the Central time zone, how do I get such a dramatic difference from someone who lives on the VERY eastern edge of the Mountain time zone? We may only be a few feet apart, but somehow the sun crosses the meridian for him an hour later than me?


There are only two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

fred rosenberger wrote:
Paul Clapham wrote:Well, there's just as much daylight before noon as there is after noon.

That's a neat trick. If I live on the VERY western edge of the Central time zone, how do I get such a dramatic difference from someone who lives on the VERY eastern edge of the Mountain time zone? We may only be a few feet apart, but somehow the sun crosses the meridian for him an hour later than me?


There's just as much daylight between solar noon as there as after it. (Is what I intended you to interpret that as.) When the clock says 12:00 it isn't necessarily the middle of the day, it's a modified version of that.
Greg Charles
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 01, 2001
Posts: 2840
    
  11

What we need to do is save all the superfluous daylight during the summer, then release it during the winter when we don't have enough. People living near the equator have been doing this for centuries!
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60782
    
  65

I have all those hours of sunlight saved away in a Leyden jar just waiting for the zombie apocalypse.


[Asking smart questions] [Bear's FrontMan] [About Bear] [Books by Bear]
Mike Simmons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 2994
    
    9
Works even better in case of vampire apocalypse.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60782
    
  65

Sigh, "modern" vampires just sparkle when exposed to sunlight, not vaporize into ash like a vampire should.
Mike Simmons
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Posts: 2994
    
    9
Well, I mean real vampires. Duh.
Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

Bear Bibeault wrote:I have all those hours of sunlight saved away in a Leyden jar just waiting for the zombie apocalypse.


Doesn't the temperature of the light increase as you pack in more hours? Or doesn't Gay-Lussac's law apply to light because it isn't made of atoms?
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60782
    
  65

Remember, light is both a floor wax and a dessert topping, er, rather both a wave and a particle!
Bert Bates
author
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 8803
    
    5
Our horses (from Iceland) grow shaggy coats when the daylight hours get shorter - regardless of the climate they live in. Since we live in California we have to shave them in the winter or they get too sweaty.

This picture isn't of the same horse, but this is how dramatic the change is:



[Thumbnail for summerWinter.jpg]


Spot false dilemmas now, ask me how!
(If you're not on the edge, you're taking up too much room.)
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 60782
    
  65

Mike Simmons wrote:Well, I mean real vampires. Duh.

Thank goodness!

Paul Clapham
Bartender

Joined: Oct 14, 2005
Posts: 18541
    
    8

Bear Bibeault wrote:Sigh, "modern" vampires just sparkle when exposed to sunlight, not vaporize into ash like a vampire should.


What's up with that? Some secret military weaponization project?
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18529
    
  40

Paul Clapham wrote:
Bear Bibeault wrote:Sigh, "modern" vampires just sparkle when exposed to sunlight, not vaporize into ash like a vampire should.


What's up with that? Some secret military weaponization project?


On the other hand, vampires can now be kill by the sun's power, even at night, with ultraviolet rounds ...

Henry
Pat Farrell
Rancher

Joined: Aug 11, 2007
Posts: 4646
    
    5

fred rosenberger wrote: If I live on the VERY western edge of the Central time zone, how do I get such a dramatic difference from someone who lives on the VERY eastern edge of the Mountain time zone? We may only be a few feet apart, but somehow the sun crosses the meridian for him an hour later than me?


Timezone geography has only a little bit to do with the sun, and a lot to do with politics. And yes, the politicians make the sun cross very quickly in some areas.

Even the creation of daylight "savings" time is political. It may have made some sense when we worked in factories that had no internal lighting, but Edison made that concept fall from fashion. Once we have lightbulbs, at most the savings can only be outside. Indoors you just turn on the switch. While there may be some theoretical energy savings, the simple facts are that light bulbs are a very small amount of a developed country's energy bill.

The politicians have tried to have "daylight savings" all year, and in the US at least, the voters went nuts. Seems that with DST, the kids were standing on the corners waiting for school buses in the dark. We can't have that. Our kids are too dumb to recognize what a big yellow school bus is without the sun.
dennis deems
Ranch Hand

Joined: Mar 12, 2011
Posts: 808
Pat Farrell wrote:Seems that with DST, the kids were standing on the corners waiting for school buses in the dark. We can't have that. Our kids are too dumb to recognize what a big yellow school bus is without the sun.


It's worse even than that. When we "spring forward", they are in the dark again.
fred rosenberger
lowercase baba
Bartender

Joined: Oct 02, 2003
Posts: 11160
    
  16

Pat Farrell wrote:the kids were standing on the corners waiting for school buses in the dark. We can't have that. Our kids are too dumb to recognize what a big yellow school bus is without the sun.

kids still stand outside in the dark.

And the issue with that is not kids recognizing the bus...it's the idiot drivers who go too fast when it's dark and hit people.
Martin Vajsar
Sheriff

Joined: Aug 22, 2010
Posts: 3606
    
  60

Of course time zones are political. Take China - it spans five time zones in astronomical sense, yet they use one time zone for the entire country: http://www.timeanddate.com/time/map/
 
wood burning stoves
 
subject: Daylight Savings Time -- origins and / or meaning???
 
Similar Threads
Calendar.getTime() not properly reporting DST?
Calendar Method
Time zone
Getting System time
Java6 gives wrong file timestamp during daylight savings on windows