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My project gets serious?

thejwal pavithran
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Joined: Feb 11, 2012
Posts: 118
Hey guys im kind of a beginner in jee.. i started developing an enquiry management system after hearing some requirements of an automobile shop which wanted to stop using excel sheets for organizing enquiries they receive from potential customers...i have used html forms to enter data and all processing is done by servlets(i dont yet know jsps..) the back end is hsqldb and the ide i use is eclipse ... now the company manager was sort of impressed when i showed them the partially completed app..now they are serious about it and wants to replace their excel system with my app...
but my question is this :
how do i give the working code to them?

i mean i have developed this as a web application as i did not have any knowledge of swing gui..

im completely clueless..i cant ask them to run my code from eclipse..is uploading the whole thing in a java webserver the only way to do this?..this is a completely single user app without any login/register or password stuff...

so basically i want some way to give the app to the company so that they can run it by clicking on any icon ..any idea on how to do this?

also im not sure if im posting this in the right forum


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Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
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Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61180
    
  66

Perhaps they can run a Tomcat instance on their own system and just use the app locally?


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Hikari Shidou
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Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Posts: 88
If you're a beginner, please, tell them you're not ready for this work and must learn a lot yet, and suggest them to hire a proper professional.

We're already full of beginners creating worst quality softwares and denigrating software development professionals.

You don't just need to deploy the software. You'll need to maintain it. They most probably will ask you later to make changes on it. A professional would need to handle config management, change management, do proper elicitation and requirements gathering to make sure he understands customer and users and they understand him.

This car shop just understand nothing about computers, they are simple Windows-Office users, and got amused by a software you created just for curiosity and learning, and weren't able to see you're unable to construct a proper high quality one.

Trust me, it will be trouble in near future, there will be problems and either they'll stick with it thinking that all softwares have same problems or just pay somebody else to do the job again, and to import data from yours!

It's better just to help them find a good and experienced Software Engineer to create and maintain it, or find an existing software that would match their needs. Keep learning, develop softwares for yourself first, read a lot about software development, and you'll become qualified for future jobs.
Joe Areeda
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Joined: Apr 15, 2011
Posts: 316
    
    2

I agree with Hiraki, to a point.

Writing software is not like whittling a whistle. When you give a program to someone you making a commitment to fixing bugs, training people and adding features as they become needed. A program is only done when people stop using it.

There are some lessons to learn and many of them are learned the hard way but I don't think that means you need to give up and pay someone big bucks to take your prototype to production. But you need to be aware that demoing a couple of web pages is a lot different than maintaining a valuable database.

First of all, I think the concept of a single user JEE app is a bit weird are you sure you want it to be a single user app? Once you deploy it people will be able to connect to it with any browser on the network.
If you want it to be single user only you'll have detect if anyone else is using it and block others.

Typically these things are deplyed in a container like Tomcat or Glassfish and a few others. I find Tomcat easier to deploy. But no matter which one you choose you will probably want to set up a server behind a firewall and all the computes on that LAN will be able to access it.

There's a long way to go from a demo inside Eclipse to a usable product but don't let that scare you. It is worth learning.

Joe


It's not what your program can do, it's what your users do with the program.
thejwal pavithran
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Joined: Feb 11, 2012
Posts: 118
The automobile shop im talking about is not a huge multi billion enterprise..its a small two room building doing medium size business.
they can continue using their excel sheets and use my software as back up..if they had the ability to hire a fully fledged IT firm to do this for them, they would have done it a long time back..and im not getting paid to do this..this is for my learning that i am doing this..they generate data which fits into 4 excel sheets every month..
for the first time on the ranch, i disagree with the comments meant to help or advise me..

"Trust me, it will be trouble in near future" that would be when the peak learning is..this is a chance(golden) i am using to learn and improve..

"You don't just need to deploy the software. You'll need to maintain it. They most probably will ask you later to make changes on it. A professional would need to handle config management, change management, do proper elicitation and requirements gathering to make sure he understands customer and users and they understand him. "

I would love to do this..these are challenges to look forward to and not limiting factors..

Keep learning, develop softwares for yourself first, read a lot about software development, and you'll become qualified for future jobs. This is exactly what i am doing

We're already full of beginners creating worst quality softwares and denigrating software development professionals. I read this over and over and still it makes no sense..denigrating software development professionals?? come on really that is lame..

"Perhaps they can run a Tomcat instance on their own system and just use the app locally?" This are the sort of answers i am looking for..
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61180
    
  66

Be sure to set things up such the app is not available outside of their local network. (That's a system config thing.)
thejwal pavithran
Ranch Hand

Joined: Feb 11, 2012
Posts: 118
The company doesnt use any complicated networks...they all use stand alone systems..i just want this app to be run on a single system. So there is no worry about somebody else accessing their database..
Hikari Shidou
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Posts: 88
OK, do as you wish, just try your best and make sure they know you are learning the basics yet.

Beginners denigrate us because their software has little quality and are very cheap. Many users buy them because of price (or get them for free, because their authors themselves think they are worth nothing), and think all softwares are like that. They are unable to compare. And good professionals lose space, because they charge more and users think their software will have same quality.

Well, answering your question. To deploy it, export it as war in eclipse, and put the war in tomcat's webapps folder, near ROOT folder.
Jayesh A Lalwani
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Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2368
    
  28

Whoa hold on now. The whole industry is full of "beginners" creating "piece of crap" software. These beginners end up making lot of money too. If I remember my history correctly, DOS 1.0 was the biggest piece of crap. That didn't stop the IBM team in charge of putting together the PC to pick DOS created by piece of crap programmers over the their own professional engineers

In my own case, the first company I joined had fortran programmers working there for 5 years who were telling the management that it was impossible to get stock feeds on the users desktop. Then this beginner programmer came in and wrote a C++ program that got the feed to the MDs desktop. 17 years later I realize what a piece of crap that design was. But goddammit it worked, and it changed the world

Facebook was written by a beginner programmer. Face book changed the world. Twitter has changed it's architecture what.. 3 times now?twitter changed the world. Remember hotmail? It was a piece of crap web email client. It changed the world.

The end user doesn't really care about how crappy the design is. They care about meeting their needs. If the software works, and meets the business needs, it's fine. Not doing something because you think you are too young or your design is crappy is antithetical to the nature of this industry. Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone learns from their mistakes. Thats how beginners become professionals. If there were no beginners there won't be any "good professionals"
Joe Areeda
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Joined: Apr 15, 2011
Posts: 316
    
    2

We should also remember that there is plenty of crapware produced by highly trained and overpaid professionals
thejwal pavithran
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Joined: Feb 11, 2012
Posts: 118
Hikari Shidou wrote:OK, do as you wish, just try your best and make sure they know you are learning the basics yet.

Well, answering your question. To deploy it, export it as war in eclipse, and put the war in tomcat's webapps folder, near ROOT folder.


Hey thanks..I will also keep all your points in mind while writing my code..
Gopakumar Naryanan
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Joined: Jan 15, 2011
Posts: 72

Appreciate your spirit .. Wish you all success .. Keep up the good work.


Thanks & Regards
Gopakumar
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4462
    
    6

thejwal pavithran wrote:
We're already full of beginners creating worst quality softwares and denigrating software development professionals. I read this over and over and still it makes no sense..denigrating software development professionals?? come on really that is lame..


Now, now, no need to start that kind of talk. English is not the first language for many here so give others some slack. I kind of get where that statement was going; I have worked with a lot of code that was supposed to be written by "professionals" but looked more like the work of fly-by-night backyard coders. Poorly written code is never good for anyone and it makes life particularly difficult for people whose job is to support and fix it.

However, given what you have shared about your particular situation, I think it would serve you and your "client" well to set each other's expectations before you continue with the engagement. Make them aware of the level of commitment you are willing to assume and the level of expertise that you bring to bear (or lack thereof). If you are a good business person, you may even try to negotiate some kind of compensation for your services.


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Junilu Lacar
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Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4462
    
    6

Jayesh A Lalwani wrote:Facebook was written by a beginner programmer.
I'm not sure that's true ... I'm sure Mark would beg to differ. Young, yes; but beginner? I doubt it. Even if it wasn't the prettiest code in the world, the kind of things they did there, even in the first few incarnations, were hardly beginner material or output.
Hikari Shidou
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Joined: Jan 22, 2013
Posts: 88
Sorry if I offended anybody, I didn't mean that!

I've seen, lots and lots of times, users buying bad quality software. Yes, bad programmers are able to get a lot of money, more than good developers, but that happens when they fool their user or when that's all that's available (Microsoft didn't have a OS for 8086 when they sold it to IBM, they bought QDOS only after that, and IBM bought it because their 2 major requiremets for their PC was PC using cheap peace of technology and these peaces should be ready available for shopment: they wanted to release PC ASAP and sell it cheap).

Trust me, most users aren't able to evaluate the quality of a software. Even we, software engineers, have a full specialization for Quality Assurance. It may work for some months, but years later be unable or too expensive to be changed to fit new needs. And software very often is used way longer than first expected by its developer or user said he's use it.

And it's not just quality and readability of code. It's about planning and documenting the development, its architeture, how easy it is to be changed without adding new errors, how easy it is to be tested.

Some times it's better to leave the software with an error than fixing it and risking adding new ones!

It's very easy to see people that don't document what was the context and what made them choose to do something the way it was done, or not even use a repository to keep track of changes.

I'm sure everybody saw users complain about software. Users like to get anything that fits their basic needs, even more if it's cheap or for free. Then keep complaining about errors and problems they face, lack of support, etc. The problem is that they don't get a good profession to develop a new software for them, they just keep using it and complaining.

Users also don't like to help in development. It's very common for me to develop something and users see me asking for user tests and explanations as a burden. They wanna give me a 5min talk about their requirements and never think about it again until it's finished and released, and think it's madness I needing to know about their work with more details then them :p and they even want me to do their work thinking it's the only way to understand it x.x
 
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