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Got a bait and switch job, what should i do

Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
Hi all,

I got a job back in November supposedly as a j2ee software engineer/architect position. Turns out the job is mostly convoluted process, discombobulation masked as "Agile", report writing, lots of CM work (Deployment write ups, change logs) and coordination between different groups. There is almost zero coding and no architecture. Since I started here back in November I've written maybe 50 lines of code total. The architecture is a complete mess, the app runs like total garbage (2-3 minute request response) and they show no interest in fixing any of the real fundamental problems.

The question, i have a job offer from a corporation that i know will give me good fulfilling work with minimal process but it's like a $15k pay cut, should i take it? Have i been there long enough to leave? Has anyone else been in a bait and switch situation?

Thanks,

-J
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61426
    
  67

Jay Mann wrote:Has anyone else been in a bait and switch situation?


Are you kidding me! If I had a dime...

No one can answer the question for you. But I can ask another question: would it be worth the pay cut to not have to hate going to work every day?


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Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
would it be worth the pay cut to not have to hate going to work every day?


That's the magic question, i really don't know. $15k is like $900 a month, that's a lot of money but the job really sucks seems like either way i lose.
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40

Jay Mann wrote:
That's the magic question, i really don't know. $15k is like $900 a month, that's a lot of money but the job really sucks seems like either way i lose.


Only you can answer which is more important to you. It is not a matter of you losing, it is a matter of which (based on your ideals) is losing less. And if there is no difference, then it really doesn't matter does it???

Henry


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Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
Henry Wong wrote:
Jay Mann wrote:
That's the magic question, i really don't know. $15k is like $900 a month, that's a lot of money but the job really sucks seems like either way i lose.


Only you can answer which is more important to you. It is not a matter of you losing, it is a matter of which (based on your ideals) is losing less. And if there is no difference, then it really doesn't matter does it???

Henry



Good point i never thought about it like that. Thanks for the help guys. I think I will probably take the pay cut for the better work.
Bear Bibeault
Author and ninkuma
Marshal

Joined: Jan 10, 2002
Posts: 61426
    
  67

Another question to ask yourself: which better prepares for the next job that you want?
Jayesh A Lalwani
Bartender

Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2402
    
  28

Another question for you. What will you need to give up if you take a 15k paycut. Is that worth being unhappy in your job?

Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

Jayesh A Lalwani wrote:Another question for you. What will you need to give up if you take a 15k paycut. Is that worth being unhappy in your job?



Wow there are many interesting perspectives here. The question that popped up in my head was 'If you could pay someone 15k to get rid of the feeling you have at work now, would you do it ?'.


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Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
Deepak Bala wrote:
Jayesh A Lalwani wrote:Another question for you. What will you need to give up if you take a 15k paycut. Is that worth being unhappy in your job?



Wow there are many interesting perspectives here. The question that popped up in my head was 'If you could pay someone 15k to get rid of the feeling you have at work now, would you do it ?'.


Looking at it from that perspective makes me want to stay...
Jayesh A Lalwani
Bartender

Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2402
    
  28

Right, this is what economists call opportunity cost. When you have several mutually exclusive options, you compare them by looking at the sacrifices that you will have to make in each option. What is the cost of not doing something? In your case, the higher paying job is asking you to sacrifice your own mental health + career growth. The lower paying job is asking you to sacrifice $15K. The problem is you cannot really put a price on your mental health+ career growth, right? Can you answer the question "Is $15K worth my mental health+career growth?" No. No one can. It's an apple to oranges comparison. Emotions are not fungible. So, you convert the $15K to something else that you can compare your emotions to.

So, what it boils down to:- what does $15K mean to you? Factor in taxes. Depending on how much you make it's really $10K-$12K. So, what value does $10K it carry to you? Does it mean that you can't pay your mortgage? Heck I would stay in a better paying difficult job to pay my mortgage. Does it mean that you have to give up 10 Starbuck cofees a day? Well then maybe you should change jobs so you have an incentive to cut down on the coffee. Does it mean that you have put back retirement by 5 years? To me, it will be totally worth it to work longer for 5 years if I enjoy the job. Does it mean you have to cut down on your gym membership and internet and cable? Now it starts getting iffy.

Personally, I wouldn;t sacrifice $15K for mental health and career growth, but it's really your own personal choice
Henry Wong
author
Sheriff

Joined: Sep 28, 2004
Posts: 18896
    
  40


Also, let's not forget about the "the grass is always greener ... " rule. Remember that the amount of information is different for the two choices. The lower pay offer is still "on the other side of the fence", and hence, being looked at with somewhat rosy glasses. You also need to make sure to not assume the same level of confidence for the two data sets.

Henry
Greg Charles
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 01, 2001
Posts: 2854
    
  11

1. They misrepresented the job to you.
2. You don't like the work you're doing.
3. They still use the term J2EE.

If it were me, I'd take the other offer and never look back.


@Henry -- You've demonstrated the dangers of mixing metaphors. Green grass through rose-colored glasses would look black.
Jayesh A Lalwani
Bartender

Joined: Jan 17, 2008
Posts: 2402
    
  28

Greg Charles wrote:


@Henry -- You've demonstrated the dangers of mixing metaphors. Green grass through rose-colored glasses would look black.


Yeah mixing metaphors is like burning the bridge before you coming to it.
James Boswell
Bartender

Joined: Nov 09, 2011
Posts: 1030
    
    5

Another perspective...

In 5 years time, what would you like to be doing? This is your target. Once you have answered that, ask yourself which job makes the path to that target easier.

I took a paycut about 7 years ago so that I would get the opportunity to explore more areas of enterprise Java. I haven't for one second regretted that decision.
Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
Thanks for the input everyone! I'm going to talk to the other company soon. I'll let you know what happens.
Greg Charles
Sheriff

Joined: Oct 01, 2001
Posts: 2854
    
  11

Bear Bibeault wrote:Another question to ask yourself: which better prepares for the next job that you want?


Deepak Bala
Bartender

Joined: Feb 24, 2006
Posts: 6662
    
    5

Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4742
    
    7

Have you tried negotiating the pay with the other company? Certainly, if you think you're worth it, there's nothing wrong with asking for more. If they're as good as you think they are then making the deal a little more attractive to you would show some sincerity on their part, I would think.


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Jay Mann
Greenhorn

Joined: Mar 19, 2013
Posts: 6
Junilu Lacar wrote:Have you tried negotiating the pay with the other company? Certainly, if you think you're worth it, there's nothing wrong with asking for more. If they're as good as you think they are then making the deal a little more attractive to you would show some sincerity on their part, I would think.


They are actually hiring me in at the top of their pay grade. They just don't pay as much because it is a government job.
Junilu Lacar
Bartender

Joined: Feb 26, 2001
Posts: 4742
    
    7

Jay Mann wrote:They just don't pay as much because it is a government job.

Yikes. I've worked as consultant in government agencies and in my experience, these are not environments that are very conducive to learning new things and getting good, relevant experience. If you're looking to pad your resume with another job, that's fine. However, you'll most likely end up wanting out of there in a few months, which is how it was with me. On the other hand, if you are lucky and get in with the right group of tech folks-- and there are some of those in the government, mind you --then it just might be the kind of experience you're looking for. Maybe I was just unlucky in the gigs I got with the government.
Maneesh Godbole
Saloon Keeper

Joined: Jul 26, 2007
Posts: 10451
    
    8

As a wise man rightly said, love your job, not your company.
The company is in the business of making money. Never ever forget that. All the rest is crap. It's high time you realized you too are in the business of making money. If you think you got a better opportunity...go for it. Bait and switch is an old game which the employers have mastered long time back.


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Ted North
Ranch Hand

Joined: Jan 02, 2012
Posts: 193
    
    1

What if the new job is also a bait and switch job?!?!?!?!?! Or they deploy you to debug something on the front line and its dangerous and the open-source community does not want to speak with you anymore?!?!?


 
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